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Halo Infinite Discussion

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6 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Some things in programming are hard.

Designing hitmarkers that can be toggled on or off is not one of them.

ReticuleHitmarkerDraw()
{
        /* Return if hitmarkers are disabled.  Do not draw */
        if (!m_bShowGrenadeHitmarkers)
        {
                return;    
        }

        .....
        .....
        ..... existing code that draws the hit markers
        ......
        ......
}

Here I just programmed it for them in 3 minutes.  
They just need a global flag 'm_bShowGrenadeHitmarkers' and insert this code into the hitmarker draw routine. 
The flag gets set by the configurable user option

You could also just not call the ReticuleHitmarkerDraw function based on the flag.  I'm not sure which would more optimal but it could easily be tested.  I'm sure you would not want to call the function at all so you execution pointer doesn't have to be updated and the heap doesn't have to allocate space for the function variables.

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4 hours ago, heytred said:

Yeah, I feel you for sure. I think 343's mismanagement of Halo has mostly been in treating it as a vehicle for Xbox/Microsoft success (sometimes to the game's detriment... look at Halo 5 campaign) & the thing that has helped calm my own bias is it seems they finally realize that Halo is so big/beloved that its success needs to be measured on its own next to things like Xbox instead of being treated as a feature, experience, or portion of Xbox... if that makes sense? 

Seems like they finally have the greenlight from daddy Microsoft to treat Halo with the reverence and resources it and the fans deserve. I'm optimistic for now but had near zero faith in Infinite prior to E3. 

How is H5 campaign an example of what you are saying here?

 

what are you seeing from 343 that offers you this hope that h6 will be better?

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

What I still do not understand, and I suspect likely will never understand, is what about this game has justified a six-plus year development cycle.

Did 343 commit to a launch date?

 

asking for a friend 

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2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

They clearly had a game before infinite and scrapped it. Plus all that talk about a new engine is bullshit. It's still blam, just like creation 2 is still gamebryo, which is still netimmerse.

I don’t know how much is hype or real but it was fascinating to see the extreme details of the nature preserve.

 

god I hope this is a shooter and not the hunting variety.

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1 hour ago, RatherSilentMr said:

ReticuleHitmarkerDraw()
{
        /* Return if hitmarkers are disabled.  Do not draw */
        if (!m_bShowGrenadeHitmarkers)
        {
                return;    
        }

        .....
        .....
        ..... existing code that draws the hit markers
        ......
        ......
}

Here I just programmed it for them in 3 minutes.  
They just need a global flag 'm_bShowGrenadeHitmarkers' and insert this code into the hitmarker draw routine. 
The flag gets set by the configurable user option

You could also just not call the ReticuleHitmarkerDraw function based on the flag.  I'm not sure which would more optimal but it could easily be tested.  I'm sure you would not want to call the function at all so you execution pointer doesn't have to be updated and the heap doesn't have to allocate space for the function variables.

Can confirm this man is a code genius. 

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2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

They clearly had a game before infinite and scrapped it. Plus all that talk about a new engine is bullshit. It's still blam, just like creation 2 is still gamebryo, which is still netimmerse.

What's the basis for these claims? I don't care about Creation 2 or whatever wacky shit Bethesda is up to. Besides, what even is the Blam! Engine? The framework that Halo has been built off of, of course, but at what point is it no longer that? Does it have to be a completely new framework that was coded without any reference from Blam! Or can it be iterative and it has to refactor at least 51% of Blam!'s codebase? 75%? 90%? I bet by the time Halo 5 came around, 90% of that engine was different from CE.

Maybe it's just hype and to be taken with a grain of salt, if we're to believe hearsay rumors of Infinite started off on UE4, because it would be very unlikely to develop a full game and an engine in three years. But that's what it is -- a rumor.

So that said, this sounds like an unnecessary jab at 343i. Don't get me wrong, they have some well-deserved bruises, but sometimes it seems like you guys let your frustrations get the better of you here. (A common occurrence over the 8 years I've been here, though...)

I don't know a lot of game development, but I think I understand that "new engine" rhetoric from game developers is rooted in how much work was done in refactoring things, as opposed to some monumental task of "We made a game engine from SCRATCH zero lines of code". I highly doubt any studio takes that route, at least in this era. You know, maybe the 00s or so, maybe even early 10s, but by now with how much work everything is? I doubt it.

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So some manner of activities reminiscent of Spartan Ops from Halo 4 is basically confirmed. I predict something akin to the unique seasonal activity that Destiny 2 has every season, where PvE will be involved and you'll be playing as your own Spartan. But more than merely Firefight, since I'm supposing that will be a base game mode. The story and lore will move forward with these events. That'd be really cool and I'd be onboard.

...But what if we just straight up had raids? The gameplay itself unchanged but a plethora of unique mechanics to contend with in the raid itself? I think Halo could put a unique spin on the concept of raids, because raids hitherto have been pretty intrinsic to (MMO)RPGs where you customize your whole build and all that. But the heart of Halo is an arena-flavored shooter with equal starts, yet it's also known for its story and campaign. In fact you're basically a pariah if you don't play campaign first, and that's a farcry from most generic shooters these days, if they even have a campaign at all anymore.

So I think it's only proper to give a college try and blending these things together. Co-op campaign doesn't quite cut it, and Firefight is close but there's never really been unique objectives and mechancs in Firefight and the only lose/win condition is pretty much staying alive/dying.

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12 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I know it's 343 and it's Microsoft and it's a AAA game but to hear a senior developer say this:

Chris Blohm: There’s one note from Ryan in regard to Seasons that I’d like to jump in on. We want players to have cool content, activities, events, and rewards over the course of the season, but we do not want to demand that players play a ton of hours every week of the season to complete everything. We want players having fun in Halo, not grind it like it’s a job.

 

Just to say it is nice to read. I loath grinding. It is not fun for me on any level and to hear that they want the game to be fun and not reliant on fomo-addict grinding is really pleasing to me. Many times my job feels like a grin so to come home and grind a game for "fUn" is just... nah mate.

Edit:

Ryan Paradis: First and foremost, we’re working hard to ensure that the Battle Pass isn’t a ‘grind’ for players. We want it to be a supplemental reward stream for the time you were already putting into the game. I for one can’t stand it when I’m playing a game JUST to complete the Battle Pass – it feels like a chore to me.

I hope the game is good because this is nice.

I'm expecting to get monkey's paw'd hard with that. The battle pass won't be a grind if you pay for it

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yeah i don't think anybody would reasonably expect them to start a brand new engine from nothing.  That's a colossal waste of time and money. advertised versions are totally arbitrary so them calling it "new" and giving it a different name doesn't really mean shit.  Let me tell you a (tall) tale. That i just made up. and took me a long ass time so you better appreciate this shit cuz it probably won't happen again:

1 Week Post Launch

Microsoft is mad that Halo 5 sold like shit compared to its predecessors. The PR people had to spin it to say "It sold $500 Million worth guys! when you include the hardware cost of bundles, which are sold at-cost. No we won't tell you the number of actual units" How embarrassing. But 343 says they have a content update plan.  lets give it some time.

10 weeks post launch.

Forge has yet to be delivered. The first content update came out, bumping the population for about 36 hours.  Warzone whales are the only thing keeping the ship afloat...

Phil Spencer calls a meeting. All the knuckle-draggers are told to take a long lunch. Bonnie, Josh and Quinn are ushered into an upstairs conference room. They don't notice the random dev crouched under the table, cleaning up his favorite workday drug, trying furiously to get it out of the carpet. "damn coffee." he thinks, not noticing whats about to happen.  By the time he does... "SHIT, im trapped... Stay low maybe they won't notice"  

The shades are closed and only one row of fluorescent lights are turned on. Phil stands at the dark end of the room. A shadowy figure in a hoodie walks from the corner to stand next to Phil. He pulls his hood back and lifts his head. It's Satya, shit just got real.  There are gasps around the room. The random dev pees a little but doesn't care. This isn't a meeting, its an interrogation and everybody knows it. Questions are asked:

Why is there almost no content? Why did it sell so poorly? Why isn't there split screen? Why can't I aim right? Why in the hell is Cortana alive!? HOW IS CHIEF NOT EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME???

"MCC and now THIS!!!???" scream Phil and Satya in unison.  They look at each other knowingly but don't want to break the tension. They will buy each other Coke's from the vending machine downstairs later.

Bonnie looks defiant. She points at Josh Holmes and says "He said it was going great!!". He points at Quinn and says the same. A blameless retro this is not.

There is a little whimper from under the table.  Everybody looks and the dev knows he's been made.  He stands up sheepishly apologizing for being here, he was cleaning up his mess and didn't realize what was happening until it already started.  Phil says, "Fuck it. Since you're here, what do you think the problem is?"

Hesitating the dev opens his mouth but can't speak. He tries again and the damn breaks,

"Holy shit guys, Blam! SUX.  The pipeline BLOWS.  Prototyping is AWFUL. Our tooling is SHIT. All the feedback loops take forever AND A DAY.  Our tech debt is a NIGHTMARE. It has almost taken down this entire building on multiple occasions. Halo 5 was TOUGH just go get working. Trying to get efficient enough to run on that hardware? sweet jesus.  Getting ANYTHING to work reliably on PC? gives me nightmares. We need an overhaul BAD. Engine, build process, everything. UE4 is so damn easy compared to this, its almost a joke."

They don't want to take him seriously, he's only been here for a year and still a level 1 but the truth has already begun to sink in. They know they will need a long-ass timeline until the next game if they want to keep the franchise alive, and even then its a long shot. 

Later, when Satya is being repeatedly rejected by the vending machine for trying to feed it a $100 bill, the smallest currency he has, Phil tells Satya to get his checkbook out, "im going into the wilderness to buy every studio i can get my hands on." he says in a low, gravelly voice. "We need a backup plan if this thing implodes. I am batman"

Satya pretends he didn't hear that. "I too, wish I were batman" he thinks.

They write an all-staff email to 343 that afternoon, while drinking their Cokes they bought from the gas station across the street with that $100. That vending machine was a being a whiny bitch. They don't send it until 2 AM though, just to make everybody think they work extra hard. Work is mandated to begin overhauling the engine while the game is also in development. eggs and baskets and all that.

18 months later its ready for its first demo.  "This is halo 5 again WTF guys??" The game is scrapped.  "Resignations" and "Better opportunities" drip feed to decision makers.  Time for a little addition by subtraction. Lets try this again....

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sitri said:

I'm expecting to get monkey's paw'd hard with that. The battle pass won't be a grind if you pay for it

Well at least you get to pick the battle pass you want and play though it in your own pace with no time pressure.

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It is important to set a precedent early for the amount of content people should expect with these seasons. It is clear that Infinite is going to take a lot from Destiny in terms of how they continue to support and implement narrative into the multiplayer and campaign etc. and one of the biggest issues Destiny seems to have is pleasing their Hardcore player base who do want to play Density and grind it like it is their job (for some people it is). 

It does seem like 343 is taking a good approach in this regard though. 

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They should make a battlepass that doesn't give you anything, but for every achievement you get it removes one from someone else. For example, if I assassinate someone who's working on a battlepass that requires 10 assassinations, they should get 1 subtracted from their count.

And yes, you can lose items if you lose achievements from your battlepass.

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stop reacting with fucking toxic and simms emojis im not joking

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18 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

They should make a battlepass that doesn't give you anything, but for every achievement you get it removes one from someone else. For example, if I assassinate someone who's working on a battlepass that requires 10 assassinations, they should get 1 subtracted from their count.

And yes, you can lose items if you lose achievements from your battlepass.

Let's just go all in on this!

What about a game mode, maybe even a whole set of playlists, where we expand the EXP/credit systems from 5, 4, and Reach. But fails are punished in addition to medals and general feats being rewarded, and like how some feats awarded more, some fails can be even more punishing.

Like, a simple kill can be +10 EXP, and a simple death is -10 EXP. Being assassinated is -15. Getting stuck by a Hail Mary? -25. And just get ridiculous. Maybe a Perfection could be an instant level up in the battle pass. Maybe if your team loses a match 49-50, the worst performing player on your team gets set back a whole level. Maybe if a team gets Steaked, they all lose a level.

And the weightings could be adjusted when desired, too. Maybe one week, there's a higher reward for teamwork medals, so far as to make people maybe even fight over the DRIVER seat of a warthog. Maybe the next, there's no points at all for assists but it's still in a team based mode. Maybe an FFA where assists are more EXP than kills.

But the big allure to all of this insanity would be the potential for rocketing through the Battle Pass if you're a good player. A match won with the same KDA in this shit fest of a mode would be worth a lot more than a match won with the same KDA in a traditional mode.

Sorry if I'm stealing your thunder here, Boyo.

This would probably generate the most toxic and cheesy vibe in any FPS ever...and it would probably see high player engagement because of the gambling factor.

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13 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

They should make a battlepass that doesn't give you anything, but for every achievement you get it removes one from someone else. For example, if I assassinate someone who's working on a battlepass that requires 10 assassinations, they should get 1 subtracted from their count.

And yes, you can lose items if you lose achievements from your battlepass.

I think that people should be able to link three video clips to their player card, like a little highlight reel that anyone in their lobby could easily watch.  But if they lose a 1v1 to me, I get to delete one of their favorite clips.  

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7 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Let's just go all in on this!

What about a game mode, maybe even a whole set of playlists, where we expand the EXP/credit systems from 5, 4, and Reach. But fails are punished in addition to medals and general feats being rewarded, and like how some feats awarded more, some fails can be even more punishing.

Like, a simple kill can be +10 EXP, and a simple death is -10 EXP. Being assassinated is -15. Getting stuck by a Hail Mary? -25. And just get ridiculous. Maybe a Perfection could be an instant level up in the battle pass. Maybe if your team loses a match 49-50, the worst performing player on your team gets set back a whole level. Maybe if a team gets Steaked, they all lose a level.

And the weightings could be adjusted when desired, too. Maybe one week, there's a higher reward for teamwork medals, so far as to make people maybe even fight over the DRIVER seat of a warthog. Maybe the next, there's no points at all for assists but it's still in a team based mode. Maybe an FFA where assists are more EXP than kills.

But the big allure to all of this insanity would be the potential for rocketing through the Battle Pass if you're a good player. A match won with the same KDA in this shit fest of a mode would be worth a lot more than a match won with the same KDA in a traditional mode.

Sorry if I'm stealing your thunder here, Boyo.

This would probably generate the most toxic and cheesy vibe in any FPS ever...and it would probably see high player engagement because of the gambling factor.

I like this idea except for the fact that this set of playlists would be an optional thing. I don't think it should be optional. You should not be able to escape the potential of losing achievements for being a bad player. Those with tenacity and grit will improve and begin to benefit from the system. Bad players without a drive to improve will repeatedly lose progress and be made to feel bad, as they should. This should be a mandatory experience.

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11 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

Bad players without a drive to improve will repeatedly lose progress and be made to feel bad, as they should. This should be a mandatory experience.

Yes but with skill based matchmaking being so strict all players will be your skill level. This means that as the algorithm learns you skill and balances over time, you'll be net even with zero progress because the algorithm favours 50/50 win rate and 1.0 K/D.

Think it through next time, dumbass.

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This is all in jest. Mostly. I actually think my idea would have potential if the weighting were balanced decently. (It would exclusively be connection-based matchmaking too in order to up the ante on the gamble even more. Will you get matched against noobs and have the chance at a Perfection/instant level up? Hmmmmmmmmm.)

But in complete seriousness, in some sense I find a lot of games these days to be too insular to the player, even in multiplayer games. It's as though part of the game design today actively accounts for other players and attempts are made to make sure that other people don't affect someone else's enjoyment of the game.

And I mean, that's totally reasonable to an extent. But it goes too far nowadays, to the point of reducing some of the fun that could be had. Like, you'll absolutely be muted and even banned if you went off of someone like it was a summer in 2008 and your sweaty ass is getting infuriated at that fucking camper. But honestly, why? The mute option exists for a reason. (Harassment, of course, would be an offense still.)

It's honestly so prevalent that it's difficult to point to any one big profound example, because this rides off of player engagement research and application on a whole. I guess a good frame of reference would be Halo 3 ranked versus Halo 5 ranked. Halo 3's ranked rewarded the player for winning and punished for losing. That's it. You got nothing for simply participating. In H5, however, you could lose every single match but still level up through the progression system. The entirety of Halo's progression systems since Reach have baaaaaaasically just been glorified participation trophies.

Now I'm not saying I want all the cool unlocks behind getting max ranks in playlists. I just think, in today's multiplayer games, players don't get to effect each other as much as they should.

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Just now, Shekkles said:

Yes but with skill based matchmaking being so strict all players will be your skill level. This means that as the algorithm learns you skill and balances over time, you'll be net even with zero progress because the algorithm favours 50/50 win rate and 1.0 K/D.

Think it through next time, dumbass.

I understand that you wouldn't know what it feels like never having to settle for a 50/50 win rate and a 1.0 K/D. It makes sense why you would be against this system.

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1 minute ago, NavG123 said:

I understand that you wouldn't know what it feels like never having to settle for a 50/50 win rate and a 1.0 K/D. It makes sense why you would be against this system.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I've been playing Halo since 2001, and I've been involved in numerous LANs and online tournaments, and I have over 5000 posts on a Halo forum. I am trained in Halo 3 MLG and I did it all on yellow bar connection. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting the admin of this forum and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's on yellow bar connection. Not only am I extensively trained in Halo 3 MLG, but I have access to the entire MCC collection and I will wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent in any of the games you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

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