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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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23 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

So, you're telling me you don't like some freak randomly tossing a nade and knowing exactly where you were without seeing you? Preposterous. 

Tell that to 343i

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7 hours ago, JORGE said:

I wish there were more maps for H2A, because I feel like that's a decent middle ground between H3 and H5.

Feels like a classic Halo in terms of movement/setups/weapons (screw nade hitmarkers and weapon timers) while not having BR spread like H3 does. IMO the CLG vs EG matchups in H2A were some of the most entertaining Halo series ever.

I have one major issue with H2A besides the ones you mentioned... the sniper. It is WAY too easy to use (arguably even more so than H5). This not only makes great sniper plays less exciting (because anyone can make them), but also allows for a team to completely lock down an entire map like Sanc with almost no effective counter if they manage to get both snipers. The difficulty of the sniper is one of the absolute best features about H3, which significantly adds to its competitiveness and its spectator experience.

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Halo 2 Anniversary MP art style is fucking awful.  The Campaign however easily has the best art style in the entire franchise.

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1 hour ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Halo 2 Anniversary MP art style is fucking awful.  The Campaign however easily has the best art style in the entire franchise.

Agreed.

Picture the same campaign visual remaster on all (of the good) original H2 maps where the game plays exactly as you remember :simms: it like it does in the campaign. That is the H2A the world deserved.  

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1 hour ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Halo 2 Anniversary MP art style is fucking awful.  The Campaign however easily has the best art style in the entire franchise.

HARD disagree on the MP art style, I thought it was awesome (to each their own though).

 

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19 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

HARD disagree on the MP art style, I thought it was awesome (to each their own though).

 

I think its pretty however it suffers from some of the same sort of glare along with certain colors or silhouettes blending into the surroundings just like in H4/H5. I really want everything to try and nail what Halo 3 did where you just instantly saw everything relevant in nearly every situation at a glance. All of the colors just pop and nothing really gets lost in the visual noise unlike pretty much every other game in the series at times. I'm not even really sure how to describe it but whoever decided on the visual direction for H3 is a genius. It works so well for an FPS

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10 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I think its pretty however it suffers from some of the same sort of glare along with certain colors or silhouettes blending into the surroundings just like in H4/H5. I really want everything to try and nail what Halo 3 did where you just instantly saw everything relevant in nearly every situation at a glance. All of the colors just pop and nothing really gets lost in the visual noise unlike pretty much every other game in the series at times. I'm not even really sure how to describe it but whoever decided on the visual direction for H3 is a genius. It works so well for an FPS

Very much this. 

No more shaky cam or blinding lens flare for the love of all that is holy.

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Yeah, so I think H3 would be loads more interesting to spectate if I could more consistently tell how many shots hit a player. I'm guessing that could be achieved via hitmarkers or just by having a more consistent BR.

Halo 2 is my favorite to play, so I think that might be why I have that strong preference for consistent BR performance. Which probably ties into why I enjoy spectating H5 to some degree due to the consistent magnum, where you can easily tell how many shots out of five a player has taken.

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2 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

HARD disagree on the MP art style, I thought it was awesome (to each their own though).

Easy agree. MP and campaign were both great, but I have a thing for the sexiness of MP assets. Good way to have detail without losing it due to overdesign. And they even kept Halo 2's style of stony Forerunner assets for everything but one map. Of course, while I think the weird shift to stone was dumb, the actual assets themselves were cool. 

Just now, Cu Master said:

Yeah, so I think H3 would be loads more interesting to spectate if I could more consistently tell how many shots hit a player. I'm guessing that could be achieved via hitmarkers or just by having a more consistent BR.

Halo 2 is my favorite to play, so I think that might be why I have that strong preference for consistent BR performance. Which probably ties into why I enjoy spectating H5 to some degree due to the consistent magnum, where you can easily tell how many shots out of five a player has taken.

Probably. Given it isn't fun to watch two sponges smack each other with sometimes little to no feedback during fights. Of course, consistency would alter the course of gameplay past just basic feedback for the users in a beneficial way.

Lowkey makes me keep wishing H2/H2A made a circuit return, lol. I don't play H2 much, but I vastly prefer it to H3, and it'd have been cool to see it return for the first major time in 10 years.

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24 minutes ago, GoldenboyFTW said:

I have a few asks for the next game but if there’s something I appreciate, after playing a bunch of H3, is how they handled shot confirmation. In a game like COD, hit markers made sense. You could have done something visually (like blood coming out of the player a la PUBG) but in order to hit that “arcade feel” hit markers made sense.

In a game like Halo it doesn’t. You have the shields which can act as a clear representation of a player being hit or being weakened. It was subtle yet very obvious. I understand why the change was made (because your average player is used to it from other games and not just COD) but it felt like something unique to Halo and even Fortnite handles it well with seeing the shield pop, as well as the damage number. 

I just hope we go back to something like we had in H2/H3 because it was unique but not overbearing and it added to the experience in a Sci-Fi FPS game.

I agree, EXCEPT you can't get fully accurate feedback when you're using a BR.  In CE it's a non-issue, and with H5 it wouldn't be a big deal because there are only two options (either you landed the shot or you didn't), whereas with H3 you could hit 1-3 shots per burst and it can screw with things. If infinite continues with a magnum start then by all means take them out, but if they go back to it being BR starts then I actually like them.

 

Nade hitmarkers are ass though. 

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15 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

If they removed spread, sped up the actual burst, cut out projectiles, and basically made it function like a NB DMR with a BR's aesthetic, maybe. The BR not having insane magnetism is "fine", but it still has a lot more aim assist than people seem to realize. However, leading is a dumb mechanic in general. Especially with latency still being a thing, and the fact we're on consoles. Leading in a game with aim assist is kinda its own oxymoron, lol. Your reticle's pushed to your opponent, but even in RRR, you may need to tug your reticle off them to fire properly, which is also stupid when you think about it. You'll be rewarded for aiming off target. I should have to account for my actual aim only, not be rewarded by not actually aiming where my opponent is, but instead, where they may be, while accounting for things potentially outside of my control, like the fact my burst is slow as dicks, among other things, like movement. One could argue that the factor of predicting your opponent's path is skillful, I argue it just makes gunfighting less intuitive and arguably unpredictable when you're being forced to aim off target at any longer range. And it only gets worse the farther out you go. 

And the sniper is also easier than (whew) people give it credit for. It's not a no scope machine like Halo 4's Beam Rifle, but it's still not really hard. Same for CE's sniper, which I find easier than Halo 3's. No recoil and a pretty quick fire rate amplify it. Then again, any weapon basically two shotting people to the body isn't satisfying in concept to me. Lowkey, no sniper in Halo is hard, or skillful, lol. Some suck hard, some suck less.

Burst fire is inherently less skillful because you can just swipe for the final headshot and you get partial credit. Also with 11/12 required for a kill you cant even argue that hitting a perfect kill is more skillful

Yes, leading shots is more skillful. Yes its less intutive, yes its not consistent because you have to predict. Reading your opponents strafe is part of that skill, fighting the aim assist is part of that skill, knowing where to place the crosshair without direct visuals is part of the skill. Hitscan lacks all of that. It has no depth other than can you put the crosshair on the person which is actually pretty easy. Its why pc games either have hitscan and high movement speed or projectile and low moving speed. Or its hitscan like but has spread patterns. Halo has always had low movement speeds so sure... we can have higher movement speeds but i’d argue is that really halo. You have to predict whether your opponent takes route a or route b. Being unpredictable is 1/3 of halos skillgap. Execution and teamwork are the other two.

The sniper on mcc ce is ********. Its not similar to the og ce sniper... at all. Its hitscan and the hitboxers are bigger.  It also feels easier to aim/place your reticle (so more aim assist). If you ever want to feel how it aims, we could set up a game on 360/og over xlan. You can be host or offhost if ur close enough to SC. Or watch an offhost montage i guess but im sure theyre all 240p. Aiming on the same plane is easy enough but aiming on different planes, say shotguns to camo on dammy is really hard. You also have a two shot long range weapon thats impossible to aim unscoped vs a pistol that 3-6shots but hitting the headshot is super important when you only have a window for 1 shot. Without a sniper in any game, it makes parts of the map really safe. Its the counter to high ground advantage, at the cost of being hard to use. 

 

 

And for the current topic. In 2008-2010 when i played 8 hours a day, i always knew, whether off host or onhost l, how many bullets i landed based on how the shield flare. It would flare differently if you only landed 1, 2, or 3. Now idk if its because i just dont play enough, or its just mcc being glitch, but I cant tell shit off shield flare anymore. I feel like shield flare is client side now. I’ll think i didnt reg anyshot but then my teammate kills him in one. 

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4 hours ago, Cu Master said:

Yeah, so I think H3 would be loads more interesting to spectate if I could more consistently tell how many shots hit a player. I'm guessing that could be achieved via hitmarkers or just by having a more consistent BR.

Halo 2 is my favorite to play, so I think that might be why I have that strong preference for consistent BR performance. Which probably ties into why I enjoy spectating H5 to some degree due to the consistent magnum, where you can easily tell how many shots out of five a player has taken.

Interesting. To me the shield animations in H3 accomplish this better than any other title--shields get brighter as they get close to breaking, then the character model have lights that get brighter as their health goes down (just remembered the old "blinking" callouts that people used before "absolute" lol).

So it's sort of indirect, you can tell how weak someone is getting from the shots. I've always found hitmarkers distracting for some reason but to each their own.

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9 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Hitmarkers are good for super accurate information conveyance. If I shoot someone with a BR, I can know exactly how many bullets in a burst hit. Good in H4/5/2A. I feel shield flare can be good, but is also pretty general to the point that you only know how much damage you do once the shield drops. Especially in games like Halo 3, which ironically has prevalent shield flare. If I fight someone and die and don't break the guy's shield, I'll have no idea as to how much damage I did. Could be 3 shots worth, or 3 and a bit as some of my bursts drop bullets. Get the like for flare, but hitmarkers are better for explicitly showing your dealt damage.

 

H3 does the best job with this. What are you talking about? The shield gets brighter and brighter until it pops, and it shows you lights on the knees that get brighter as the shield gets closer to popping. You can look at a guy that has been shot and the shield has stopped flaring but hasn’t started recharging, and still know almost exactly how weak he is. 

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2 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

H3 does the best job with this. What are you talking about? The shield gets brighter and brighter until it pops, and it shows you lights on the knees that get brighter as the shield gets closer to popping. You can look at a guy that has been shot and the shield has stopped flaring but hasn’t started recharging, and still know almost exactly how weak he is. 

Also lights on the back.

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Halo 5 gun hitmarkers did a way better job conveying exactly how much damage you've dealt. You always knew EXACTLY what was hitting. Sure halo 3 can have the b3st version of shield flare but that doesn't come close to the accuracy of hitmarkers. Plus you could have both. 

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I always thought Reach had by far the best shield effects. Admittedly is made better by the fact that the weapons you use the most (DMR/Magnum/Needle Rifle) are single shot, but even when using the AR, you get the perfect amount of visual representation of how much damage you've done. The shield would grow, expanding to be further off the player, and pop like a balloon. This is how it's done in 4 and 5 as well but it's very exaggerated in Reach, the shields expand farther off the player and the pop is extremely obvious and satisfying. Furthermore, the effect stands out a lot against the rest of the game's graphics, which are not full of similar lighting effects blowing everything the fuck out.

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53 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Halo 5 gun hitmarkers did a way better job conveying exactly how much damage you've dealt. You always knew EXACTLY what was hitting. Sure halo 3 can have the b3st version of shield flare but that doesn't come close to the accuracy of hitmarkers. Plus you could have both. 

Exactly.  If it's a single shot weapon then sure, shield flare is enough.  When you start making it a 3 burst weapon with spread and where that 1 bullet can mean the difference between getting a melee kill or not then hitmarkers are a good thing imo.  

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2 hours ago, Trajan said:

Interesting. To me the shield animations in H3 accomplish this better than any other title--shields get brighter as they get close to breaking, then the character model have lights that get brighter as their health goes down (just remembered the old "blinking" callouts that people used before "absolute" lol).

So it's sort of indirect, you can tell how weak someone is getting from the shots. I've always found hitmarkers distracting for some reason but to each their own.

Ooh interesting, thanks for the heads up. I never played Halo 3 much back in the day because I didn't have a 360 until way later :(

But yeah, like @Trespa5s said above, it's more about the consistency of the BR because I find it difficult to tell how many shots hit a player in H3, which is kind of frustrating

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