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Halo Infinite Discussion

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9 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Heh.

Except hhhh and probably IcePrince

 

7 hours ago, xSociety said:

I don't think your opinion that Halo 5 takes so much skill because of thruster can really hold up considering you haven't even played Halo 5 since 2017 anyway.

Funny enough, a big reason that I quit playing Halo 5 is because it made my hands hurt, what with the 17 buttons and all. I know everything here is viewed through the lens of The Great Halo Culture war, but I'll repeat myself and say that I don't really give a shit about Halo 5 in any way, and I don't think it "takes so much skill." It was just a convenient example to illustrate my point that your stance on strafe speed is flawed. Honestly though, I don't think many people here engaged with the game in a meaningful way, because there are certainly some positives to take away from the movement mechanics even if you dislike them overall. A lot of you should work on your mentality when approaching new games. You'll be happier, and play better too.

 

2 hours ago, Kell Of Scots said:

Again, not what I meant but it's not much different from using the gravity hammer to do it. Those sorts of nuances are what makes a good sandbox too.

It important aspect to Halo that we've been missing for some time is seeing weapons on the map battle other weapons. Thats what a sandbox is. Various mechanics interacting. You can't have that if there isn't much to pick up ala Halo 5. Infinite is doing better, but it could also do better.

The sandbox is always going to suffer unless we completely give up on the entire idea of a "utility weapon." When one gun can do it all, everything else is either irrelevant or overpowered. What weapons have we had that actually filled a useful niche? The plasma pistol. The CE plasma rifle? The slowdown is cool, but a bit gimmicky, and I don't see 343 bringing it back. I imagine the 2 weapon limit makes the devs extra reluctant to further specialize guns into one area of competence as well. Melee damage hurts too, because things like a 4 shot perfect kill can become a 2 shot + beatdown.

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31 minutes ago, Boyo said:

How can a multiplayer map tastefully evolve over the course of a match?  

I can think of a few but I don't want the follow up questions so I won't say what they are. 

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

An amorphous sand map could transform over the course of the match.  Dunes could be blown away over time, revealing hidden structures/items.  

That is very cool. How are the dunes blown away?

 

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3 minutes ago, hhhh said:

there are certainly some positives to take away from the movement mechanics

Such as? 

3 minutes ago, hhhh said:

The sandbox is always going to suffer unless we completely give up on the entire idea of a "utility weapon." When one gun can do it all, everything else is either irrelevant or overpowered.

What would your ideal spawn weapon/s look like?  

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Just now, hvs500 said:

That is very cool. How are the dunes blown away?

 

A low pass of a massive ship, forerunner key ship landing, rift forming earthquake that sucks in the sand...

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8 minutes ago, hhhh said:

The sandbox is always going to suffer unless we completely give up on the entire idea of a "utility weapon." When one gun can do it all, everything else is either irrelevant or overpowered..

Doesn't have to be.The idea behind a utility weapon is to make the players competent of spawn, so that snowballing is minimised and the opposing players feel threatened to some extent, no matter what weapon they are carrying. You can make the player seek out other weapons by making it so that they give the player a strategic advantage, which is much more interesting than a numerical advantage.  

The utility doesn't have to be the best at what it does, just good enough that it challenges other weapons to the extent that they are constantly on their toes.  

 

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I'd prefer if the changes in gamestate are induced by the players intentionally to gain a strategic advantage- much like chess.

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1 minute ago, hvs500 said:

I'd prefer if the changes in gamestate are induced by the players intentionally to gain a strategic advantage- much like chess.

If the enemy team controls Camo, then flood the map.  The puddles, waterfalls, and mist betray the invisible player, revealing him in the negative space.  

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38 minutes ago, hhhh said:

The sandbox is always going to suffer unless we completely give up on the entire idea of a "utility weapon." When one gun can do it all, everything else is either irrelevant or overpowered. What weapons have we had that actually filled a useful niche? The plasma pistol. The CE plasma rifle? The slowdown is cool, but a bit gimmicky, and I don't see 343 bringing it back. I imagine the 2 weapon limit makes the devs extra reluctant to further specialize guns into one area of competence as well. Melee damage hurts too, because things like a 4 shot perfect kill can become a 2 shot + beatdown.

Why should we sacrifice the viability of a game on the alter of the "Sandbox?" In basketball, do they force the players to dribble with a baseball glove on once they get past half court? In soccer, do we force players to suddenly walk on their hands when they get in the keeper box? Boy that would be some variety, am I right? 

The purpose of the sandbox is not to be the gameplay variety, but to support it. Give the individual player the tools necessary to be creative and skillful and improvisational. You don't do that by giving them a vast array of niche weapons, because then their entire strategic opportunity set is reduced to the parameters of their current weapon. In a game where you are forced to react to different encounters across different geographic locations in rapid and often unpredictable succession, it's not "strategic" to limit a player to only being effective from a certain range or a certain situation.

You would be throwing out the influence of a player in exchange for "weapon variety". We want strategic variety, player variety, team variety. That will only come from giving individual players the ability to influence the outcome of encounters through their individual skill and strategy, not by forcing them to limit their effectiveness to a niche. 

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40 minutes ago, hvs500 said:

That is very cool. How are the dunes blown away?

 

A sand storm blows the sand dune from off of one structure onto another.

one structure is now exposed

the other is now buried

 

on another note the maps were made in size for sprint but the base speed seems faster than ever and for all intents the same as sprint 

so now maps are larger to accommodate base movement????

Infinite maps just being larger will need more assets and geometry simply to avoid looking empty or overly simplistic. With the new engine we hope this won’t be a problem. But I wonder if it will open the door to make even 4v4 maps more interesting to explore?

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17 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Why should we sacrifice the viability of a game on the alter of the "Sandbox?" In basketball, do they force the players to dribble with a baseball glove on once they get past half court? In soccer, do we force players to suddenly walk on their hands when they get in the keeper box? Boy that would be some variety, am I right? 

The purpose of the sandbox is not to be the gameplay variety, but to support it. Give the individual player the tools necessary to be creative and skillful and improvisational. You don't do that by giving them a vast array of niche weapons, because then their entire strategic opportunity set is reduced to the parameters of their current weapon. In a game where you are forced to react to different encounters across different geographic locations in rapid and often unpredictable succession, it's not "strategic" to limit a player to only being effective from a certain range or a certain situation.

You would be throwing out the influence of a player in exchange for "weapon variety". We want strategic variety, player variety, team variety. That will only come from giving individual players the ability to influence the outcome of encounters through their individual skill and strategy, not by forcing them to limit their effectiveness to a niche. 

Who the fuck is we? Team behind doesn’t even represent half of the competitive community the utility needs to straight up go.

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Let's throw in some sandworms and have a real crossover.

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15 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Who the fuck is we? Team behind doesn’t even represent half of the competitive community the utility needs to straight up go.

Petitioning for a name change.

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8 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Why should we sacrifice the viability of a game on the alter of the "Sandbox?" In basketball, do they force the players to dribble with a baseball glove on once they get past half court? In soccer, do we force players to suddenly walk on their hands when they get in the keeper box? Boy that would be some variety, am I right? 

The purpose of the sandbox is not to be the gameplay variety, but to support it. Give the individual player the tools necessary to be creative and skillful and improvisational. You don't do that by giving them a vast array of niche weapons, because then their entire strategic opportunity set is reduced to the parameters of their current weapon. In a game where you are forced to react to different encounters across different geographic locations in rapid and often unpredictable succession, it's not "strategic" to limit a player to only being effective from a certain range or a certain situation.

You would be throwing out the influence of a player in exchange for "weapon variety". We want strategic variety, player variety, team variety. That will only come from giving individual players the ability to influence the outcome of encounters through their individual skill and strategy, not by forcing them to limit their effectiveness to a niche. 

I was replying to people bemoaning the redundancy of past Halo sandboxes. Please read the full context. Your post is gibberish. I mentioned the two weapon limit. In other games in this genre you can hold every weapon, so weapons don't need to be redundant.

39 minutes ago, hvs500 said:

The utility doesn't have to be the best at what it does, just good enough that it challenges other weapons to the extent that they are constantly on their toes. 

The BR and DMR in Halo 5 were essentially slightly better versions of the utility weapon and people immediately argued for their removal. Many users here pushed for a buff to the pistol to make sure that the utility weapon was the strongest non-power weapon on the map. I believe the reasoning was something along the lines of "someone picking up an upgraded version of the same gun adds randomness."

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

An amorphous sand map could transform over the course of the match.  Dunes could be blown away over time, revealing hidden structures/items.  

I think the real question that no one is asking is, WHY?

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7 minutes ago, Mow said:

I think the real question that no one is asking is, WHY?

Why isn’t a seven game series all played on the same map?  

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2 hours ago, xSociety said:

Well you could just unbind Sprint but I think you'd want to keep it for the slide jumps and shit. Just force yourself to walk everywhere unless you need to slide. Never showing up on radar is huge. 

im on controller. I can't do anything. at least until the final game comes.

 

i was tryna rebind teh "drop weapon" button on dpad cause I kept using that instead of swapping nades. So many weapons I dropped accidentally

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What 343 needs to ACTUALLY do is change maps based on feedback and their backend data. Don't let a shit map stay shit for the life of the game anymore. This is a live service game after all. 

We don't need levolution in 4v4 Halo. 

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13 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Why isn’t a seven game series all played on the same map?  

I get what you're saying, it's for variety, but I have yet to see this be done properly. Sure, that doesn't mean it can't be done properly, but it always just comes across as a gimmick when done on a large scale. For example, Battlefield 4 Siege of Shanghai, this map plays fine when the skyscraper is up but as soon as the skyscraper falls it plays like ass. Another example from BF4 is Gulf Of Oman, occasionally there will be a sandstorm which makes one of my favorite Battlefield maps play like, once again, ass. All for "variety". That just isn't a good enough justification for me, and your reply already provided the solution to the variety problem which is, different maps...

I think if we are to have interactive/dynamic elements on the map they should stick to small scale things such as the bridge on Zanzibar/Last Resort, otherwise you run the risk of turning a would be decent map into total dogshit.

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1 hour ago, hhhh said:

Funny enough, a big reason that I quit playing Halo 5 is because it made my hands hurt, what with the 17 buttons and all.

hahahahahahaha

1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

 Team behind 

  Solid gold typo.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Halo 5: carpel tunnelians

Halo 5: Wrist Guardians

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How about a side scrolling map?  The map is very long but only a small portion of it is being played in at any given time.  Battle Royales have a shrinking perimeter.  Halo has a sliding perimeter.  

The inside of a Halo ring is the very long map.  The sliding perimeter is a phalanx of sentinels fighting off a flood horde that kills you if you enter.  

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6 minutes ago, Boyo said:

How about a side scrolling map?  The map is very long but only a small portion of it is being played in at any given time.  Battle Royales have a shrinking perimeter.  Halo has a sliding perimeter.  

The inside of a Halo ring is the very long map.  The sliding perimeter is a phalanx of sentinels fighting off a flood horde that kills you if you enter.  

How would you feel about a shrink ray?

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54 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

Petitioning for a name change.

To be fair that was a Typo error 

 

50 minutes ago, hhhh said:

The BR and DMR in Halo 5 were essentially slightly better versions of the utility weapon and people immediately argued for their removal. Many users here pushed for a buff to the pistol to make sure that the utility weapon was the strongest non-power weapon on the map. I believe the reasoning was something along the lines of "someone picking up an upgraded version of the same gun adds randomness."

This right here is halos problem. In halo people want to

spawn hella strong and YET want weapons on the map to be useful. Why the fuck would I pick up another weapon that’s not a power weapon. Ce isn’t a good example since every weapon in that is a power weapon in future games. In ce you got a 1 SK sniper or two shots(extremely fast ROF anyway) so it’s TTK is still faster than CES pistol .6) 

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