Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

This was tried for the Vanu Sovereignty in PlanetSide 2 -- since one of their faction bonuses was that their rifles were not affected by gravity, to help give the "laser technology" vibes.

...when it came out on Shotguns, which even with the slug damage reduction could consistently kill in 2-3 shots at range, they realized this was a bad idea and patched in gravity on Vanu slugs.

Edit for more context: But you were also able to mod in a 6x scope on it, which was weaker than the best rifle scopes but still absurd for a Shotgun in a massive game like that.

I contemplated between hitscan and projectile arcing. I'm not sure. What is PS2's movement speed and abilities like? Strafe acceleration? I was also only considering controller play, too. I'm not very sure if this would be a copacetic addition to the sandbox if KB/M is thrown into the mix.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, hvs500 said:

Seems incredibly redundant and purposeless.

I agree that it's a fucking stupid ass idea that literally no one with an ounce of sense left would suggest, but I think you could have communicated that in a less toxic way.

  • Toxic (+1) 8
  • WutFace (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/26/2021 at 11:20 AM, Hemlax said:

I would say the game just wasn't finished / wasn't up to certain standards. It was good move nevertheless.

I think the quality of the campaign (or at least the broad perception of the campaign) was a giant filter preventing more casual players from ever being exposed to what was actually a pretty competitive and deep multiplayer experience. Hard to say what the "good move" is though - depends on how you define success because the game was a success in lots of ways but a failure in just as many. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Rdispushedback said:

I just saw the new Battlefied teaser and I was more excited and impressed with it then Infinite.

Off you pop then.

  • Like (+1) 9

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Hot take: shotguns should not be projectile. It makes them feel completely unintuitive even in their intended range.

If they have to be projectile it should be lightning fast up front and then a parabolic drop-off in projectile speed out far.

This is probably one of the first things we're very opposite on. 

Share this post


Link to post

People who hate projectile shot guns hate them because it feels inconsistent 

there were obvious differences of the scattershot and shot gun. The shot gun was consistent af but was too good because of that fact. The inconsistency of the Scatter is why it was in hcs. It only appeared weaker when it wasn’t. It could one shot kill in the same range as the human shot gun, it just wasn’t consistent 

Share this post


Link to post

Projectile weapons are not inconsistent.  People need to stop describing them this way.  They are as perfectly consistent as hitscan.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Hot take: shotguns should not be projectile. It makes them feel completely unintuitive even in their intended range.

If they have to be projectile it should be lightning fast up front and then a parabolic drop-off in projectile speed out far.

+1 for proper use of "hot take"

I liked the design of the Scattershot in H5 -- it had a consistent shot pattern, ways to improve control of it for mastery (that doubled as a way to make it semi-competitive outside of CQB), and had nuance to its use thanks to the scope+bounce mechanic of tracking.  Also gave it additional areas of usefulness that no other non-explosive gun had, with the ability to hit behind cover.

I'm more on the fence on projectile speed dropoff though.  On one hand: It definitely serves the purpose of keeping the shotgun in an intended range and crippling it outside the range.

On the other hand...counter-hot take: I don't think shotguns in any FPS should be designed in a way that makes them useless outside an immediate CQB range.  It's poor weapon balance and even worse player onboarding to design a weapon that is the equivalent to E.Honda slaps or Chun Li kicks: easy to use, even easier to counter, but actively encourages the player to play the game worse (read: camping, generally).  By designing shotgun-type weapons in a way that makes them competitive (but still at a disadvantage) in medium range engagements, like the Scattershot or with any sort of Slug-type alt-fire, you enable more options to use the weapon aggressively, because being caught in the open with the weapon isn't a guaranteed death sentence.

By giving players shotguns that don't work outside of short range, you're also teaching them it's okay to only exert pressure on a small chunk of the map instead of teaching them to play the entire map or exert as much pressure as possible.  And while players will generally figure out the best choke points or high-importance areas to try to use that, they're still not learning good fundamental gameplay in the process.  I don't think it's good game design to teach players to be inefficient.

  • Like (+1) 7
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

I don't think shotguns in any FPS should be designed in a way that makes them useless outside an immediate CQB range.

Utility is a 4sk Magnum.  Shotgun fires a utility shot surrounded by low damage pellets that quickly expand and disappear.  Strong up close but still retains utility outside that.  

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

This is probably one of the first things we're very opposite on. 

 

42 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

+1 for proper use of "hot take"

I liked the design of the Scattershot in H5 -- it had a consistent shot pattern, ways to improve control of it for mastery (that doubled as a way to make it semi-competitive outside of CQB), and had nuance to its use thanks to the scope+bounce mechanic of tracking.  Also gave it additional areas of usefulness that no other non-explosive gun had, with the ability to hit behind cover.

I'm more on the fence on projectile speed dropoff though.  On one hand: It definitely serves the purpose of keeping the shotgun in an intended range and crippling it outside the range.

You can possibly tack this down to confusing implementation but I've had too many experiences in game where all other projectile weapons feel fine and function organically, but when it comes time to whip out the shotgun and fire it off within its intended range (where it should almost feel like a hitscan weapon anyway due to the incredibly short distance it has to take) I find myself shooting the wall two feet behind the player even though I pointed my reticule directly at them. It just doesn't make any intuitive sense and basically takes shotguns completely out of consideration for me when deciding what to roll with.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/26/2021 at 11:30 PM, Faeyrin said:

 think Infinite will have a proper silver-perimeter to it. And if someone just can't enjoy it anymore because of their own tastes, then they'll have to do what they have to do with everything else in this fleeting life. Consign this franchise to the ever fondly bittersweet annals of memory. Move on to greener pastures that cause less heartache instead of supposing that they'll forever remain warm within the ribcage of the carcass of a rotting horse that keeps getting whacked. Instead of deciding to sew themselves shut from the inside, then, and letting the hot air they huff out suffocate them in time. The oxygen availability wanes, and their brain begins to fail and forget that the only thing keeping them inside the putrid remains is themselves. Bewildered now they can't understand why they're now finding maggots and flies, but punching and kicking down at them seems to help this macabre squatter cope with their current reality. All the while, the horse has gone cold. One day they realize the warmth is gone. The holes have begun to show in the long departed equine and it's dark and cold outside now. The sunshine of the past has become night.

Eat your heart out, Greg Kirkpatrick.

I don't downvote you because I "disagree". There's plenty of posts here I disagree with but respect because there's thought to them. 

I downvote you for posting poorly conceived ideas, then wanking yourself off with pseudo-intellectual posts like this decrying our perspective on what Halo should be from a competitive standpoint. 

  • Like (+1) 3
  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Heavy Breathing (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1
  • Hooked 1

Share this post


Link to post

All you need to do to limit a shotgun properly is give it (non RNG) spread, require every pellet to hit for a kill (or close to it), figure out how far away you want the max OHK to be, and adjust the spread accordingly. Just adjust the spread and the number of pellets.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

 

You can possibly tack this down to confusing implementation but I've had too many experiences in game where all other projectile weapons feel fine and function organically, but when it comes time to whip out the shotgun and fire it off within its intended range (where it should almost feel like a hitscan weapon anyway due to the incredibly short distance it has to take) I find myself shooting the wall two feet behind the player even though I pointed my reticule directly at them. It just doesn't make any intuitive sense and basically takes shotguns completely out of consideration for me when deciding what to roll with.

I have stupid hands so I can never know if I'm failing to kill because I suck or if I'm failing to kill because of bad weapon design.

...so I usually just blame lag.

  • Simms (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

You can possibly tack this down to confusing implementation but I've had too many experiences in game where all other projectile weapons feel fine and function organically, but when it comes time to whip out the shotgun and fire it off within its intended range (where it should almost feel like a hitscan weapon anyway due to the incredibly short distance it has to take) I find myself shooting the wall two feet behind the player even though I pointed my reticule directly at them. It just doesn't make any intuitive sense and basically takes shotguns completely out of consideration for me when deciding what to roll with.

A slow moving volley of low damage projectiles is an interesting attack but only when paired with ricochet and an explosive alt-fire ala Flak Cannon so it can be used to push and trap targets as they attempt to use cover.  

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

A slow moving volley of low damage projectiles is an interesting attack but only when paired with ricochet and an explosive alt-fire ala Flak Cannon so it can be used to push and trap targets as they attempt to use cover.  

tenor.gif?itemid=11401460

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

 

You can possibly tack this down to confusing implementation but I've had too many experiences in game where all other projectile weapons feel fine and function organically, but when it comes time to whip out the shotgun and fire it off within its intended range (where it should almost feel like a hitscan weapon anyway due to the incredibly short distance it has to take) I find myself shooting the wall two feet behind the player even though I pointed my reticule directly at them. It just doesn't make any intuitive sense and basically takes shotguns completely out of consideration for me when deciding what to roll with.

You ever use shotguns in Apex? 

I think the Infinite shotgun will play a lot like the EVA. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Rdispushedback said:

What is the point in having something else tell you someone died?

In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name.  His name is Red X.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Projectile weapons are not inconsistent.  People need to stop describing them this way.  They are as perfectly consistent as hitscan.

Depends on what your definition or feeling of consistent. Projectile online is inconsistent because of lag, hitscan also makes your bullets go where you directly aim. Tbh I like having to lead shots but only at long range, no strafe should require me to lead at close to mid range. 
@Boyo I remember when the game first came out and shot guns could have tons of ammo. Although peace keeper did more damage, if you had solid aim that Eva was really good. 
@Rdispushedback it’s good for the game to tell you if someone died because it’s good feedback, and offers no advantage or disadvantage. Now in a BR I’d say differently. If you kill someone you’re more likely to push a squad now that you’ve downed a person. 
 

Just because on paper projectile is consistent as hitscan, doesn’t mean the two feel the same. I have no experience on CE OG Xbox(lol didn’t even have one I had a ps2 first halo I played was h2 at my buddy’s place) but from what I know here the pistol doesn’t work the same as it did on OG. The pistol feels inconsistent. I can’t tell where my billets go because there’s no bullet tracers, so I’m lost in a loop how I should aim with a crosshair that’s super big for some reason.(hell one ce says I should aim with the edge, one says center, like WTH! God I hate this weapon) If I play h5 I know exactly where to aim, it’s hitscan it gives a consistent feeling. 
but my experience on apex has been solid. I can use the wingman pretty good, I know how to aim it, for the most part it and everything else feels consistent. I only need to lead outside the appropriate ranges

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, xSociety said:

You ever use shotguns in Apex? 

I think the Infinite shotgun will play a lot like the EVA. 

x4vmBOv.png

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Depends on what your definition or feeling of consistent. Projectile online is inconsistent because of lag, hitscan also makes your bullets go where you directly aim. Tbh I like having to lead shots but only at long range, no strafe should require me to lead at close to mid range. 
@Boyo I remember when the game first came out and shot guns could have tons of ammo. Although peace keeper did more damage, if you had solid aim that Eva was really good. 
@Rdispushedback it’s good for the game to tell you if someone died because it’s good feedback, and offers no advantage or disadvantage. Now in a BR I’d say differently. If you kill someone you’re more likely to push a squad now that you’ve downed a person. 
 

Just because on paper projectile is consistent as hitscan, doesn’t mean the two feel the same. I have no experience on CE OG Xbox(lol didn’t even have one I had a ps2 first halo I played was h2 at my buddy’s place) but from what I know here the pistol doesn’t work the same as it did on OG. The pistol feels inconsistent. I can’t tell where my billets go because there’s no bullet tracers, so I’m lost in a loop how I should aim with a crosshair that’s super big for some reason.(hell one ce says I should aim with the edge, one says center, like WTH! God I hate this weapon) If I play h5 I know exactly where to aim, it’s hitscan it gives a consistent feeling. 
but my experience on apex has been solid. I can use the wingman pretty good, I know how to aim it, for the most part it and everything else feels consistent. I only need to lead outside the appropriate ranges

There's a bullet spark behind the guy if you miss.

 

If they're far away and moving in one direction, put the edge of the reticle on them. They will run into the bullet and magnetism will assist too. 

If they're closer then you can put the center of the reticle on them. Or if you're trying to predict where they're about to strafe then line up the edge of the reticle and fire. Sometimes I just put the edge on them and fire at the same spot if I expect they'll eventually strafe into that spot too. I do this a lot on hang em high during base to base fights when they're trying to go back to cover. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

There's a bullet spark behind the guy if you miss.

 

If they're far away and moving in one direction, put the edge of the reticle on them. They will run into the bullet and magnetism will assist too. 

If they're closer then you can put the center of the reticle on them. Or if you're trying to predict where they're about to strafe then line up the edge of the reticle and fire. Sometimes I just put the edge on them and fire at the same spot if I expect they'll eventually strafe into that spot too. I do this a lot on hang em high during base to base fights when they're trying to go back to cover. 


1. Never noticed it, it’s not good enough especially compared to bullet tracers

You see that’s my problem. I shouldn’t have to do any of that to be accurate with my aim. I don’t have to do that in any other game or any other halo. Most I like to think just want to shoot center mass at all times. It’s one reason for desire of centered cross hair. Now someone who’s played it for years probably has the muscle memory to do what you just explained but I do not. And since no halo or any other game out there requires such bs I won’t dedicate myself to obtain that skill. 

  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Projectile weapons are not inconsistent.  People need to stop describing them this way.  They are as perfectly consistent as hitscan.

especially given the proliferation of dedicated servers / non-P2P networking in online multiplayer games. They are tools in your game dev tool box and each bring their own strengths and weaknesses to the table - one isn't objectively better than the other. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Infinite needs server tick rates of 128, and at least 60 for BTB.

valorant plays so good because of this. 60 isn’t bad but 128 is just that much better 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.