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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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5 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

You know what, just keep the zero g area open (but remove shield doors) and don't put any power items out there and it should be fine. Any attempts to block it off but keep the pathing with teleporter cheese/forged walkways will create as many problems as it solves. Plus it looks like shit.

not sure if trolling or not

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7 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

You know what, just keep the zero g area open (but remove shield doors) and don't put any power items out there and it should be fine. Any attempts to block it off but keep the pathing with teleporter cheese/forged walkways will create as many problems as it solves.

Or we could forge a sort of runway/room thats just zero G. We have forge pieces. It doesn't have to be open or closed. It can have a small but focus path

maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

aw shit I completely missed your last sentence. disregard me.

 

tho still think it could work if done right.

 

right?? new assets

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there are very limited pieces you can use on Anchor 9, the pics I linked honestly don't look too bad and a teleporter shouldn't be all that cheesy, you don't want/need teleporters from base to mid anyways, the bridges are fine

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1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Forged cut ups of Dev maps look awful and play awful.

But Bungie literally made a version without space after people told them how stupid it was. It looks good, just need a few routes fixed so "Sword Room" doesn't become too easy to hold down.

Space sections are not only gimmicky they are also insanely easy to camp because they grant immunity to grenades and you become a super easy target trying to push in. No bueno.

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1 hour ago, Knighty Knight said:

The next Dreamhack will most likely have one and UGC probably has something in the works as well. Everything else will probably be online unless there is a big surprise from the old MLG team

This.  By old MLG team, you mean Adam & co.'s startup right?  Not MLG iteself? 

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

But Bungie literally made a version without space after people told them how stupid it was. It looks good, just need a few routes fixed so "Sword Room" doesn't become too easy to hold down.

Space sections are not only gimmicky they are also insanely easy to camp because they grant immunity to grenades and you become a super easy target trying to push in. No bueno.

Bungie made a version of A9 without shield doors but not one without the zero gravity. If a version that kept the outdoor section but removed the zero grav (maybe using lifts instead) was possible through mod support, I would be okay with that. But cutting up a Dev map to the point that you're blocking off entire major sections of the map and filling the gaps with forged walkways defeats the entire purpose of using a Dev map. If you have to bend over that far backwards, its not going to work no matter what you do.

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Very informed opinion, maybe we should remove the stuff that blocks the space area on Zealot as well given that you shared this wisdom.

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Unpopular Opinion. I always thought A9 was fine after they removed the shield doors.  Going out there was a calculated risk. 

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2 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

there are very limited pieces you can use on Anchor 9, the pics I linked honestly don't look too bad and a teleporter shouldn't be all that cheesy, you don't want/need teleporters from base to mid anyways, the bridges are fine

 PC. Even xbox has new assets available to use... Hell, zealot has replaced the sandbags with actual dev assets, same for coutdowns health ledge. Sandbags were replaced with an actual piece.

 

edit: actually from some xbox gameplay, looks like xbox still has sandbags on countdown. could just be an older build/map obviously.

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I was not in the flight but the Zealot "dev piece" might just be a forge piece from Penance and the jump up piece on Countdown is 100% a forge piece from the Headlong remake from CE anniversary DLC. I wouldn't expect them to put too much effort into additional stuff we can use, sure we might be able to mod some stuff ourselves on PC but I doubt they will give us better tools for making a map pool if they are set on using mlg v7 anyways...

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With Zealot you can get away with it. Blocking space doesn't hurt the map's flow in any way. All you do is place a tele at gold to shortcut the act of lifting from ground level to space then dropping back down to 2. On Anchor 9, blocking space creates a bunch of dead ends that you either have to leave be or fix with some sloppy, inorganic rerouting to keep the map afloat.

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3 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

I was not in the flight but the Zealot "dev piece" might just be a forge piece from Penance and the jump up piece on Countdown is 100% a forge piece from the Headlong remake from CE anniversary DLC. I wouldn't expect them to put too much effort into additional stuff we can use, sure we might be able to mod some stuff ourselves on PC but I doubt they will give us better tools for making a map pool if they are set on using mlg v7 anyways...

Those settings are a bit of an interesting situation. Unlike H3 where they'd been iterated on to the point of small changes being the only real options left for the most part those Reach settings are significantly less polished. The reason is because a lot of the people around in the testing and the conversations around those settings were focused on an entirely different game that included bloom and sprint specifically. If people made the effort and showed their reasoning I think there are some easy revisions to be made/tested. I have no idea who you would bring that to these days but I do know that if Reach had continued and the old process for those settings continued you would've seen at least a couple of more iterations. Things like Penance were pretty obviously not working in tournament gameplay at the time and it needed adjustments if not outright removal

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16 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

With Zealot you can get away with it. Blocking space doesn't hurt the map's flow in any way. All you do is place a tele at gold to shortcut the act of lifting from ground level to space then dropping back down to 2. On Anchor 9, blocking space creates a bunch of dead ends that you either have to leave be or fix with some sloppy, inorganic rerouting to keep the map afloat.

I just had to disagree with your statement that modifying dev maps with forge pieces automatically makes them trash, on Anchor 9 the sections that are cut off are very minor imo, we are speaking about one platform on the side of each base where you could make a low gravity jump to that middle space section which is still part of the map, you just cannot walk out of it.
But we don't have to decide this stuff right now anyways, I would say if gold pro customs happen we can test multiple versions of the map, even with space and just get a feel for how it plays out! Ultimately you can only make a good map in theory if you never test and I am looking forward to giving multiple maps ignored by mlg another chance.

4 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Those settings are a bit of an interesting situation. Unlike H3 where they'd be iterated on to the point of small changes being the only real options left for the most part those Reach settings are significantly less polished. The reason is because a lot of the people around in the testing and the conversations around those settings were focused on an entirely different game that included bloom and sprint specifically. If people made the effort and showed their reasoning I think there are some easy revisions to be made/tested. I have no idea who you would bring that to these days but I do know that if Reach had continued and the old process for those settings continued you would've seen at least a couple of more iterations. Things like Penance were pretty obviously not working in tournament gameplay at the time and it needed adjustments if not outright removal

Yeah, changes to Penance and Battle Canyon are the most obvious flaws map wise. I already brought up a 4sk DMR and Powerhouse a couple of times but those would cause a bigger debate while the 2 HCE remakes are already in the pool and could be improved with some simple changes.
Also brought up K25 Sanc a billion times too but it just is the better Sanc remake than the one MLG used. The way they did OS on Pit was also kinda lame btw.
Not sure if it was the bloom and sprint testing crew that lead to bad decisions, I think it was mainly H4 cutting off any debate at the time since those setting were only played at 1 major event and I think AGL had different settings using a map called Splashes and a Narrows remake too when they ran ZBNS Reach.

I kinda doubt we can have any impact on settings by now since "people remember them being this way" or something, change the settings now and people will complain anyways, but tbf gold pro is where it is at for me anyways and those settings were always evolving being purely community driven.

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26 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

I just had to disagree with your statement that modifying dev maps with forge pieces automatically makes them trash, on Anchor 9 the sections that are cut off are very minor imo, we are speaking about one platform on the side of each base where you could make a low gravity jump to that middle space section which is still part of the map, you just cannot walk out of it.
But we don't have to decide this stuff right now anyways, I would say if gold pro customs happen we can test multiple versions of the map, even with space and just get a feel for how it plays out! Ultimately you can only make a good map in theory if you never test and I am looking forward to giving multiple maps ignored by mlg another chance.

Yeah, changes to Penance and Battle Canyon are the most obvious flaws map wise. I already brought up a 4sk DMR and Powerhouse a couple of times but those would cause a bigger debate while the 2 HCE remakes are already in the pool and could be improved with some simple changes.
Also brought up K25 Sanc a billion times too but it just is the better Sanc remake than the one MLG used. The way they did OS on Pit was also kinda lame btw.
Not sure if it was the bloom and sprint testing crew that lead to bad decisions, I think it was mainly H4 cutting off any debate at the time since those setting were only played at 1 major event and I think AGL had different settings using a map called Splashes and a Narrows remake too when they ran ZBNS Reach.

I kinda doubt we can have any impact on settings by now since "people remember them being this way" or something, change the settings now and people will complain anyways, but tbf gold pro is where it is at for me anyways and those settings were always evolving being purely community driven.

Yeah specifically Penance and BC have bad layouts. I argued a lot once upon a time for the carbines to be raised to match the original sanc ESPECIALLY with the removal of bloom making it so much easier to cross map on top of the general ease of sniping base to hut etc. I'm not certain the correct base movement speed was selected either. Higher speed is nice but it just kind of feels low quality with the slippery feeling that comes with it but we're really just fighting bad map design with poor tools on that front. Not sure there is a good decision on that last bit between 110 and 120 movement speed (343 could actually fix this if they wanted to but not us). Gravity being increased is also a pretty strange way to go about adjusting jet packs and it'll give unfamiliar players a strange feeling but they might not realize why. That's definitely another spot where 343 could help out if they wanted to really get involved. Another cool thing they could do is give us an OS that looks like OS to match the custom power up we used

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2 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

This.  By old MLG team, you mean Adam & co.'s startup right?  Not MLG iteself? 

Correct. Esports Engine! 

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It bothers me how excited I am for Reach's re-release. I had a hate-love relationship with Reach but I have a hefty group of casual friends that are very excited so it's hard not to be swept up in their enthusiasm. 

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4 hours ago, Shekkles said:

It bothers me how excited I am for Reach's re-release. I had a hate-love relationship with Reach but I have a hefty group of casual friends that are very excited so it's hard not to be swept up in their enthusiasm. 

I'm pretty apathetic to Reach. In the same boat, my excitement comes from the fact that I'll be able to round the gang back up and play dumb shit like Speed Halo all night again, or just grind Infection and BTB for hours on end, and it's not going to cost me $100 fucken dollars.

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39 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

not going to cost me $100 fucken dollars.

 

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13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

I kinda doubt we can have any impact on settings by now since "people remember them being this way" or something, change the settings now and people will complain anyways

The problem with the grassroots movement is that there is no single organization handling competitive halo. This makes it incredibly hard to make any changes to things like maps and gametypes because you have to get virtually the entire community to agree simultaneously. Hence why we still have the much hated Construct TS gametype throughout a year of H3 MCC. 

If changes to Reach settings are going to advance beyond the previously used v7, someone needs to run a tournament with updated maps/settings right away in order to set the precedent. If the first Reach tournament uses v7 maps/settings, I guarantee every tournament after that will follow suit.

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Gold pro is better than v7 yall but its the streamers we gotta convince not beyond forum users. 

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19 minutes ago, II AdamanT II said:

The problem with the grassroots movement is that there is no single organization handling competitive halo. This makes it incredibly hard to make any changes to things like maps and gametypes because you have to get virtually the entire community to agree simultaneously. Hence why we still have the much hated Construct TS gametype throughout a year of H3 MCC. 

If changes to Reach settings are going to advance beyond the previously used v7, someone needs to run a tournament with updated maps/settings right away in order to set the precedent. If the first Reach tournament uses v7 maps/settings, I guarantee every tournament after that will follow suit.

That's what I thought, and despite being online the twitch rivals matches already used v7.
Actually fairly excited to go over settings and maps again from Dec 3rd forward, always felt like you can improve the way a Halo title feels a lot with the right maps and tweaks but I would have no idea how to get in contact with people/orgs who run events and I don't know why they would be interested unless there is some known name in the scene backing up the changes.
I am assuming it is just as much personal connections as it was back in the day but if anybody knows better feel free to let me know!

2 minutes ago, Riddler said:

Gold pro is better than v7 yall but its the streamers we gotta convince not beyond forum users. 

Not sure if that will be enough, Naded is currently the biggest streamer that sticks with Halo and I will put in a lot of effort to make him try those settings (we have to at least fix some minor issues first tho), he already agreed that 2 snipers on BC play like ass for slayer.
Not sure if just getting people on social media asking for those settings would have an impact tho, probably really depends on what person is in charge of the settings, and if I may say so the change from Bo5 extended to Bo11 to just playing 2 Bo7's was already a questionable decision...

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19 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

Is Gold Pro NBNS?  I'm willing to try anything that is NBNS. Let's get some customs up! 

Memories:

 

NBNS with 4sk DMR, faster item spawns, 45s camo, more gametypes (Ball and Bomb) and better maps/map variants. IMO the best Halo with online capability. 

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