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CyReN

Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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I bet it could. Especially if all the CE/H2 kids stopped crying about how shit H3 is and used that energy to organize grassroots tournaments however big or small. Only thing stopping it is that CE and H2 are dog shit on MCC. Hopefully they get fixed soon.

 

It's not even MCC and Ill be the asshole to say it but HCE and H2 haven't aged well, especially if you didn't grow up playing them. They feel old. And im not saying old = bad, but I will say they're just great memories at this point and the history will always be great to look back on. But very few of us care about CE and 2 but there are still H3 lovers EVERYWHERE 

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As listed on the rules page for this upcoming UGC seeding tournament:

 

Round 6: (Grand Finals)
M1: Narrows (Slayer)
M2: Pit (CTF)
M3: Amplified (Slayer)
M4: Guardian (Oddball)
M5: Construct (Slayer)

 

Three slayers instead of two CTF and Oddball as the fourth game instead of the third  :wutface:

 

I really hope this isn't a preview of how the tournament will run in St. Louis, teams could win by only winner Slayer games. I'm also really hoping that St. Louis uses extended series, the settings are based around a series extended to Bo11, not multiple Bo7s. Would hate to see one game type played more and have a bigger impact on tournament results than another.

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Agreed. Was discussing with some randoms in queue the other night about how Halo 3 has also aged the best of the original trilogy. I love H2, but the textures and everything look very boxy and dated. Halo 3 has a slightly less gritty art style that for some reason still looks pretty good today. And HCE looks old as shit obviously (though it will always be my favorite). I can't tell you how many times over the years people walked in while I was playing H3 and asked"what Halo is this?"

 

H3 still looks good. Big reason why its able to come back 

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I agree that halo 3 has a bigger fan base, people who played it are just younger, but I’m going to disagree with the peak popularity argument...halo 2 has the million dollar contracts, the USA tv show, the doctor pepper bottles, the red bull sponsorship of Walshy, nba star sponsored teams, I think more people probably played halo 3, but it never got as big as halo 2

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I always have and always will remain adamant that H2 has by far the best MP in the franchise.

 

But that comment about it not drawing H3's numbers is unfortunately completely true.

 

Drawing a good crowd with a game that's good enough, but not perfect, is better than drawing a community on life support to a game that's excellent.

 

Keeping the community active is what's most important right now, H3 simply does that job better than H2.

good post
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So what happened to flameswords team announcement?

He'll announce it during roster lock(which was thurs, but now moved to sat).

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H2 on MCC is really bad. From hitreg to spawns to gametypes, it's all very off so most competent people are on Project Cartographer.

 

CE is also an awful port, but the biggest issue is that the game is just not spectator friendly for the average viewer. Way too much stuff going on under the hood. Nobody's going to learn spawns for all the maps just to understand what's going on in a tournament.

 

H3 has its weaknesses, but it by far the best looking Halo game, has established gametypes that everyone is still familiar with, was the most popular Halo game of all time and its golden age wasn't even THAT long ago, so we can see many of the pros back then returning for UGC.

 

CE and H2 should not be left behind for good because they are great games, but for a big event like this and especially the start of grassroots we need the game which will bring in the most viewers.

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H2 on MCC is really bad. From hitreg to spawns to gametypes, it's all very off so most competent people are on Project Cartographer.

 

CE is also an awful port, but the biggest issue is that the game is just not spectator friendly for the average viewer. Way too much stuff going on under the hood. Nobody's going to learn spawns for all the maps just to understand what's going on in a tournament.

 

H3 has its weaknesses, but it by far the best looking Halo game, has established gametypes that everyone is still familiar with, was the most popular Halo game of all time and its golden age wasn't even THAT long ago, so we can see many of the pros back then returning for UGC.

 

CE and H2 should not be left behind for good because they are great games, but for a big event like this and especially the start of grassroots we need the game which will bring in the most viewers.

Maybe it's because I never played OG H2 (or because I'm in the UK right now), but for me the hitreg on H2C/A is MILES better than CE/3 on MCC.  Like it's not even close.  

 

Also, the average viewer doesn't care about spawns because they straight up don't matter from a spectator POV most of the time.  We care about it because we're Halo nuts, but little Timmy that stumbles across the stream only wants to see people pulling off sick plays.  You don't need to understand why spawns work the way they do in order to follow what's going on, but anything in terms of forcing spawns or other mechanics like that from a tactical standpoint for OBJ modes or setting spawn trap is up to the casters to explain to the audience what's going on.  

 

Edit:  If you mean established game types as the map/mode combo then that's arguable, but the modes themselves are the same that have been played since CE and anyone who's ever even seen an FPS before should understand how CTF/Slayer work and KOTH/Ball are not rocket science. 

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Lol at halo 3 having better gametypes than halo 2. Warlock, sanc and, lockout are each better than all the halo 3 maps in rotation by a long shot. Id bet that most of people wanting halo 2 probably couldnt go to an event back in the day when we were all kids. So its out finally chance to go now. Only thing h3 has on h2 is graphics and forge to be honest. Gameplay isnt nearly as good with that terrible br. But it definitely will bring more people which is unfortunate because it will get lost in the shuffle.

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CE is also an awful port, but the biggest issue is that the game is just not spectator friendly for the average viewer. Way too much stuff going on under the hood. Nobody's going to learn spawns for all the maps just to understand what's going on in a tournament.

 

 

 

This is what exceptional casters are for (and help tremendously with).

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There's a big difference between powerful and durable. The Mantis was incredibly durable. The Gauss Warthog and Reach Banshee were powerful. (Reach Banshee also had some absurd durability.) In the Reach Banshee's case, though, there was a giant skill floor to making it powerful. With the Gauss Warthog, it's "Can you aim?"

Definitely disagree with reachs banshee being durable. It was paper.

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Lol at halo 3 having better gametypes than halo 2. Warlock, sanc and, lockout are each better than all the halo 3 maps in rotation by a long shot. Id bet that most of people wanting halo 2 probably couldnt go to an event back in the day when we were all kids. So its out finally chance to go now. Only thing h3 has on h2 is graphics and forge to be honest. Gameplay isnt nearly as good with that terrible br. But it definitely will bring more people which is unfortunate because it will get lost in the shuffle.

Not saying they're better lol, H2 has probably the best competitive gametypes rotation. But ask 50 random people to list the 11 comp H2 gametypes, then the H3 rotation. Most people are still familiar with the H3 MLG settings, which is also why I think they should be left untouched even though there are many improvements to be made.

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imo it should be exactly like Smash events ... side station of Smash 64 = CE, then main focus on Melee = H2 and Sm4sh/Ultimate = H3.  There's definitely room for all the games, and it would be interesting to see the best players compete in multiple titles

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It's not even MCC and Ill be the asshole to say it but HCE and H2 haven't aged well, especially if you didn't grow up playing them. They feel old. And im not saying old = bad, but I will say they're just great memories at this point and the history will always be great to look back on. But very few of us care about CE and 2 but there are still H3 lovers EVERYWHERE 

I understand that, but what I'm saying is that CE and H2 can still be used to grow the scene. I feel like CE and H2 could easily fill a 32 team bracket. There's still people that want to compete and watch those games. Hell, I'd even compete in CE over H3 if there were a 2v2 bracket along side the main H3 tournament. We have all three games on the xbox one with online capabilities. Why limit the competition to one game? All we need 343 to do at this point is get CE and H2 working better and add a very basic way to spectate each POV in game. Like someone said previously look at what the Smash community was able to do without ANY dev support. We have a lot more to work with than what they did. Let's stop putting limits on what's possible.

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We don't even have enough of a prizepool to attract some of our most well known pros (Royal 2 said in stream last night he is probably not going, Mikwen just retired, Frosty and Splyce left, etc) and people want to have tournaments for TWO other Halo games at the same time.

 

Where is this money coming from?

 

There is no evidence at all to suggest that CE or H2 would be successful, in fact it is safer to say that they would be even worse investments than Halo esports already generally is. Also, Beachlan will become bigger and better with Grassroots funding which should satisfy that community.

 

People go on and on with the Smash comparisons as if there aren't significant differences between the two situations. One very important difference is that you only have to pay one person per competitor unit in Smash as opposed to two (in CE) and 4 in other Halo games.

 

Waste of discussion IMO.

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Armada won everything in 2017 and did not make that much money lol, even the sponsored players play for love of the game

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Armada won everything in 2017 and did not make that much money lol, even the sponsored players play for love of the game

Well, he didn't win that event he dropped out of 10 minutes before it started because his controller wasn't malfunctioning properly.

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