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Halo Infinite Discussion

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35 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Infinite needs server tick rates of 128, and at least 60 for BTB.

valorant plays so good because of this. 60 isn’t bad but 128 is just that much better 

When their servers stopped working the other day lowkey I realized that peer to peer is better for me on MCC. Like actually A LOT better which surprised me. Obviously when I pull host it makes some sense but any reasonable host felt way better than the dedicated servers do for me. It was shocking I would like back to back 4 people and just sit there like "holy shit that actually connected" which leads me to believe whatever dedicated server solution MCC has going is far from being optimal.

I've begun to suspect those weird games on dedicated servers that feel like LAN for me are in fact the dedicated servers going down and the game falling back to p2p for a game. Either way though hopefully Infinite does better. I get roughly 800 up and down and a ping from 10 to 50 with essentially no packet loss depending on the part of the country I'm connecting to and there is just no reason that dedicated servers should have registration that is visibly subpar somewhat regularly. Can't tell me East US 2 has a ping of 10 and I get blained through a wall a quarter of a second later and watch people shoot walls with snipe every single game and go 1 shot including when its me shooting the wall and killing people. That shit is wild and something is wrong lol. Just MCC things I guess

I need to drop the montage "East US 2" and just have 20 minutes of watching people get peeled through walls

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29 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

When their servers stopped working the other day lowkey I realized that peer to peer is better for me on MCC. Like actually A LOT better which surprised me. Obviously when I pull host it makes some sense but any reasonable host felt way better than the dedicated servers do for me. It was shocking I would like back to back 4 people and just sit there like "holy shit that actually connected" which leads me to believe whatever dedicated server solution MCC has going is far from being optimal.

I've begun to suspect those weird games on dedicated servers that feel like LAN for me are in fact the dedicated servers going down and the game falling back to p2p for a game. Either way though hopefully Infinite does better. I get roughly 800 up and down and a ping from 10 to 50 with essentially no packet loss depending on the part of the country I'm connecting to and there is just no reason that dedicated servers should have registration that is visibly subpar somewhat regularly. Can't tell me East US 2 has a ping of 10 and I get blained through a wall a quarter of a second later and watch people shoot walls with snipe every single game and go 1 shot including when its me shooting the wall and killing people. That shit is wild and something is wrong lol. Just MCC things I guess

I need to drop the montage "East US 2" and just have 20 minutes of watching people get peeled through walls

I haven’t played mcc in months, I’m just waiting for infinite I need a modern halo, 

but I don’t doubt what you say. 

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35 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

When their servers stopped working the other day lowkey I realized that peer to peer is better for me on MCC. Like actually A LOT better which surprised me. Obviously when I pull host it makes some sense but any reasonable host felt way better than the dedicated servers do for me. It was shocking I would like back to back 4 people and just sit there like "holy shit that actually connected" which leads me to believe whatever dedicated server solution MCC has going is far from being optimal.

I've begun to suspect those weird games on dedicated servers that feel like LAN for me are in fact the dedicated servers going down and the game falling back to p2p for a game. Either way though hopefully Infinite does better. I get roughly 800 up and down and a ping from 10 to 50 with essentially no packet loss depending on the part of the country I'm connecting to and there is just no reason that dedicated servers should have registration that is visibly subpar somewhat regularly. Can't tell me East US 2 has a ping of 10 and I get blained through a wall a quarter of a second later and watch people shoot walls with snipe every single game and go 1 shot including when its me shooting the wall and killing people. That shit is wild and something is wrong lol. Just MCC things I guess

I need to drop the montage "East US 2" and just have 20 minutes of watching people get peeled through walls

Well if you're host of course it's going to feel better, no matter what game. 

Dedicated servers are more fair for everybody since the host is neutral. Yes, your proximity to the host can give you an edge but nowhere near as big as being the actual host. 

 

Edit: For your feelings on other peer hosts I think it's either placebo or the host is much closer to you than the MCC servers. 

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14 minutes ago, xSociety said:

Well if you're host of course it's going to feel better, no matter what game. 

Dedicated servers are more fair for everybody since the host is neutral. Yes, your proximity to the host can give you an edge but nowhere near as big as being the actual host. 

 

Edit: For your feelings on other peer hosts I think it's either placebo or the host is much closer to you than the MCC servers. 

I have a theory that something is wrong with the game registering walls in general. It makes sense when someone just barely turns a corner including myself and they die. That's just typical online stuff we've all seen thousands of times. The parts that confuse me are when on my own screen I pull out snipe and straight up shoot a wall and a headshot medal pops up and a guy is dead somewhere 

https://giant.gfycat.com/CavernousBlueKawala.mp4

 

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Just now, Snipe Three said:

I have a theory that something is wrong with the game registering walls in general. It makes sense when someone just barely turns a corner including myself and they die. That's just typical online stuff we've all seen thousands of times. The parts that confuse me are when on my own screen I pull out snipe and straight up shoot a wall and a headshot medal pops up and a guy is dead somewhere 

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CavernousBlueKawala-mobile.mp4

That clip looks like the game when I play on UK servers. Is that from a local server for you? 

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4 minutes ago, xSociety said:

That clip looks like the game when I play on UK servers. Is that from a local server for you? 

Yup that is what dedicated servers specifically look like for me a lot of the time and its confusing because through any sort of networking tests things are fine or anyone's p2p host in customs its just never like that. Obviously other games etc aren't a problem either its just MCC specifically. That one was just funny enough to record but its pretty old at this point

I suppose a more logical explanation is that there is some sort of weird throttling/ip traffic between my ISP and the azure servers that I'm assuming MCC runs on

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:


1. Never noticed it, it’s not good enough especially compared to bullet tracers

You see that’s my problem. I shouldn’t have to do any of that to be accurate with my aim. I don’t have to do that in any other game or any other halo. Most I like to think just want to shoot center mass at all times. It’s one reason for desire of centered cross hair. Now someone who’s played it for years probably has the muscle memory to do what you just explained but I do not. And since no halo or any other game out there requires such bs I won’t dedicate myself to obtain that skill. 

Uhhh

JFC... 

Halo 3, the most popular Halo of all time, is projectile. 

Apex Legends and COD MW 2019 is mostly projectile from what I've read.

Battlefield series. 

Fortnite has projectile snipers. I think PUBG as well? 

Far Cry. 

 

If you want to avoid games that aren't hitscan, that's fine. I would play either, but I prefer projectile and it's definitely a thing in many popular shooters. 

I'm just laughing imagining a real life soldier complaining that they can't just point their gun at center mass of a moving target at long range and hit the shots. It's a ridiculous complaint to me. It's not that difficult to adjust to projectile. It's intuitive if you have any understanding of physics. 

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20 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

Uhhh

JFC... 

Halo 3, the most popular Halo of all time, is projectile. 

Apex Legends and COD MW 2019 is mostly projectile from what I've read.

Battlefield series. 

Fortnite has projectile snipers. I think PUBG as well? 

Far Cry. 

 

If you want to avoid games that aren't hitscan, that's fine. I would play either, but I prefer projectile and it's definitely a thing in many popular shooters. 

I'm just laughing imagining a real life soldier complaining that they can't just point their gun at center mass of a moving target at long range and hit the shots. It's a ridiculous complaint to me. It's not that difficult to adjust to projectile. It's intuitive if you have any understanding of physics. 

That’s not what I said at all. The way you have to lead shots is completely different compared to your average shooter especially all you just listed

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3 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

That’s not what I said at all. The way you have to lead shots is completely different compared to your average shooter especially all you just listed

No it's not 

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in my experience you have to lead your shots a lot more in halo 3 than in any of those other shooters listed, especially at long distances. projectile with apex legends level speed would be satisfying imo

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4 minutes ago, vembress said:

in my experience you have to lead your shots a lot more in halo 3 than in any of those other shooters listed, especially at long distances. projectile with apex legends level speed would be satisfying imo

If Halo was scaled appropriately ie without elongated maps, projectile speed on most weapons could be kept relatively low…because they don’t ever need to travel very far.  

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30 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

No it's not 

Say what you want but the way you lead in ce isn’t the same as other games. Just because it may technically be like others doesn’t mean it feels the same. Do you understand that? Leading h1 feels differently than h3. I don’t care if it’s the same on paper it doesn’t feel the same which is what matters 

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58 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

I'm just laughing imagining a real life soldier complaining that they can't just point their gun at center mass of a moving target at long range and hit the shots. It's a ridiculous complaint to me. It's not that difficult to adjust to projectile. It's intuitive if you have any understanding of physics. 

Really? I'm just laughing imagining a real life soldier shitting his pants because he's danger close but can't sprint away.

"lmfao those sweaty tryhards get so mad over super soldiers being able to sprint. real ones can."

And for once, Reamis is right. Of course the way you lead shots between games is different; each game and even each weapon within said games is going to have varying velocities, different optimal FoVs which affect perceived distance, varying aim-assist mechanisms, and more.

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9 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Really? I'm just laughing imagining a real life soldier shitting his pants because he's danger close but can't sprint away.

"lmfao those sweaty tryhards get so mad over super soldiers being able to sprint. real ones can."

Your IQ is danger close to room temperature.  

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I'm saying that the "real life soldier" argument is seen on /r/halo and is laughably dumb casual rhetoric. You don't do nuance nor subtext well. I'm also right about my point about how leading feels and you know I am.

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13 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

I'm saying that the "real life soldier" argument is seen on /r/halo and is laughably dumb. You don't do nuance nor subtext well.

If you try stating your opinion in a succinct, direct manner, I might be able to understand one of your posts.  

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That was like my shortest post yet with an opinion within. If I have to dumb myself down further than that for you, then I'm going to need to get in touch with Frank O'Connor so he can give me the Halo 4 treatment, friend.

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Do you.  But even now, I have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.  

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Your attempts to troll have a modicum of nuance. If you're capable of that then I know you're capable of understanding me. But this is the last banter post on this topic from me because I'm not trying to spam. You're a riot sometimes though. Let's chew the fat on the real, yeah? My Discord is ζ͜͡Perihellion#1656 if you care.

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No thanks.  I’m fine with talking about Halo on a Halo forum.  We don’t need to become group chat buddies.  

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I'm going to spread some knowledge here on how networking works and hopefully it'll dispel some of the stupidity around the "inconsistencies" of projectile.

 

When you create an online game, there are basically 2 choices you have.  You can have the networking favor the shooter, or favor the better connection.

 

What this means is if you favor the shooter, is that when you see somebody on your screen and you shoot them, it's a hit.  You dealt damage.  It doesn't matter if you're lagging and on the other player's screen they had already rounded the corner; if it hit on your end, it's a hit on the server.  The downsides to this method is exactly what I just described.  This can create scenarios that you'll see a lot in games like Apex, or Destiny, where you are running away and are clearly around the corner or behind cover but still took damage because on the other player's screen, you hadn't done that yet.  So they shot you, now you took damage.  That's networking that Favors Shooter.  Most games now use this, like the 2 I just mentioned... and basically every other game with decent networking.  When someone first explained this to me I was like ew no yuck, why would you ever want that.  Until the alternative was expained.

 

Favoring better connection is exactly what it sounds like, you might lead a shot and have a good hit on your screen, but the server (or in P2P, it just goes to the host player) and asks "Were they actually standing where they were on your screen when you shot them? No? No hit then." This is what Halo has historically used and to be honest it's really bad.  First of all - this is why it has always felt like you had to relearn how much to lead your shots every match. Because every time you get into a new game with a new "best connection", you are adjusting how far to lead to compensate for where the player "really is" to land your shots.  Which is dumb because you can never acquire a muscle memory or knowledge of actually where to aim.

It almost sounds more fair, but it really isn't.  Because first of all, no one chooses to have a bad internet connection.  Whether it's 90% packet loss and 1mb down, or maybe they're like...10ms slower ping than you, we all have different internet.  Just because yours is faster, does not mean you are seeing the 'truth'.  Because, assuming you are the "best connection" in the lobby and the server is checking results against you,  the player's you are shooting at with a worse connection are also not where you are seeing them.  You are also still receiving signals as to where they just changed directions and moved behind stuff, and their signals take longer to reach you.  So similarly, they are also being shot behind cover but potentially for way longer.  And it's a 1 way advantage.  There is no truth in online networking.  There's your story, their story, and then some kind of weird blobby mesh of the two that you kinda pick from.

 

This is why favoring shooter is what most games use, and it makes shot registration feel super crispy and projectile leading very consistent. Because if you see it on your end, it's a hit! Basically no different than playing on LAN (faster, in some situations) because all that matters is if it hit on your screen. Halo hasn't used favoring shooter as far as I'm aware, which is why you get stuff like bloodshots even on LAN.  Your console will do local predictions of where the bullet is going to intersect and spawn the blood particles on collision before it even confirms if the "Best Connection" player is where they were on your screen.  I would like to see Halo flip to favoring shooter, which I think is a much better solution.

 

The only game I've heard of where it diverges from these - is Overwatch.  They use "Favor shooter" until there is a large ping discrepancy between players.  So if someone you are shooting at is 30 ping, and you're 120 ping, for those confirms the game will flip and say "Your connection is an outlier, confirm the other player's position for this instance".  And as far as I can tell from playing OW it works really well and is a very intelligent solution.

 

Hopefully this explains why shot leading in Halo actually does feel a little bit different than other games.  Sorry I had to agree with Raemis on this one guys lmao

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8 hours ago, Rdispushedback said:

What is the point in having something else tell you someone died?

You have a point though. People are against radar because it largely interferes with the team work aspect of competitive play, yet another game mechanic that negates team work quantity is okay? Don't tell me that the Red X is quintessential Halo because the legend himself Cursed Lemon is on the record saying that no manner of feature long established in Halo is quintessential due to its seniority. I need answers, people.

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5 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

You have a point though. People are against radar because it largely interferes with the team work aspect of competitive play, yet another game mechanic that negates team work quantity is okay? Don't tell me that the Red X is quintessential Halo because the legend himself Cursed Lemon is on the record saying that no manner of feature long established in Halo is quintessential due to its seniority.

The Red X lowers the skill floor without affecting the skill ceiling.  This is good.  

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