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CyReN

Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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16 hours ago, Hully said:

Not a bad change IMO, but wouldn't it have been simpler to just make the game end automatically once a team is mathematically beaten, rather than changing the score to win?

I've always wondered about this... then again I'm not a programmer/dev so I can't possibly pretend to know what the complications could be. If it helps with matchmaking experience then fine but keep the tournament settings the same. They are tried and true. I have a feeling Lethul is the only one who said anything but he was trolling. However, since he's king... 

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3 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

I've always wondered about this... then again I'm not a programmer/dev so I can't possibly pretend to know what the complications could be. If it helps with matchmaking experience then fine but keep the tournament settings the same. They are tried and true. I have a feeling Lethul is the only one who said anything but he was trolling. However, since he's king... 

I talked to Postums on twitter yesterday and he basically said that it would require entirely new code in order to end the game when it was mathematically out of reach (not something they were wanting to do for obvious reasons).  The reason for the change for MM was they were looking to lower the amount of quitting that was going on.  If that truly was their reasoning, then you're right and tournament settings should still be to 150 because it's just ended manually when it's out of reach. 

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3 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

Part of the post was that it was meant to address quitting.  I'm presuming they have numbers on the back end that say there's a high volume of quits when the game is mathematically over. 

 

I mean, if they are changing this for a high end 6 team event based on MM stats that’s pretty questionable. KotH simply has to stay at 250, it’s a really bad change and plays like ass/becomes heavy one sided. As for Oddball, i see why they are looking to make changes and respect it but Heretic for Guardian is the easier and more simple solution as games will still plar the same regardless of time, the time won’t fix that. An even more simple solution would be to have admins end the game when it’s mathmatically finished. EZ Clap.

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11 minutes ago, TheSimms said:

I mean, if they are changing this for a high end 6 team event based on MM stats that’s pretty questionable. KotH simply has to stay at 250, it’s a really bad change and plays like ass/becomes heavy one sided. As for Oddball, i see why they are looking to make changes and respect it but Heretic for Guardian is the easier and more simple solution as games will still plar the same regardless of time, the time won’t fix that. An even more simple solution would be to have admins end the game when it’s mathmatically finished. EZ Clap.

i think the goal was to have less games that end up being mathematically impossible for a long time, but every single game becomes mathematically impossible at some point.  For tournaments there's no reason to change it because ending it manually is an easy solution.

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I wonder if @Clap tried allowing refs to end games early once they did the math? 

I can see this having more drawbacks than advantages though but it's one idea for a solution.

 

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18 hours ago, Llamaas said:

Not halo related but interesting and could effect halo.

Horrible. I hate this

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While I do think the Guardian score change might be a good idea(at least to test it out), the fact that no one was asking for these changes is somewhat telling.  I know 343 talked to team captains about testing the changes in scrims, but we don't know any more than that.  Will 343 change it back if the pros don't want it or what?  There is a lack of clarity in the Waypoint post on this subject, and the overall tone of the post indicates that 343 has settled on these changes and will implement them regardless, assuming their backend data supports their assertions. 

And who is this change for?  I guess this could be to improve viewer experience, but I don't really get that angle.  Basically every commentator acknowledges and explains that a game become mathematically impossible at a certain point and usually says so when that time comes. 

I also agree with Moses, this change shouldn't come for the sake of randos in matchmaking. 

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1 hour ago, GunRanger said:

Horrible. I hate this

What are the drawbacks of esports mimic'ing the way traditional sports handles business? From an entertainment and recreational standpoint I see no difference.  Esports has always had an issue with creating revenue. We are almost at the point where we'll have a set formula - it just needs to be handled the right way with the correct leadership in place.

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Halo doesn't have the reach for franchising and it's also incredibly lame and superficial. Always thought that since they first did it in Overwatch. 

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I...don't think I see the point of a city-based eSports league when the players probably don't/won't live in the city they'd be "representing"? 

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1 minute ago, Hxrshly said:

Halo doesn't have the reach for franchising and it's also incredibly lame and superficial. Always thought that since they first did it in Overwatch. 

I understand the argument for Halo but that's CoD - a much bigger fish. I can't really speak on the success of Overwatch but it seems to be doing really well.

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7 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I...don't think I see the point of a city-based eSports league when the players probably don't/won't live in the city they'd be "representing"? 

A lot of players in the Overwatch League end up moving to the city of the team they're playing for. I don't necessarily mind the city based branding, but it does seem somewhat superfluous without home and away games. In traditional sports you get home ice or home field advantage, and to play in front of a crowd of your supporters. That doesn't really happen with esports, at least not  yet. And then you get teams based in a city, when all of the players are not only not from that city, but not even from that country. Take the Shanghai Dragons of the OWL for example, a Chinese city with a roster of mostly Korean players. And again, this happens in traditional sports as well, but without the brick and mortar arenas. 

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26 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I...don't think I see the point of a city-based eSports league when the players probably don't/won't live in the city they'd be "representing"? 

I don't know about CoD, but OWL was planning to shift to actually operating like a traditional league with each city having its own venue and true "home" and "away" games at some point which would make more sense.  

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57 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

I don't know about CoD, but OWL was planning to shift to actually operating like a traditional league with each city having its own venue and true "home" and "away" games at some point which would make more sense.  

That sounds outrageously expensive for a form of competition that isn't terribly lucrative for its competitors yet in comparison to other sports. 

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2 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

That sounds outrageously expensive for a form of competition that isn't terribly lucrative for its competitors yet in comparison to other sports. 

i'm assuming that's why it's been put off instead of starting this season like expected. 

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I don't really see the point for CoD. It will just strangle the life out of whatever was left of the 3rd party tournament scene. It also has the potential to muscle out some of the quite diverse Orgs that are currently present in CoD if it's not priced correctly OR goes the Overwatch League route of forcing new branding for teams.

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Yeah if its done anything like OWL i think its a really bad idea. Look at the OWL teams, there isn't a single one in the middle of the country. Theres not even a Chicago org. They have 2 LA orgs but none in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri. Hopefully CWL doesn't alienate people like that because i've enjoyed wathing COD lately. I definitely can't see it working for halo though.  

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40 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

That sounds outrageously expensive for a form of competition that isn't terribly lucrative for its competitors yet in comparison to other sports. 

well, owl is profitable so far. they made a lot from the broadcast rights to twitch and disney. for the home/away thing, the lastt idea i saw seems to be to move the whole division city to city. it seems like a pretty harsh schedule especial with teams in france, england, china, and south korea. i could see a lot of burnout

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3 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

I understand the argument for Halo but that's CoD - a much bigger fish. I can't really speak on the success of Overwatch but it seems to be doing really well.

The biggest problem I see for CoD is that franchising comes with new team names. That was okay for Overwatch, a new game, but tradition bears a lot of the popularity for CoD through orgs like nV, OG, Faze, Complexity, etc. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but it hurts to not have the brand directly attached.

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Still have 31 spots open for Sunday, make sure to fill your teams!

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19 minutes ago, CyReN said:

Still have 31 spots open for Sunday, make sure to fill your teams!

If I wasn’t in South Korea and had friends I’d play :c .

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I think the koth change is lazy and potentially won't even fix the issue. If the problem is people quitting at mathematically impossible to win scores it seems like that moment will still occur in any of the games where people are getting blown out and likely to quit. So while it might impact how often the situation occurs the only real solution is to put in some work and have the game end when one team cannot win. Like it already would had someone with a brain created the time based modes originally. I don't think the length of games is a problem at all at 250 points to win. Plus it would be nice to just see direct improvement to the game over changes that impact how the game actually plays out

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11 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

What are the drawbacks of esports mimic'ing the way traditional sports handles business? From an entertainment and recreational standpoint I see no difference.  Esports has always had an issue with creating revenue. We are almost at the point where we'll have a set formula - it just needs to be handled the right way with the correct leadership in place.

I hate the way esports thinks mimicking pro sports is the way to legitimacy. Wearing suits all the time, using real names instead of gamertags etc. People gravitated to esports because it was fresh, and an extension of the gamer culture, especially online play where you can play globally. Regular sports are only played locally, which is why local city culture and city based teams makes sense. Theyre a reflection of the city, and have the money and history to maintain a presence.

 

This shit is just forced and throws away all the fun and unique nature of orgs, and specific team fanbases. I also read open tourneys would go away too.

 

Not too mention all these city names sound corny. I have no interest in OWL and will have no interest in this.

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