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Halo Infinite Discussion

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16 minutes ago, Kell Of Scots said:

You have sandbox elements.... and they interact.

What do you think about the Repulsor’s ability to interact with an incoming rocket?  

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24 minutes ago, Kell Of Scots said:

You have sandbox elements.... and they interact. Instead of a map having a sniper and OS, a map has 2 Snipers, 2 shotguns, Rockets, OS, Camo, 2 brute shots, 2 needlers. Lots to pick up, so lots of weapons end up interacting. Lots of unique engagements. 

 

I'd argue that none of them interact particularly well. They have almost 0 synergies and none of them truly counter each other- Besides rockets countering os, but rockets beat everything, don't they? The 2 weapons you choose almost always exist in a vacuum. The context of the battlefield rarely matters- A rocket and sniper is always the best choice if you are skilled enough. 

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At this point, I'm more curious/enthusiastic about Infinite with a 120% damage modifier, Pistol starts and no ARs. 

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5 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

At this point, I'm more curious/enthusiastic about Infinite with a 120% damage modifier, Pistol starts and no ARs. 

I'd love to try that out. I'd maybe like to see jump height increased too, just based off some jumps requiring clamber, which was annoying in the flight. 

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"I agree the AR needs to be less effective when full auto spraying at a distance. But it DOES need a faster optimal TTK then the BR, otherwise somebody who can land consistent BR bursts never has a reason to use the AR."

The great feedback 343 gets from Twitter ^^ We're doomed. 

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The fact that the BR has a much slower ttk than either the AR or pistol triggers the fuck outta me. Who greenlit this?

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25 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

At this point, I'm more curious/enthusiastic about Infinite with a 120% damage modifier, Pistol starts and no ARs. 

Halo needs a strong utility weapon.  There are three valid choices:  3 shot magnum, 4 shot magnum or a BR with the ability to double shot.  

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1 hour ago, hvs500 said:

Hot take. Don't snip off my eyelids-

Movement mechanics are an extremely artificial and cheap way to add a layer of skill to a game. Skill should be added organically by the mechanics absolutely needed to make your game work. If you were to remove the movement mechanics from a game like quake or h5, it won't break it's fundamental design, just make it considerably less skillful. This is a problem. Players should not be forced to interact with meaningless mechanics just to make your game take skill. 

It is exceedingly easy to design a game mechanically demanding. You can do it, I can probably do it. A lobotimised eel can do it. But to think up a game that is mentally taxing- that is not easy in the least.

I don't think many disagree, this places seems to dislike the "Hey can you also do this?"-skill tests like shot pacing to counter bloom, recoil control, sprintslidejumpthruststabilizemashcrouchclamber, or button combos without risk. Shit you'd rather practice in an empty server.

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6 minutes ago, potetr said:

I don't think many disagree, this places seems to dislike the "Hey can you also do this?"-skill tests like shot pacing to counter bloom, recoil control, sprintslidejumpthruststabilizemashcrouchclamber, or button combos without risk. Shit you'd rather practice in an empty server.

That's just a small part Halo 5's insane movement skill! 

If you aren't breaking a sweat jumping to top mid on Elongationship you might as well go play Roblox. 

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The problem with advanced movement is plainly evident in Halo 5: there was only ONE advanced movement ability that matters while you're in a firefight, which was thrust. Let me repeat that - you only had ONE mobility option when actually fighting against other people. One option means that it's no longer about strategy, it's about the oooh-aaah factor, because thrust was no longer an option but an expectation.

You want advanced mobility? Give us multiple options in combat. Give us a non-locking sword-like melee lunge with a usable hit range, then give us thrust to try to counter it. Give us double-jump and wall kicks. Give us fast falling. Give us ANYTHING other than one lame combat-centric utility.

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33 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Halo needs a strong utility weapon.  There are three valid choices:  3 shot magnum, 4 shot magnum or a BR with the ability to double shot.  

kill in 2 bursts or the ability to double shot like in halo 2? 

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19 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

You want advanced mobility? Give us multiple options in combat.

Movement Abilities 

Thruster is the standard dodge.  

Evade is advanced dodge that can interact with the environment eg launch the user off a ramp.  

Gravity Boots high-jump on the ground, hover in the air, and ground-stomp while hovering.  

Artifact modifies the map in some way eg open a locked door.  
 

Airborne Movement Abilities 

Jump Jet is a quick upward boost.  

Wall Kick moves up and away from the vertical surface.  

Gravity Gauntlet lunges forward a short distance then clambers up a ledge if one is reached.  

Glider increases forward movement speed, decreases descent speed, and enhances air control by granting the ability to bank left and right.    
 

13 minutes ago, boogerman said:

kill in 2 bursts or the ability to double shot like in halo 2? 

The latter.  

 

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20 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The problem with advanced movement is plainly evident in Halo 5: there was only ONE advanced movement ability that matters while you're in a firefight, which was thrust. Let me repeat that - you only had ONE mobility option when actually fighting against other people. One option means that it's no longer about strategy, it's about the oooh-aaah factor, because thrust was no longer an option but an expectation.

You want advanced mobility? Give us multiple options in combat. Give us a non-locking sword-like melee lunge with a usable hit range, then give us thrust to try to counter it. Give us double-jump and wall kicks. Give us fast falling. Give us ANYTHING other than one lame combat-centric utility.

I follow what you are saying here, it’s pretty straight forward. But then back all the way up to HCE and tell us before thrust, sprint, or anything else was added, what options would you enumerate a player could choose from during a firefight that are no longer available?

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

And nothing of value was lost.

EDIT: Let's actually analyze this for a moment. This graphic I made a few years back is relevant:

zU76Rz2.png

Briefly, "every weapon has an equal chance in every situation except the most extreme ranges" is just another way of saying "everything is fucking redundant". If that's the kind of experience you want then you do you, but that is almost objectively boring and devoid of strong strategy. It also flies completely in the face of the concept of the utility weapon, the foundation of every iteration of Halo has some semblance of thoughtful balance, but neither casuals nor the developers give a shit about that so, eh.

You forgot the Needler on this diagram 

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1 hour ago, SpitFlame said:

The fact that the BR has a much slower ttk than either the AR or pistol triggers the fuck outta me. Who greenlit this?

I’m cool with it having a slower TTK than the pistol, because the pistol is way harder to use. 
 

i bet average TTKs will be similar. 
 

The AR being so much faster is hilariously bad. I was donging on BR users with the AR from a distance. I felt like a total slut, but I had to do it for science. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mhunterjr said:

 I felt like a total slut, but I had to do it for science. 

YARN | ...semi-respectable big brother. | The Holiday (2006) | Video gifs  by quotes | 5b461bec | 紗

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2 hours ago, hvs500 said:

I'd argue that none of them interact particularly well. They have almost 0 synergies and none of them truly counter each other- Besides rockets countering os, but rockets beat everything, don't they? The 2 weapons you choose almost always exist in a vacuum. The context of the battlefield rarely matters- A rocket and sniper is always the best choice if you are skilled enough. 

It doesn't just refer to one player grabbing weapons. It's also about weapons being used against one another. 

 

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39 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

You forgot the Needler on this diagram 

The disrespect being shown to the flamethrower right now

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

What do you think about the Repulsor’s ability to interact with an incoming rocket?  

Again, not what I meant but it's not much different from using the gravity hammer to do it. Those sorts of nuances are what makes a good sandbox too.

It important aspect to Halo that we've been missing for some time is seeing weapons on the map battle other weapons. Thats what a sandbox is. Various mechanics interacting. You can't have that if there isn't much to pick up ala Halo 5. Infinite is doing better, but it could also do better.

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1 hour ago, potetr said:

I don't think many disagree, this places seems to dislike the "Hey can you also do this?"-skill tests like shot pacing to counter bloom, recoil control, sprintslidejumpthruststabilizemashcrouchclamber, or button combos without risk. Shit you'd rather practice in an empty server.

It was more or less because I was criticising quake, the sacred cow of fps design. I think it's a brilliant game, don't get me wrong, but it is also a very flawed one. The two biggest flaws that come to mind are this and it's snowballing problem. That's alright. Even CE has flaws- it's lack of meaningful map control and long term strategy being the two most glaring. That's alright. It is EXCRUCIATINGLY hard to create a perfect game ( if perfect really exists). I've thought about this a lot. Even chess isn't beyond criticism- Boring starts and excessive memorisation. 

^I went on a tangent, but what I want to convey is that nothing is beyond criticism, and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

And nothing of value was lost.

EDIT: Let's actually analyze this for a moment. This graphic I made a few years back is relevant:

zU76Rz2.png

Briefly, "every weapon has an equal chance in every situation except the most extreme ranges" is just another way of saying "everything is fucking redundant". If that's the kind of experience you want then you do you, but that is almost objectively boring and devoid of strong strategy. It also flies completely in the face of the concept of the utility weapon, the foundation of every iteration of Halo has some semblance of thoughtful balance, but neither casuals nor the developers give a shit about that so, eh.

Devs love graphics. You should show them this. All the pretty colours help.

 

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