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Classic Halo Esports and HCS Grassroots 2019 Discussion Thread

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9 hours ago, Hxrshly said:

Double post, but I'd like to say there's way too many people that think HCS is gonna move to PC in infinite. 

I doubt many people think this and I haven't really seen this, but I really think it should.

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33 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

TS is h3's worst gametype in general, regardless of the map. 

Back in 08/09, Killa KC (MLG's main gametype tester) floated the idea of strictly running CTF for the pro circuit since that's H3's best gametype. There was no way pro players would let MLG get away with removing gametypes they had been grinding for months, but KC was on to something. 

Not sure if this small H3 revival makes a gametype overhaul worthwhile, but we shouldnt be running TS gametypes in 4v4 esports for h3. 

God that would've been so amazing 

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34 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

TS is h3's worst gametype in general, regardless of the map. 

Back in 08/09, Killa KC (MLG's main gametype tester) floated the idea of strictly running CTF for the pro circuit since that's H3's best gametype. There was no way pro players would let MLG get away with removing gametypes they had been grinding for months, but KC was on to something. 

Not sure if this small H3 revival makes a gametype overhaul worthwhile, but we shouldnt be running TS gametypes in 4v4 esports for h3. 

I've been saying we need to drop TS for a while now.  Halo is the only competitive game that uses a TDM style mode.  While I'd LOVE for things to be CTF only, I'll take just OBJ in general. 

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18 minutes ago, andregr said:

I doubt many people think this and I haven't really seen this, but I really think it should.

Hard disagree on that one.  I get the reasoning behind it, but part of Halo's competitive identity is that it's on the Xbox and played using a controller.  I don't have a problem with there being separately run things that use PC, but the main platform should still be Xbox.

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9 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

Hard disagree on that one.  I get the reasoning behind it, but part of Halo's competitive identity is that it's on the Xbox and played using a controller.  I don't have a problem with there being separately run things that use PC, but the main platform should still be Xbox.

I think saying that there is a set competitive identity is very close minded. I think Halo has been in such a lull for a long enough time that its "competitive identity" on console isn't even that strong anymore. I think a focus on PC will provide a new fresh air for the franchise and the competitive, it and allow a whole new population to join the community in a game that is already struggling to maintain relevancy on console.

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1 minute ago, andregr said:

I think saying that there is a set competitive identity is very close minded. I think Halo has been in such a lull for a long enough time that its "competitive identity" on console isn't even that strong anymore. I think a focus on PC will provide a new fresh air for the franchise and the competitive, it and allow a whole new population to join the community in a game that is already struggling to maintain relevancy on console.

If H5 was the only game that had been played competitively, then sure, but we've had Halo being played competitive on console for ~17 years give or take.  It absolutely has a competitive identity.  Of course it's not set in stone, but it would be an absolutely massive shift to move to PC.  It would be like if another CS game is ever made and it moved to console for some reason.  

I mean there's nothing preventing them from joining just because the competitive is on console, and if it did then the reverse holds true as well that it alienates any potential new console players as well.  I think both are ridiculous.  

I will concede that there are more players on PC, but again there's nothing preventing them from having separate PC stuff but considering Halo and Gears are supposed to be the Xbox "system sellers" I can't imagine moving competitive to PC for either of them.  

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19 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

I've been saying we need to drop TS for a while now.  Halo is the only competitive game that uses a TDM style mode.  While I'd LOVE for things to be CTF only, I'll take just OBJ in general. 

Not even COD plays TDM competitively, which I would see as the most likely to do so. I think it has held in Halo for so long because it is a slower paced game based more around map control of power weapons, making it much less random and much less campy, but I still think it is the worst gametype. Also, I don't really agree with things being CTF only; while I agree its the best game type, I still think some variance is a good thing to keep another level of depth in strategy between maps. Plus CTF only means we probably will lose asymmetrical maps like guardian that play oddball.

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27 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

Hard disagree on that one.  I get the reasoning behind it, but part of Halo's competitive identity is that it's on the Xbox and played using a controller.  I don't have a problem with there being separately run things that use PC, but the main platform should still be Xbox.

I think halo needs to go to PC as well. When people outside of the scene think of halo esports it usually ends up with them sayings its dead. Going to PC could be the fresh start comp halo needs to start growing again. On top of that, it will be more respected by pc players who make fun of console all of the time. This scene is in a pickle and needs to start taking some risks in order to climb back towards the top of the mountain.

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1 minute ago, Llamaas said:

I think halo needs to go to PC as well. When people outside of the scene think of halo esports it usually ends up with them sayings its dead. Going to PC could be the fresh start comp halo needs to start growing again. On top of that, it will be more respected by pc players who make fun of console all of the time. This scene is in a pickle and needs to start taking some risks in order to climb back towards the top of the mountain.

It's a double edged sword.  It would bring in newer players, but it would also alienate a lot of the returning audience.  You'd also get a bunch of the old guard bailing on the game because "the game they loved is dead" since it's not being played competitive on console.  Make no mistake, I think it should absolutely stay on console, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm not going to play the shit of the game simply because it moved competitive to PC.   

I think the better option is to put a metric shit-tonne effort into advertising and promoting the competitive scene.  It needs to be all over the damn place (ESPECIALLY in game).  Do what Rocket League does and have a thing on the main menu for when there is a live event to watch and when you click on it, it takes you to the stream on your Xbox. 

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11 minutes ago, Trespa5s said:

It's a double edged sword.  It would bring in newer players, but it would also alienate a lot of the returning audience.  You'd also get a bunch of the old guard bailing on the game because "the game they loved is dead" since it's not being played competitive on console.  Make no mistake, I think it should absolutely stay on console, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm not going to play the shit of the game simply because it moved competitive to PC.   

I think the better option is to put a metric shit-tonne effort into advertising and promoting the competitive scene.  It needs to be all over the damn place (ESPECIALLY in game).  Do what Rocket League does and have a thing on the main menu for when there is a live event to watch and when you click on it, it takes you to the stream on your Xbox. 

I really don't think there is much of an audience at all anymore that would leave comp halo because it moved to pc. Everyone left at this point has been through some shit here and seems loyal to the game. Sure, we might lose a few big names like snipedown, but we will most definitely retain a lot of them like pretty much all of tox as well as finding new talent from the PC world. Console halo has such a bad stigma that not a lot of players want to start competing in it. Instead they go to CoD. I think Halo would gain more players than lose. The young stars in halo already left, so staying on console so the snipedowns and roys and compete for an extra year doesn't make sense to me. Halo Esports needs to start building from the ground up, creating new personalities instead of relying on ones that won't be around in a year or 2. Again, I really believe we need a fresh start.

 

EDIT: I thought i said this also but I guess I didn't. It seems a lot easier to globalize your esport when its on a PC than when its on a console, ESPECIALLY the xbox.

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Just give both communities the tools to support themselves and see where people want to play. Spectator client, LAN mode, private servers, functional access to API, modding / mapping tools etc. If there is an appetite for competitive PC Halo (which I believe there is) then tournaments, starting with online / leagues, will practically organize themselves and it can grow from there.

What is an absolute MUST is the game needs to release on PC at a AAA level quality not just an after thought. Halo can't rely entirely on just the Xbox population anymore.

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57 minutes ago, Frostbite XV2 said:

 

Dang that sucks I thought he did well this past event.

 

3 hours ago, Trespa5s said:

If H5 was the only game that had been played competitively, then sure, but we've had Halo being played competitive on console for ~17 years give or take.  It absolutely has a competitive identity.  Of course it's not set in stone, but it would be an absolutely massive shift to move to PC.  It would be like if another CS game is ever made and it moved to console for some reason.  

I mean there's nothing preventing them from joining just because the competitive is on console, and if it did then the reverse holds true as well that it alienates any potential new console players as well.  I think both are ridiculous.  

I will concede that there are more players on PC, but again there's nothing preventing them from having separate PC stuff but considering Halo and Gears are supposed to be the Xbox "system sellers" I can't imagine moving competitive to PC for either of them.  

Yeah I agree im also tired of the narrative that every esport has to go to PC. I personally really like console esports and I like that Halo and COD have stayed there this whole time. Im all for having two scenes like Siege used to have, but wholeheartedly against it moving solely to PC or having it be the main focus. 

It would also definitely alienate me as a fan. We have heard pros like Snakebite say that they dont play on PC bcs they just arent good with a M&KB and one of the biggest reasons I watch Halo is for the personalities. I know some would be more than capable of moving to PC like Royal2 and Lethul, but still.

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51 minutes ago, MUSE_iC said:

Yeah I agree im also tired of the narrative that every esport has to go to PC. I personally really like console esports and I like that Halo and COD have stayed there this whole time. Im all for having two scenes like Siege used to have, but wholeheartedly against it moving solely to PC or having it be the main focus. 

It would also definitely alienate me as a fan. We have heard pros like Snakebite say that they dont play on PC bcs they just arent good with a M&KB and one of the biggest reasons I watch Halo is for the personalities. I know some would be more than capable of moving to PC like Royal2 and Lethul, but still.

Exactly.  Not to mention, let's be honest with ourselves.  Half the reason the H5 seen was even as successful as it was (which isn't exactly a high bar) was because of the old names and the fact that OpTIc got involved for a while.  Of course it's not the ONLY reason it had viewers,  but take away the TOX/REC complete rosters (among various other players such as Ace or Mikwen) and all of a sudden the scene looks rather bland.  Hence why I think the smarter move is to either have both PC and Xbox scenes with their own events, or just stick with Xbox and promote the shit out of it. 

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Old Denial: doesn't pay players

New Denial: owner calls a player a slur and then defends his actions

I think Denial might need to hit the reset button again and rebrand with a new name.

 

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Eco playing with fantasy, goofy, Gabriel in a scrim against rec tonight

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41 minutes ago, Craneteam said:

This puckett lan is so much fun

This stream is really nice.

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HOT TAKE:

MS has enough money to support an HCS scene for both PC and Xbox One at the same time. Siege used too have X1/PS4/SIEGE competitions on, and only dropped X1/PS4 because PC was blowing them out of the water with its viewership.

 

Run Infinite HCS on PC and X1 for the first year and a half, and then drop the one with a lower average viewerbase. No point sticking to console if it neuters the viewership. 

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I always enjoyed having Halo as a console esport, I thought it went well along with Gears and COD (both being on PC and Gears + Halo being system sellers for Microsoft). Especially after the uproar of H5 not having splitscreen and 343 promising its return. I can see LAN parties being more popular again, which you couldn't do with PCs (splitscreen) plus consoles are more accessible with the younger crowd. 

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2 hours ago, Noodle said:

Old Denial: doesn't pay players

New Denial: owner calls a player a slur and then defends his actions

I think Denial might need to hit the reset button again and rebrand with a new name.

 

Regardless of the circumstances, he's just a fuckin asshole. 

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1 minute ago, Frostbite XV2 said:

Regardless of the circumstances, he's just a fuckin asshole. 

Yeah dude comes off as a massive cunt.

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