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Halo Infinite Discussion

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57 minutes ago, heytred said:

It was cut to pieces and shortened to help get the game out on time

It's clear by the delay of Halo Infinite past the XSX that Microsoft understands that Halo needs to be successful on it's own rather than just be a game to sell Xbox consoles. 

I would say the game just wasn't finished / wasn't up to certain standards. It was good move nevertheless.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

I'm not sure why people are fascinated with the idea of making halo more like 90s arena shooters. Halo is hardly an arena shooter to begin with.

It's not, but it's closer to that than to any other type of shooter. Let's just say coming from Q3 and UT i enjoyed the style very much.

Halo is beast of it's own.

I am very interested to see how smart the bots will be and what will be the options there. Playing with bots was pretty much regular way how many ppl played those games.

...

Any of you guys played Time Splitters series? So much fun, so much diversity. Campaign, custom games, minigames, multiplayer, bots, level editor...loved it much like I do Halo. 

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3 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Watched this video a year back and it's had a lasting effect on what my opinion of an ideal Halo PvE's like. 

I've gone from wanting a traditional campaign with CE design to a blend of Unreal (1998) and the best aspects of Halo. 

Think about it: A game with vast, massive and intricately detailed environments that reward exploration, razor-sharply tuned PvE combat that makes Doom: Eternal feel like a COD game, all with the legacy Halo aesthetic, worldbuilding, environmental art, setpieces, and soundtrack.  

Kind of like SPV3 but with the alleged scale of Infinite's PvE, a more comprehensively designed sandbox and the absolute best parts of AFPS design spliced into it's DNA. 

LMAO that outro song is pure gold

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1 hour ago, Hemlax said:

Any of you guys played Time Splitters series? So much fun, so much diversity. Campaign, custom games, minigames, multiplayer, bots, level editor...loved it much like I do Halo. 

Bot matches in timesplitters 2 and red faction 2 were my first introduction to deathmatch modes in FPS games.

I'm actually pretty excited about bots in Halo infinite, but only if we have custom game options to completely overhaul the experience - no sprint, no clamber, 3sk pistols with long range, map maker, etc... 

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42 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Bot matches in timesplitters 2 and red faction 2 were my first introduction to deathmatch modes in FPS games.

I'm actually pretty excited about bots in Halo infinite, but only if we have custom game options to completely overhaul the experience - no sprint, no clamber, 3sk pistols with long range, map maker, etc... 

Can't see bots using grapple hook and other equipment effectively at all. Hope they are not just useless punching bags.

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It's going to have to be much better AI than Halo has ever had before, unless it's merely meant to be a Halo preschool typeshit where it's basically "look this is how you win a match, by shooting at the enemy!" deal. I don't know how well they'll be able to program bots meant to mimic real players because real players can be very unpredictable in any game, never mind Halo. If there's difficulty settings, I want Legendary bots doing MLG crouch jumps and map control and everything.

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3 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

It's going to have to be much better AI than Halo has ever had before, unless it's merely meant to be a Halo preschool typeshit where it's basically "look this is how you win a match, by shooting at the enemy!" deal. I don't know how well they'll be able to program bots meant to mimic real players because real players can be very unpredictable in any game, never mind Halo. If there's difficulty settings, I want Legendary bots doing MLG crouch jumps and map control and everything.

I feel it will just mirror what Rogue Company has done with their bots making them simply firing range / "thumbless timmy" equivalent skill level to cater to the lowest common denominator. I want to be hopeful for something better than this but the baseline of them working as firing range dummies will likely be serviceable enough for them to keep any further improvements low priority at best.

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22 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

I don't agree with your logic here on caring more about the spectator experience vs player experience, even for competitive settings, but I agree with your assertion that camping is inherently bad...and I want to use this opportunity to shift the topic focus to something else that should be addressed in -any- competitive discussion:

I think the main question that should be asked, though is, "Is movement encouraged?"

If the answer is ever "No." for both contenders at the same time, then you have a design issue that needs addressed...because either

  1. There's no resource in the game worth fighting over.
  2. You've created a resource imbalance that one side cannot engage against, but the other cannot guarantee success with.

To me, this is why Slayer is such an inherently bad gametype, and why its issues got so exposed on maps like Penance, Pit, and Construct.  The scoring mechanism is "Do not die." which inherently puts value in staying alive over gathering resources.  You may think the scoring mechanism is, "Get kills" but you're wrong, because you can win a game of Team Slayer without ever getting a kill if your opponents ever make a mistake and suicide or betray a teammate -- because the death is punished with a negative 1.  If you have the lead in Pit Slayer, but the enemy team are all alive, you have no reason to attempt to push, because your resource advantages can be lost in the hunt to kill, and the map's nature means that can turn over the power seesaw to your opponent without necessarily giving you the scoring lead.

 

So when it comes to the conversation of storing power-ups, the conversation needs to be handled in the context of:

Does being able to apply a power-up later encourage me to move nowAnd usually, the answer will be no.  And to be frank, the only time it's really beneficial for a team to use it immediately when they could save it for later is if there's another resource on the map immediately ready to be contested.  In Slayer, this might mean a power weapon that spawns on the other side of the map, but in general things end up staggered on most spawns in a way that you'll almost always be encouraged to save for a later push.

In objective gametypes, this is less the case.  Your OS gathered now might not help you protect your current hill, or even contest a hill currently held -- but can better equip your team to take advantages on the upcoming rotation...but unless you're grabbing it on the tail end of a hill cycle, you're probably better off using it to push immediately.  In a Strongholds game, the objectives themselves encourage so much movement that holding-for-later is a risk in and of itself because you're very likely to get forced into a contest somewhere in the process of staying alive -- unless you're in a massive lead already and sitting on a dead spot of the map.  In Bomb/Flag, you're more likely to have calm windows where you're encouraged to hold and wait for the ability to coordinate a push around power weapon usage.

 

So in essence, the ability to conserve power-ups for later is just further doubling down on accenting why certain gametypes are worse than others: it does not actively encourage movement, and in situations where the power level seesaw is not tipped heavily enough in one team's favor, it actively discourages it until a time where stronger resources can be gathered.

If the problem is inherent, that means it can't be fixed. But you can easily fix this issue.

Power weapons should have a quicker spawn time in Slayer. Power ups will be used faster because players will most likely use them to get the next power weapon. But have power ups on a slower spawn time that way they won't decide every single battle for the power weapons. Of course, I'd say most of us have already thought power weapons should spawn quicker in general, but Slayer matches especially won't come to a standstill if power weapons are spawning in every minute. That also means Slayer matches will finish up faster. Plus, it makes the gametype more exciting to play and watch.

Slayer is not inherently bad. It just needs some tinkering to make it work properly.

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Wonder if we can make now gametypes with Ai NPC ? That would open tons of new interesting possibilities. At least in customs. Halo Dota, here we go.

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Food for thought: some people here use the downvote function as a "disagree" button instead of a "this is low effort content" button. Why don't the people who do this go to /r/halo? That's better suited for their mentality. :kappa:

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I hope there's like, some facsimile of navmesh creation or pathfinding properties via Forge or else bots are going to get boring very quickly on dev maps only.

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2 hours ago, Ethereal Nights said:

If the problem is inherent, that means it can't be fixed. But you can easily fix this issue.

Power weapons should have a quicker spawn time in Slayer. Power ups will be used faster because players will most likely use them to get the next power weapon. But have power ups on a slower spawn time that way they won't decide every single battle for the power weapons. Of course, I'd say most of us have already thought power weapons should spawn quicker in general, but Slayer matches especially won't come to a standstill if power weapons are spawning in every minute. That also means Slayer matches will finish up faster. Plus, it makes the gametype more exciting to play and watch.

Slayer is not inherently bad. It just needs some tinkering to make it work properly.

I wouldn't necessarily say that fixes the problem, it just makes the gametype more urgent and generally more chaotic, with a lot more situations where players are fighting imbalanced power levels.  Even on the smaller, lower power weapon saturated versions like Middy and Amplified, the nonstop action isn't necessarily showing skillful play, it's showing whether or not a team can mark off two consecutive checkboxes: 1) Can Team X acquire a numbers advantage? 2) Can Team X play with a short-term numbers advantage?....And while that's part of the base team skill necessary for top level competition, it isn't on its own a measuring stick worth using in a Bo5 between two teams.

You could also 'fix' stalemates by making teams lose points for every 10 seconds they go without scoring a kill, and give bonus points for kills with power weapons, but it doesn't solve the innate problem that Slayer, as a gametype, has its core objective of, "Do not die."

It's insane to me that competitive Halo still won't abandon Slayer... while comp Call of Duty will break out brand new gametypes (admittedly, not all of them great) in most cycles while still highlighting their core.

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Sometimes I think you guys view Halo as the virtual Olympics instead of a game. I hope you guys get what you want with settings but I'm aboard the Mario Party of FPS train. But also there's no reason they can't engineer the scripting to facilitate the Halo Olympics and I'll be here shit talking them again with you all if they don't.

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16 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Sometimes I think you guys view Halo as the virtual Olympics instead of a game. I hope you guys get what you want with settings but I'm aboard the Mario Party of FPS train.

There's nothing wrong with embracing Halo's versatility and ability to foster several different environments and fun gametypes...

But if you don't understand why the conversation on TeamBeyond is focused on a directly arena, best-player/team-wins Competitive Setting mood...then I think you're on the wrong forums.

(And to clarify, I don't mean that as a, "You don't belong here" but rather a, "How did you end up here if you're confused by this forum's roots?")

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1 minute ago, TiberiusAudley said:

There's nothing wrong with embracing Halo's versatility and ability to foster several different environments and fun gametypes...

But if you don't understand why the conversation on TeamBeyond is focused on a directly arena, best-player/team-wins Competitive Setting mood...then I think you're on the wrong forums.

(And to clarify, I don't mean that as a, "You don't belong here" but rather a, "How did you end up here if you're confused by this forum's roots?")

I joined before you did. I came from THC like all the originals here did. I know what we're about here.

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5 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

I joined before you did. I came from THC like all the originals here did. I know what we're about here.

Did I just get Forum Join Dated in 2021?

...granted, I would've been Forum Join Dated on the MLG forums because I'm just a 2008 kid who joined after seeing Vegas and becoming a fan of Walshy and Roybox....

But getting Join Dated when we don't even have listed Join Dates anymore...?!

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2sNqwzy.png

I don't know what you see on your end but I see a join date.

I'm not bragging. Just don't try to insinuate that I don't know the nature of this community, or that I'm not welcome because I have some different takes.

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Oh my god shut the fuck up about join dates. You both joined in 2013

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23 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

I don't know what you see on your end but I see a join date.

I'm not bragging. Just don't try to insinuate that I don't know the nature of this community, or that I'm not welcome because I have some different takes.

...You realize there was a whole-ass official MLG forum before The Halo Council, right?

 

And again, I wasn't insinuating that you're not welcome because your take is different... just, the questioning of "Why do you guys treat it like the Olympics" when TB formed in the ashes of THC which formed in the ashes of the official MLG forums is an extremely odd take.

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7 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Bot matches in timesplitters 2 and red faction 2 were my first introduction to deathmatch modes in FPS games.

I'm actually pretty excited about bots in Halo infinite, but only if we have custom game options to completely overhaul the experience - no sprint, no clamber, 3sk pistols with long range, map maker, etc... 

I think the bots have been undersold.  They're a great introduction for new players, good for warmp, good for custom game variants. I would also rather have a dumb bot fill in for my teammates who quit than just have an empty slot. Especially in objective, sometimes just having an extra bullet sponge can take the heat off enough.

6 hours ago, Hemlax said:

Can't see bots using grapple hook and other equipment effectively at all. Hope they are not just useless punching bags.

I could see them able to use any of the equipment with perfect efficacy, they just won't be creative with it.

5 hours ago, Ethereal Nights said:

If the problem is inherent, that means it can't be fixed. But you can easily fix this issue.

Power weapons should have a quicker spawn time in Slayer. Power ups will be used faster because players will most likely use them to get the next power weapon. But have power ups on a slower spawn time that way they won't decide every single battle for the power weapons. Of course, I'd say most of us have already thought power weapons should spawn quicker in general, but Slayer matches especially won't come to a standstill if power weapons are spawning in every minute. That also means Slayer matches will finish up faster. Plus, it makes the gametype more exciting to play and watch.

Slayer is not inherently bad. It just needs some tinkering to make it work properly.

In addition to the faster spawn times, i would also like to see a GoW style spawn system where the main power weapon or power up on the map will flip every spawn cycle. Rockets - Sniper - Rockets - Sniper or OS - Camo - OS - Camo etc.

And can we also try delayed spawns at some point please? Wait a minute until power items pop.

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CoDs inclusion of bots is also a godsend. I get to enjoy the game without the scumbag players poisoning the well every match, play around with any weapon or class I want, and extend the matches for as long as I want. One of the best features CoD has, and has given even mediocre CoD titles a longer lifespan for me.

Except for Ghosts. Fuck Ghosts. The guy who programmed AI to camp corners can deepthroat a cactus.

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1 hour ago, TiberiusAudley said:

...You realize there was a whole-ass official MLG forum before The Halo Council, right?

 

And again, I wasn't insinuating that you're not welcome because your take is different... just, the questioning of "Why do you guys treat it like the Olympics" when TB formed in the ashes of THC which formed in the ashes of the official MLG forums is an extremely odd take.

Your vying for one-upmanship isn't as subtle as you think though it might be unconscious. I've been around, friend. But that aside, the nuance of my remarks was lost.

I made the comparison that I did because video games and the real Olympics are two whole different beasts. One is the world stage for the finest athletes in all of land and they've trained their whole lives for and it's such a revered tradition across centuries that any rule change in these competitions rightly deserves extravagant scrutiny. The other has virtually no barrier to entry, and though in past Halo history I suppose some people were able to make a living off of their ability in it, I could use some of your rhetoric and tell you that acting like you don't understand that Halo is a consumer product produced by a greedy American corporation is also an extremely odd take. Of course the Olympics and corporatism go hand in hand as well but it comes by way of sponsorships from poison manufacturers like Coca-cola as opposed to compromising the games themselves.

And that's kind of the bottom line here and has been our reality since Day -16 when The Fall of Reach was published ahead of CE's release. The needless novel of a backstory to a new franchise and Microsoft strongarmed Halo's creators into accepting it, because they then owned the IP. Not many knew of Halo by that point, and many were very skeptical of due to dual joystick functionality in a shooter still being a very new idea. You could even say it happened the day that Microsoft bought Bungie and Halo.

We won't change that by endlessly bemoaning 343i's design choices that are in some measure dictated by what the suits think will make the most money, sorry to say. It's a bitch, too. I wish my favorite things didn't continue to be gentrified further and further but here we are.

And yet, I still get a good measure of enjoyment out of a product that has become thus. If you can't achieve that, your problem is probably ultimately buried in the heart of Capitalism. One can only hope that the people who devote so much time to being frustrated at current Halo spends even half that much time with good work in the political world that could cut down on corporatism which is what enables this warping of things in the first place.

But I'm not trying to get political...that's the last thing I want. All I wish for is a competitive community that doesn't act like their livelihood is on the line when it comes to questionable game design and errs to the silver-lining side of things. But I think Infinite will have a proper silver-perimeter to it. And if someone just can't enjoy it anymore because of their own tastes, then they'll have to do what they have to do with everything else in this fleeting life. Consign this franchise to the ever fondly bittersweet annals of memory. Move on to greener pastures that cause less heartache instead of supposing that they'll forever remain warm within the ribcage of the carcass of a rotting horse that keeps getting whacked. Instead of deciding to sew themselves shut from the inside, then, and letting the hot air they huff out suffocate them in time. The oxygen availability wanes, and their brain begins to fail and forget that the only thing keeping them inside the putrid remains is themselves. Bewildered now they can't understand why they're now finding maggots and flies, but punching and kicking down at them seems to help this macabre squatter cope with their current reality. All the while, the horse has gone cold. One day they realize the warmth is gone. The holes have begun to show in the long departed equine and it's dark and cold outside now. The sunshine of the past has become night.

Eat your heart out, Greg Kirkpatrick.

I'm just a vulture. But as you once raced your horse against others in fierce competition, I too now contend against my ilk in competition to enjoy feasting upon your horse. Take aim at me if you want, but it's not going to change what and who was responsible for murdering your faithful steed.

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Man I remember halo council. Good times. Fuck i still remember being on waypoint in 2011. 

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