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Halo Infinite Discussion

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34 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

You haven’t played on that high level I have. It is so frustrating because the way people play is shoot portal shoot portal. The reason people hate sprint is because of the get out of jail free cards once people face someone who’s really good at abusing them they’ll hate it. One thing split gate never did was balance when you can use a portal. If it had say the thrust 4 seconds that be balanced 

I can't argue there. I don't have even remotely close to enough time to get to high level in any games at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I feel like the same people who were hailing H5 as the "best multiplayer Halo ever" are the exact same people saying "they struck a good balance this time".

I didn't play the tech demo but it gives me the same feelings as tournament-sterilized H4.

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5 minutes ago, Pyroteq said:

What leads to so much teamshot is the average TTK. Unless the gap between noob, average and skilled is widened this will still be a game full of players holding hands to secure kills. Considering a fucking perfect BR kill with headshots is slower than an AR kill WITH BODY SHOTS, I'm failing to see how this game is going to have less team shooting than previous titles.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if instead of team shooting with BR's and Sidekicks with see team shooting with a freakin' AR in this game.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but nothing about the current weapon balance suggests you're going to see players carry a team like they could in Halo 1.

Oh, and BTW the Sidekick which actually requires a decent bit of skill and a decent TTK only has 1 potential kill per magazine so you're constantly reloading meaning probably not even Ogre 2 is winning a 1v2 against average skill players.

Fuck I forgot about magazine size. I take back what I said. I'll just wait and see for now.

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51 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

You haven’t played on that high level I have. It is so frustrating because the way people play is shoot portal shoot portal. The reason people hate sprint is because of the get out of jail free cards once people face someone who’s really good at abusing them they’ll hate it. One thing split gate never did was balance when you can use a portal. If it had say the thrust 4 seconds that be balanced 

I saw some high level play and it looked really good. I think it certainly would play better in objective games though when players are forced to move so they can't abuse the portals to keep on peak shooting.

One thing that might balance that would be if the EMP grenade lands on a portal with a player trying to peak through they get tele-fragged. Haven't put enough hours into the game to know if that's a thing, but if not it certainly should be. It would be hilarious to see someone abusing the portals get instagibbed by an EMP grenade.

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41 minutes ago, hhhh said:

TIL that mashing my strafe keys in a random pattern takes more skill than "spamming" my thrust, nevermind that the thrust commits me to a set trajectory and has a long enough cooldown that I can realistically use it once per engagement. The bar for Halo movement skill is extremely low, but Halo 5 is the best it has ever been by far. To think otherwise is ignorant.

Fuck Halo 5 and it's button mashing "movement skill". You know a game with a good strafe is going to have short strafes, long strafes, mixed strafes, circle strafes, crouch strafes, etc. Not some bullshit one button press "oops made you miss!" button. Without thrust literally no one would ever miss a single BR shot. 

Get the fuck out of here. 

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50 minutes ago, hhhh said:

TIL that mashing my strafe keys in a random pattern takes more skill than "spamming" my thrust, nevermind that the thrust commits me to a set trajectory and has a long enough cooldown that I can realistically use it once per engagement. The bar for Halo movement skill is extremely low, but Halo 5 is the best it has ever been by far. To think otherwise is ignorant.

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maybe make the AR do very terrible damage but a multiplier for headshot damage on shields too. so a more skilled close range automatic weapon. have anti aim spread so if your aiming at the chest bullet magnetism will pull towards feet, and if aimed above head, it will pull above head. anyone play resistance1 fall of man on ps3? pretty good console areana type shooter and the starting weapon was sort of like an ar from halo but it felt like you could get some good skilled duels going

 

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33 minutes ago, xSociety said:

You know a game with a good strafe is going to have short strafes, long strafes, mixed strafes, circle strafes, crouch strafes, etc.

Reminded me of the spartan bot

 

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20 minutes ago, RatherSilentMr said:

Reminded me of the spartan bot

 

Funnily enough arrashi is actually a decent player so that says a lot about this games strafe abilities 

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24 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

We are open to splitgate because it's a halo-ish game that isn't developed by 343.

That's why its so funny!

24 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

Also halo 5 is trash absolute garbage dogshit and your joke of excuse for why thrust is ok is really silly. If it was any good they would have kept it in the game, but it was an absolute gimmick that 343 wisely decided to leave in the past. Plus, if you like thrust you can always to back and play halo 5 ;)

I didn't say H5 was actually good, I just mean relative to other games in the series. Remove thrust from Halo 5 and it still has deeper movement than any other Halo. Conserving momentum with slide and stabilize had a little nuance, unlike "classic" Halos that honestly have some of the weakest movement in the history of "competitive" FPS games. Inb4 epic crouch jump anti-clamber argument.

2 minutes ago, Pyroteq said:

I saw some high level play and it looked really good. I think it certainly would play better in objective games though when players are forced to move so they can't abuse the portals to keep on peak shooting.

It gets worse in objective modes. Go try to catch any decent oddball carrier while they portal nonstop around the map at the speed of light.

2 minutes ago, xSociety said:

Fuck Halo 5 and it's button mashing "movement skill". You know a game with a good strafe is going to have short strafes, long strafes, mixed strafes, circle strafes, crouch strafes, etc. Not some bullshit one button press "oops made you miss!" button. Without thrust literally no one would ever miss a single BR shot. 

Get the fuck out of here. 

Your "good strafe" is considered random in every respectable competitive FPS because outside of this forum nobody is delusional enough to think that strafing back and forth takes skill. You would throw a tantrum if 343 put something as powerful as Quake movement mechanics in Halo, but even Quake has slow ground acceleration and deceleration. The only relevant game that has instant acceleration is Overwatch, which is not a particularly shining example of competitive game design.

I'm not a huge H5 fan, but at least you could mind game a little and predict when the other guy was going to use his thrust, or try to force him to blow it early. There's no mind games with your sick strafe moves, nobody is sitting there thinking "Ah! xSociety is going to use his long strafe next, I've read him like a book and will adjust my aim in advance!" They're just reacting on the fly. If reaction time was the most important part of competitive gaming we would just be watching Kovaaks tournaments.

You shouldn't be getting this mad about Halo, man. It has never been more than Quake 4 Kidz, it isn't that serious, and its never too late to go play something else instead of raging into the void for yet another year.

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22 minutes ago, hhhh said:

That's why its so funny!

I didn't say H5 was actually good, I just mean relative to other games in the series. Remove thrust from Halo 5 and it still has deeper movement than any other Halo. Conserving momentum with slide and stabilize had a little nuance, unlike "classic" Halos that honestly have some of the weakest movement in the history of "competitive" FPS games. Inb4 epic crouch jump anti-clamber argument.

It gets worse in objective modes. Go try to catch any decent oddball carrier while they portal nonstop around the map at the speed of light.

Your "good strafe" is considered random in every respectable competitive FPS because outside of this forum nobody is delusional enough to think that strafing back and forth takes skill. You would throw a tantrum if 343 put something as powerful as Quake movement mechanics in Halo, but even Quake has slow ground acceleration and deceleration. The only relevant game that has instant acceleration is Overwatch, which is not a particularly shining example of competitive game design.

I'm not a huge H5 fan, but at least you could mind game a little and predict when the other guy was going to use his thrust, or try to force him to blow it early. There's no mind games with your sick strafe moves, nobody is sitting there thinking "Ah! xSociety is going to use his long strafe next, I've read him like a book and will adjust my aim in advance!" They're just reacting on the fly. If reaction time was the most important part of competitive gaming we would just be watching Kovaaks tournaments.

You shouldn't be getting this mad about Halo, man. It has never been more than Quake 4 Kidz, it isn't that serious, and its never too late to go play something else instead of raging into the void for yet another year.

Such bad takes I don't know where to even begin, holy shit. 

Gish gallop - Wikipedia

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32 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Who was it here that posted the reason why Halo 5 felt perpetually sweaty was because you had to press 17 buttons just to move around the map, let alone fight in it?

That person was dead on.

You see, each one of those 17 button presses just adds to the skillgap, nay, it multiples the skillgap! 

So in classic, boring, strafe only Halo the skillgap is exactly 1. Halo 5's skillgap on the other hand is 1 to the 17th power! 

 

Wait... fuck!

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36 minutes ago, hhhh said:

That's why its so funny!

I didn't say H5 was actually good, I just mean relative to other games in the series. Remove thrust from Halo 5 and it still has deeper movement than any other Halo. Conserving momentum with slide and stabilize had a little nuance, unlike "classic" Halos that honestly have some of the weakest movement in the history of "competitive" FPS games. Inb4 epic crouch jump anti-clamber argument.

It gets worse in objective modes. Go try to catch any decent oddball carrier while they portal nonstop around the map at the speed of light.

Your "good strafe" is considered random in every respectable competitive FPS because outside of this forum nobody is delusional enough to think that strafing back and forth takes skill. You would throw a tantrum if 343 put something as powerful as Quake movement mechanics in Halo, but even Quake has slow ground acceleration and deceleration. The only relevant game that has instant acceleration is Overwatch, which is not a particularly shining example of competitive game design.

I'm not a huge H5 fan, but at least you could mind game a little and predict when the other guy was going to use his thrust, or try to force him to blow it early. There's no mind games with your sick strafe moves, nobody is sitting there thinking "Ah! xSociety is going to use his long strafe next, I've read him like a book and will adjust my aim in advance!" They're just reacting on the fly. If reaction time was the most important part of competitive gaming we would just be watching Kovaaks tournaments.

You shouldn't be getting this mad about Halo, man. It has never been more than Quake 4 Kidz, it isn't that serious, and its never too late to go play something else instead of raging into the void for yet another year.

You are not convincing anyone.  We can see through your bullshit. 

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

I gotta be honest I want the next Flight already 

Same, I just want to see the perf improvements and what changes they've made already. 

I want to try out the other weapons too like that Brute Hand Cannon. 

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone claim halo is the highest skill game ever. The beauty was that it requires a unique balance of individual skill and teamwork that open up the possibility for strategies and meta strategies which are unlike most other games. This balance is absolutely ruined in h2 through h5 and those games are left in a sad no-mans-land of not requiring much individual skill and simplistic/linear optimal decisions that don’t requiring any complex problem solving or meta-strategies. I’m not talking about map setups when I say strategies btw. Comparing it to quake is really really stupid. Both are good games and take skill in very different ways (except halo 5)

Plus the complexity to “skill” ratio for halo 5 is absolutely fucked, whereas that ratio for halo 1 is actually quite impressive for any game.

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If you read his POV it does make sense. It genuinely does make sense. I do not believe it to be accurate, but if you take a step back and read it objectively I understand where it is coming from.

1 hour ago, hhhh said:

There's no mind games with your sick strafe moves, nobody is sitting there thinking "Ah! xSociety is going to use his long strafe next, I've read him like a book and will adjust my aim in advance!" They're just reacting on the fly. If reaction time was the most important part of competitive gaming we would just be watching Kovaaks tournaments.

I disagree with this as thruster back adds a huge level of randomness to where a player will be for the duration of the duel. Yes, I agree the mind games is itself a skill, but predicting high-tier players thrust-pack direction is impossible. Top tier players will try their best to not fall into predictable patterns. Randomness is not good for competitive games, consistency is more important. With normal strafe, the direction is still random in the context of a duel, but the difference is that you know the exact distance and speed they can move in any direction at all times. There is still skill involved, but less randomness because there is no ability to just flash your entire being in a random direction, especially in mid-air.

Additionally, to counter this the aim assist was turned up to 11, probably because in playtesting they found the average player couldn't hit thrusting people consistently enough. I'm not talking bad players either, I'm talking average players who are by definition not particularly bad, but not particularly good either.

1 hour ago, hhhh said:

You shouldn't be getting this mad about Halo, man. It has never been more than Quake 4 Kidz, it isn't that serious, and its never too late to go play something else instead of raging into the void for yet another year.

"I'm not confident enough in my arguments' merits, so I'm going to throw some insults in as an attempt to drop the rationality of the responses."

 

Also can we stop pretending Halo was ever competitive?

Halo 1 and 2 were competitive by fluke, not by design.
Halo 3 was competitive by popularity, not by design.
Halo: Reach was competitive by de-facto sequelitis and then killed competitive Halo.
Halo 4 double-tapped competitive Halo by being not even a Halo game on top of not being a good competitive title.
Halo 5 was competitive through half-assed tournaments but it's main money maker and draw was Warzone. It could have been a decent competitive game, but it wasn't.

Infinite is the same. It will be de-facto competitive due to popularity, not design. Can we just let go of the myth that Halo is competitive?

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I can't argue there. I don't have even remotely close to enough time to get to high level in any games at the moment.

TBH what he described was obvious even to me, MrCasualWithAFunGun.

Portals at will make paths of opportunities far too easy whether those are paths for escape or paths to bend and twist the space time continuum of the map to flank from behind in just a few steps. This becomes obvious once you see it for the first time at any level.

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Who was it here that posted the reason why Halo 5 felt perpetually sweaty was because you had to press 17 buttons just to move around the map, let alone fight in it?

That person was dead on.

I didn’t know there were 17 buttons on my controller.

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1 hour ago, hhhh said:

...

It gets worse in objective modes. Go try to catch any decent oddball carrier while they portal nonstop around the map at the speed of light.

....

After reading this I remember playing odd ball a couple times on a map that I wasn’t found of but it had a little cubby room with two doors IIRC and I would hide in there with the ball as my team kept the doors clear. If they died I would jump threw my portal and close it so I would be across the map. They couldn’t follow and wouldn’t be able to catch up easily. And if they did follow me I was waiting to melee them.

that was actually a good objective game to have possession. But again it was exploiting the game mechanics to hell.

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1 hour ago, RatherSilentMr said:

You are not convincing anyone.  We can see through your bullshit. 

Think he’s trying to get back into the closet?

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