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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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Halo Infinite could possibly be an interesting game with the thruster pack, boost jump, and stabilise. 

 

Remove everything else but keep those three. Maps do not necessarily need to be designed around these abilities (except some verticality changes which would not be as damaging to the gameplay as the changes needed to accommodate sprint), none of them have animations that take you out of the fight, nor do weapons necessarily need to be balanced around any of these abilities, particularly on PC, where Infinite will be available. 

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14 hours ago, Morachip said:


Possible :intel:, just rumor but it would seem that sprint is in infinite... :wutface:

Please end me now

If this is real, I'm out. It has been a good run, lads.

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Sorry to say this boys but if anybody expected Infinite not to have sprint, you are holding on to a dying candle. It’s going to have it because the maps are going to be large scale with multiple tiers/layers to traverse.

 

It’s 2019 and the hard truth is that next year Sprint will have been in the Halo franchise long than it’s not.

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2 hours ago, TheSimms said:

Sorry to say this boys but if anybody expected Infinite not to have horrid game design, you are holding on to a dying candle. It’s going to have it because the maps are going to be large scale with multiple tiers/layers to traverse.

 

It’s 2019 and the hard truth is that next year poor gameplay decisions will have been in the Halo franchise longer than not.

FTFY

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3 hours ago, TheSimms said:

Sorry to say this boys but if anybody expected Infinite not to have sprint, you are holding on to a dying candle. It’s going to have it because the maps are going to be large scale with multiple tiers/layers to traverse.

 

It’s 2019 and the hard truth is that next year Sprint will have been in the Halo franchise long than it’s not.

Not to mention, it's already been in as many games as it was absent from.  

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To me, sprint in Halo is like when CoD wen to "advanced movement."  Fans were upset that they changed the movement away from what they like and their impressions of the games were always hindered by the new movement system.

I bring it up, because if the games didn't have "Call of Duty: X" as their title, people probably would have enjoyed the games a lot (well, at least one or two of them).  It's a similar thing to Halo.  Yes, us old school fans want the classic movement back, but there's a tendency to get so hung up on one thing that we can't see the forest for the trees.  

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43 minutes ago, careh said:

Knowing it is probable doesn't make it any less terrible. Their reasoning for including Spirt is self-fulfilling, people will expect it more, the more you put it in the game. They already know the gameplay negatives, they already know there is decent support behind a no Sprint game.

Honestly need to grow some bollocks and just remove it rather than lean on the indifference on people that will buy the game, find out it's still mediocre building around a shit mechanic (for an arena shooter specifically) and move on after a month or two.

Agreed, its done nothing but damage to competitive imho. Honestly, i know sprint is a hot topic but i'm more worried about hit markers, they literally ruined Halo 5 and are the single worst thing to ever happen to the franchise.

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2 minutes ago, Morachip said:

Sprint permeates the game's design and has a far reaching impact.  Look at Halo 5: Slide exists because sprint is in the game, Spartan Charge exists because sprint is in the game, Smart-scope (ADS) exists at least in part because the maps are larger > maps are larger because sprint is in the game.  Bullet magnetism/aim assist is tuned for sprint.  People get hung up on it because it is a big deal and affects the game in a lot of ways. 

I'll give you the bullet magnetism, but ADS/Zoom has always been in Halo, it's just been a different animation than now.  

 

I'll admit that it affects the game a lot, the same way advanced movement did with CoD.  My point is though, that while it affects the game a lot and doesn't feel like the "OG Halo" that we all love, that doesn't mean that the game itself is bad.  

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5 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

I'll give you the bullet magnetism, but ADS/Zoom has always been in Halo, it's just been a different animation than now.  

 

I'll admit that it affects the game a lot, the same way advanced movement did with CoD.  My point is though, that while it affects the game a lot and doesn't feel like the "OG Halo" that we all love, that doesn't mean that the game itself is bad.  

ADS/Zoom didn't exist on EVERY weapon, such as the sword, shotgun, plasma pistol, AR...
That and ADS affected bullet spread on autos.

I agree that sprint alone doesn't make the game bad, but it does it no favors.  Halo 5 is not a bad game, but it's not a great game either.  It's well made sure, decent balance.  I can point out the various ways that the game suffers as a result of sprint's inclusion.  Hell I can point out how clamber adversely affects Halo.  Ultimately another Halo game with sprint in it is just another shooter on the market, sure it will look more like Halo but if the gameplay continues to mimic other shooters then why play it over something else?

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If these rumors are true, than Halo Infinite will be yet another mediocre Halo wannabe that failed to learn anything from its predecessors with absolutely none of the gameplay feel that is expected. Even if they get rid of all the sprint mechanic extensions, their refusal to remove the one mechanic that causes the most damage is telling of how pathetically arrogant/incompetent their leadership is still.

The loss of Halo's omnidirectional movement and combat going hand in hand was an absolutely devastating one, and one of the biggest, if not THE biggest contributor to Halo's overall gameplay feel. Sprint is a disempowering, useless filler mechanic, where even the games its designed with would be better off and flow far better without it. This includes Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, Destiny, literally any fucking title with it I can think of.

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22 hours ago, Morachip said:


 

In the Twitter thread below, @TheEld2 says "the gameplay will be exactly this: Sprinting, sliding, and clambering but nothing else"

Does that mean there won't be any thrust? Thrust seemed to be the most liked advanced movement mechanic, and most pros I've seen discuss Halo Infinite agreed that it should be in the game.

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37 minutes ago, EddyAOS said:

In the Twitter thread below, @TheEld2 says "the gameplay will be exactly this: Sprinting, sliding, and clambering but nothing else"

Does that mean there won't be any thrust? Thrust seemed to be the most liked advanced movement mechanic, and most pros I've seen discuss Halo Infinite agreed that it should be in the game.

It is just rumor, but that would be a classic move from 343.

 

Pros: Please remove sprint

343: Alright we got rid of thruster pack

Pros: ... we never had a problem with that

343: ... Why don't you like our game?

-This is a characterization of how it feels to interact with 343 in a number of situations and not how they actually interact with the community.  343 has promised more transparency over the past few years, if Infinite has sprint in it I would very much appreciate it if someone could please explain the reasoning behind its inclusion in the game.  This question has been asked before and dismissed as "not that simple of a decision" with no clear answer given.  As a result we often end up talking past each other in a manner similar to the fake exchange above with neither side getting anywhere.

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I'm actually incredibly curious as to how a Halo game would look with Sprint, Slide and Clamber. I'm going to make a proof of concept on Halo 5, and will show some footage of myself traversing Plaza, Truth, and Fathom. Will give you guys some footage when I have the time

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42 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

I'm actually incredibly curious as to how a Halo game would look with Sprint, Slide and Clamber. I'm going to make a proof of concept on Halo 5, and will show some footage of myself traversing Plaza, Truth, and Fathom. Will give you guys some footage when I have the time

Movement is literally the same as H5? Thrust is mostly used to cheese out of gunfights and because people are garbage at decision making, not primarily as a map traversal tool. This is such a fucking useless 343-esque compromise. The only abilities that could ever work within Halo are double jump, maaaaybe a reworked and heavily nerfed thrust, slide and stabiliize I don't really care for. But why keep sprint and clamber, the two most detrimental abiities, the destroyers of good map design?

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Clamber is pretty whack if you ask me, you shouldn’t get bailed out for mistiming a jump. Sprint has been trash since Reach. Sliding is God awful on CoD and should’ve never taken the place of drop shotting so I doubt it’ll be decent in Halo. Thrust, in my opinion is the only newer mechanic I personally wouldn’t mind seeing again if done right but I also played maybe a total of 2 H5 matches and never touched the game again so I probably don’t have anything valid to say towards that.

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Been gone awhile, aside from Tox and Rec, whonare the other contenders?

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Thrust has a pretty massive impact on map traversal when you factor in the sprint-thrust-slide-jump combo, and stuff like base to top mid on Truth. The proposed changes are better, but it's such a stupid compromise to continually make. Just cut the fuckin cord and let Halo have unique gameplay again.

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4 minutes ago, GunRanger said:

Been gone awhile, aside from Tox and Rec, whonare the other contenders?

To win the event, basically those two. For other interesting teams, there's a squad of Ace/Neighbor/Frosty/Eco, also we have Nfinite which is Shotzzy/Bubu/Tusk/Falcated.

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Regarding the Infinite leaks, I doubt it's true but it's fun to think about. I'm curious what the controls will look like for the new game with all of those abilities removed. If thrust is removed we have an available button, maybe it's dedicated to grenade switching instead of the d-pad?

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16 hours ago, Boyo said:

Disregarding the fact that you’re already suggesting that competitive Halo play a completely different game than default, you are either ignorant or disingenuous if you think map design is the only aspect of gameplay that suffers due to advanced movement.  The cheese level aim assist on the Sniper Rifle is a direct result of the inclusion of advanced movement.  You can’t fix that by disabling sprint and playing on forge maps. #realhalo 

Why not? We played non default settings for 14 years. Letting the competitive community decide what is best obviously helped Halo 5 tremendously as well. 

I'm not sure how you're blaming advanced movement for high aim assist - look at H2. 

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4 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

Why not? We played non default settings for 14 years. Letting the competitive community decide what is best obviously helped Halo 5 tremendously as well. 

I'm all for letting the community help with figuring out the settings (in fact, I'd encourage it over the devs trying to adjust things at a snails pace and never quite getting it right), but  I'd much rather they alter the core gameplay as much as they can to align with the competitive needs as opposed to have two totally different feeling games.  

That being said, it there's something that obviously won't be/can't be touched after launch, then altering it to make it as competitive as possible is the way to go.  Although, we should still try to leave it as close to casual as possible. 

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