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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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When "map position/lines of sight" and "quick reaction time" start being used as a merit of skillful gameplay...

 

Come on...while I can agree CoD can be fun to watch at times (as any game as popular will be when the crowd gets going), I just can't get behind seeing it as a good competitive game.

I mean, that's fine—I agree with you, and I also don't enjoy watching OW, Starcraft, or Fortnite—but it doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters whether teams sign up to compete and spectators show up to watch (and spend $$). By that standard, all those games have a have (or have had) healthy competitive scenes. We can talk mechanics all day but let's not begrudge other games their success.

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I mean, that's fine—I agree with you, and I also don't enjoy watching OW, Starcraft, or Fortnite—but it doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters whether teams sign up to compete and spectators show up to watch (and spend $$). By that standard, all those games have a have (or have had) healthy competitive scenes. We can talk mechanics all day but let's not begrudge other games their success.

 

Oh yeah I totally agree that it's successful and the CWL is great, I was only talking about those specific arguments as "skillful".

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Oh yeah I totally agree that it's successful and the CWL is great, I was only talking about those specific arguments as "skillful".

 

It's always been a debate about the word competitive and whether or not competitive = skillful. Personally, I don't feel they are the same thing. We can differentiate mechanics from competition.

 

All shooters have some form of map control/positioning and emphasis on reaction time. No matter how simplistic the "reaction time" aspect is of it, it is a measurable skill. Some games are very deep in terms of mechanics and metagame and still require fast reaction times.

 

CoD's main gap in skill, in my opinion, comes from what I listed. Map control and rotations as well as insane reaction times. The main emphasis is on the reaction times, and when you have 256 teams playing a game like that it surely pushes this emphasis to the limit. That's my main point with CoD. My overall point was people undermining other games and gamers from their armchairs. Sure, I think CoD is easy compared to other games. I'd even go as far as to say I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to learn it's meta but I don't believe I can outclass these guys when it comes to reacting. As I get older they are only going to get worse.

 

I'm just tired of seeing people completely undermine others games while doing little to support what they enjoy. I'm equally tired of those defending their games as the end all be all of competition when they don't support their own title.

 

How much of a skill gap does a Hot Dog eating contest have? I sure as hell don't know but despite what I assume is an incredibly tiny skill gap in a competition like that, it has thousands of competitors yet Kobayshi reigned king for years. Am I going to view him in the same light as Fedor or MJ? No but I'm still gonna respect his craft.

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To be fair, Titanfall was the first to do the advanced movement thing, and it feels a ton like CoD because it's the old CoD4/MW2 dev team. 

And its still the best imo. No game has done that type of movement better than Titanfall 1.  The Halo peeps need to look at titanfall as a cautionary tale and launch Infinite in the spring.  Just like Titanfall 2, Halo infinite is not in a place where it can compete with everything else that is going to be coming out in the fall.  Its going to need to be complete, really fucking good, and have room to breathe and (re)gather an audience.

 

this is the cringiest shit i've read in a while

 

Jj9eaLV.png

 

Initially i thought you just google searched "Neckbeard"

 

This game looks a lot like titanfall 2. The movement, the shooting, it's clear

 

If by "Looks like titanfall" you mean in the same way that Titanfall "looks like CoD" then yeah, sure.

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And its still the best imo. No game has done that type of movement better than Titanfall 1.  The Halo peeps need to look at titanfall as a cautionary tale and launch Infinite in the spring.  Just like Titanfall 2, Halo infinite is not in a place where it can compete with everything else that is going to be coming out in the fall.  Its going to need to be complete, really fucking good, and have room to breathe and (re)gather an audience.

If we were talking this past fall/upcoming spring, I would have agreed.  Next year though, there's no Battlefield title, CoD goes back to Infinity Ward (who has struggled with their last 2 titles) and there probably won't be anything so big from R* or Bethesda that it would completely envelop Halo.  Spring is still the better option, but next fall won't be nearly as fatal as this fall would have been. 

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If we were talking this past fall/upcoming spring, I would have agreed.  Next year though, there's no Battlefield title, CoD goes back to Infinity Ward (who has struggled with their last 2 titles) and there probably won't be anything so big from R* or Bethesda that it would completely envelop Halo.  Spring is still the better option, but next fall won't be nearly as fatal as this fall would have been. 

 

Yes this is true.  If they tried to release this fall.... it would have gotten someone fired lol.  I'm hoping for like March 2020

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It's always been a debate about the word competitive and whether or not competitive = skillful. Personally, I don't feel they are the same thing. We can differentiate mechanics from competition.

 

All shooters have some form of map control/positioning and emphasis on reaction time. No matter how simplistic the "reaction time" aspect is of it, it is a measurable skill. Some games are very deep in terms of mechanics and metagame and still require fast reaction times.

 

CoD's main gap in skill, in my opinion, comes from what I listed. Map control and rotations as well as insane reaction times. The main emphasis is on the reaction times, and when you have 256 teams playing a game like that it surely pushes this emphasis to the limit. That's my main point with CoD. My overall point was people undermining other games and gamers from their armchairs. Sure, I think CoD is easy compared to other games. I'd even go as far as to say I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to learn it's meta but I don't believe I can outclass these guys when it comes to reacting. As I get older they are only going to get worse.

 

I'm just tired of seeing people completely undermine others games while doing little to support what they enjoy. I'm equally tired of those defending their games as the end all be all of competition when they don't support their own title.

 

How much of a skill gap does a Hot Dog eating contest have? I sure as hell don't know but despite what I assume is an incredibly tiny skill gap in a competition like that, it has thousands of competitors yet Kobayshi reigned king for years. Am I going to view him in the same light as Fedor or MJ? No but I'm still gonna respect his craft.

I mean, personally my standards are higher than dudes downing hotdogs, and no I don’t respect the craft hahaha. I think that’s where we differ. But yeah, it depends on your perception of “competitive”. I don’t think CoD’s main skill gap as you describe is intricate enough to claim as skillful. If it were on PC with less aim assist and all that, like CS or something, then I’d change my opinion. Still fun to watch though sometimes and I’m not undermining it’s success.

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Source? I suggested something like this before as an idea I would like to see, I would love to see it tried out.

was told by employee at the last 2v2 Microsoft tourney

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I mean, personally my standards are higher than dudes downing hotdogs, and no I don’t respect the craft hahaha. I think that’s where we differ. But yeah, it depends on your perception of “competitive”. I don’t think CoD’s main skill gap as you describe is intricate enough to claim as skillful. If it were on PC with less aim assist and all that, like CS or something, then I’d change my opinion. Still fun to watch though sometimes and I’m not undermining it’s success.

what skills does halo have over cod? they both rely on map positioning, spawn influencing, obj control, and being able to quickly snap your gun to hit shots. if you dont like cod, thats fine and your opinion is your own, but to say it isnt skillful is objectively wrong

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what skills does halo have over cod? they both rely on map positioning, spawn influencing, obj control, and being able to quickly snap your gun to hit shots. if you dont like cod, thats fine and your opinion is your own, but to say it isnt skillful is objectively wrong

CoD is skillful, yes.  

 

Why Halo is more skillful than CoD is that 

 

1)  Halo requires you not only snap on to target fast, but to be able to keep your reticle on target for longer than a split second (admittedly BO4 has improved this a lot, but it's still much more skilled in Halo) as well as having to aim for the head as opposed to being able to hit anywhere on the body.

 

2)  Grenades.  There is an art to grenades that isn't present in CoD (especially BO4 considering most people don't even use them).  In Halo, a shitty grenader (like myself) will have a much tougher time in gunfights than someone who can consistently land grenades at the feet of enemies they're fighting.  

 

3)  Power-ups/weapons.  Relatively self explanatory.  The need to time and set up to acquire them is an entire dynamic in Halo that has never existed in CoD.

 

So yes, CoD is absolutely skillful.  If I'm put in a lobby against OpTic, EUnite, or nV on BO4, I'm gonna get my ass reamed out; but it's still going to be less of a reaming than if you put me in a lobby against Tox, Splyce, or Rec on H5. 

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Then you've never watched two OWL teams play 2CP. It gets absolutely insane.

 

Its "artificial" hype due to 2cp spawns on 2nd and relies on snowballing. Otherwise you're getting a 5min fight on 2nd.

 

 

No comp ow player likes 2cp. Its the breakout of ow. Its pretty universally hated, but blizz refuses to do anything about it/remove it.

 

 

 

Jayne has been doing customs with a ban system recently of high lv ladder players and pros. Guess what gametype has been banned in every custom.

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So, I'm just wondering.. Are there any good places to go online that do Halo 3 4v4 or 2v2 Ladders? GB is kinda dead it seems, but I've been out of the scene for a while. It's possible I may be missing something. I'm so excited to see Halo coming back!

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P.S. I am always cooking up something for Halo though with the team   :simms: 

 

Something... Saucey?

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To be perfectly candid Beyond has been operating Halo events for 5 years: 99% of these events were free to enter, featured cash prizing, with most of them being live streamed, not to mention working with major companies in the space like ASTRO Gaming, Elgato, DXRacer, (and one of my personal favorites: working with Gamestop to land TOX on the homepage of Gamestop.com) all of whom cross-promoted our Halo events to their large audiences on social media at the benefit of the Halo esports community and Beyond.

 

qYJLpKhg.png

 

https://twitter.com/BeyondJoseph/status/985895263398019072

 

Through our teams independent hard work (nobody running interference or speaking on our behalf to land partnerships) we were able to bring these brands into the Halo community and organically create money-making opportunities (by the thousands) while most involved were being paid to be there (is anyone from ESL still around, going hard for the Halo scene, for example?). That entire time if you recall, we had Adam/MLG on the forums because they cared about the community - even though they weren't operating anything official, I respect that and can relate to the feeling of always having a connection to the scene no matter what.

 

The HCS/343 team reached out to certain Tournament organizers and content creators before they went live with their HCS Grassroots Program announcement - Beyond was not involved in any of these preliminary discussions and we were not aware of the announcement, which was disappointing, to say the least, but I suppose not entirely surprising.

 

So to answer the question: will Beyond apply to the grassroots program. Doubtful.

 

The Grassroots program has some great benefits, and I hope it works out for everyone involved. We are always open to a partnership, cross promotion, etc. but at this point, I think we are in a great place as far as prizing and promotion are concerned (of course prizing can always be increased, but you get the idea) - and on a personal note I think it is clear that we weren't contacted for a reason regarding the HCS Grassroots Program (whatever that may be, I am unsure). Regardless, I am excited to continue to expand Beyond into new territory with our team and tackle new challenges in esports.

 

P.S. I am always cooking up something for Halo though with the teamdan:simms:

I've gotta say, I too thought it was weird, but not surprising for TB left out of the originating cast. This place has certainly proven capable of fairing well w/o any sort of official support. It sure would be cool to see some them throw some weight behind the long running, most active competitive halo community.

 

Oh well, maybe one day they'll open up.

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Totally random fun tidbit that I could always talk about, but never did because it obviously didnt happen:

 

I was working with Che and Josh Holmes on Beyond BR/Pistol skins in Halo 5. They departed the studio shortly after our discussions and it never happened - may have been staff bandwidth issues in there adding additional skins as well iirc.

 

Would have been cool though.

Would've sold like damn hotcakes.

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