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Halo Infinite Discussion

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4 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I know some people in here hate the idea of unified settings but 4v4 should just be the competitive experience and BTB should be the casual experience, with ranked and social modes for each. We could almost leave everything else to the customs browser, though maybe people still want SWAT or snipers.

That's where I'm at right now. I like that BTB is more casual, but I never desire to have vehicles and dual sniper spawns in 4v4. You also can't make the heavies gametype fun with only 8 players and tiny maps, for example. Likewise, I don't want competitive 4v4 settings in BTB.

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1 minute ago, Faeyrin said:

In the sense that if you simply removed the BR from play and changed nothing else, the rest of the sandbox would be used more. And what's better game design? Half of the sandbox falling to the wayside, or...not?

The issue here is that the utility weapon is designed to be competent at all ranges while allowing the power weapons and some situational weapons to be dominant within their respective contexts.

Case in point, removing the BR (and by extension the carbine) means whoever controls snipe wins automatically. There is no other weapon that can reasonably battle the sniper.

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2 minutes ago, xSociety said:

Well, if they competed against the BR and was not difficult to aim it would be OP. 

Is lethality the only way to buff a weapon?  

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3 minutes ago, xSociety said:

Well, if they competed against the BR and was not difficult to aim it would be OP. 

Don't know what @Boyo is asking here. ARs need to become more difficult to use to not be OP. They are the noob weapon of Halo.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Is lethality the only way to buff a weapon?  

No. You could give it more utility like a faster melee, alt fire, or special property that makes it worth using. 

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3 minutes ago, ripharambe said:

Don't know what @Boyo is asking here. ARs need to become more difficult to use to not be OP. They are the noob weapon of Halo.

Is the AR the secondary spawn weapon in your mind here or just another automatic you pick up off the map? 

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7 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Is lethality the only way to buff a weapon?  

How would you feel about a bladed weapon whose melee attack severs one of the limbs of the target player forcing them to either use one-handed weapons (e.g., pistol) or hop on one leg at a reduced speed?

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Just now, NavG123 said:

How would you feel about a bladed weapon whose melee attack severs one of the limbs of the target player forcing them to either use one-handed weapons (e.g., pistol) or hop on one leg at a reduced speed?

 

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3 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

How would you feel about a bladed weapon whose melee attack severs one of the limbs of the target player forcing them to either use one-handed weapons (e.g., pistol) or hop on one leg at a reduced speed?

Requesting IP address check for Boyo and Nav @Mods 

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13 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The issue here is that the utility weapon is designed to be competent at all ranges while allowing the power weapons and some situational weapons to be dominant within their respective contexts.

Case in point, removing the BR (and by extension the carbine) means whoever controls snipe wins automatically. There is no other weapon that can reasonably battle the sniper.

Maybe. I wouldn't want the Carbine removed at any rate, though. Nor do I even want the BR removed too because damn that'd suck; I'm just discussing theories here over end result. If anything, the Carbine should've always been the go-to instead of the BR because it's single shot. I think the dominance of the sniper in a H3 without off-spawn utilities would largely be a matter of map design and what other elements you'd be choosing to keep or eschew. Not gonna lie, I love me some radar so I can crouch ambush a sniper roost.

Granted, I'm sure the many ways I can connive my way to winning a match of unranked/social beyond BR and sniper duels would fall short if teams ever had proper skill matching. I'm no Mint Blitz. (Although I think he is mostly what he is too because of terrible skill matching lol)

The topic's ultimately a non starter though. So here's a lot more cut-and-dry of a question,

 

Why did competitive settings never adopt the Carbine over the BR in H3? Even now, hit detection is still sketchy in MCC H3, never mind how bad it could get during 360 days. A single shot weapon would ameliorate some of the issue.

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4 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

How would you feel about a bladed weapon whose melee attack severs one of the limbs of the target player forcing them to either use one-handed weapons (e.g., pistol) or hop on one leg at a reduced speed?

Can you use the severed limb as a melee weapon?

1 minute ago, Faeyrin said:

Why did competitive settings never adopt the Carbine over the BR in H3?

A rapid firing semi auto is punished less for missed shots than a slower firing burst weapon.

Real reason: the utility has to be a human weapon 

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3 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Maybe. I wouldn't want the Carbine removed at any rate, though. Nor do I even want the BR removed too because damn that'd suck; I'm just discussing theories here over end result. If anything, the Carbine should've always been the go-to instead of the BR because it's single shot. I think the dominance of the sniper in a H3 without off-spawn utilities would largely be a matter of map design and what other elements you'd be choosing to keep or eschew. Not gonna lie, I love me some radar so I can crouch ambush a sniper roost.

Granted, I'm sure the many ways I can connive my way to winning a match of unranked/social beyond BR and sniper duels would fall short if teams ever had proper skill matching. I'm no Mint Blitz. (Although I think he is mostly what he is too because of terrible skill matching lol)

The topic's ultimately a non starter though. So here's a lot more cut-and-dry of a question,

 

Why did competitive settings never adopt the Carbine over the BR in H3? Even now, hit detection is still sketchy in MCC H3, never mind how bad it could get during 360 days. A single shot weapon would ameliorate some of the issue.

While it was single shot, the fast fire rate made it a little too forgiving IMO. The H3 Beta carbine was pretty :fire: though. 

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4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Can you use the severed limb as a melee weapon?

How would you feel if severing a limb caused the target to bleed? This would still allow their shields to recharge, however their health would continue to drain until it reaches a minimum value. In that scenario, any breaking of the shields would result in death.

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Just now, NavG123 said:

How would you feel if severing a limb caused the target to bleed? This would still allow their shields to recharge, however their health would continue to drain until it reaches a minimum value. In that scenario, any breaking of the shields would result in death.

If the target’s shields could recharge but his health would still slowly drain, it would encourage him to YOLO what remains of his life, his unprecedented aggression netting him kills by nature of his nothing to lose attitude.  

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14 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Maybe. I wouldn't want the Carbine removed at any rate, though. Nor do I even want the BR removed too because damn that'd suck; I'm just discussing theories here over end result. If anything, the Carbine should've always been the go-to instead of the BR because it's single shot. I think the dominance of the sniper in a H3 without off-spawn utilities would largely be a matter of map design and what other elements you'd be choosing to keep or eschew. Not gonna lie, I love me some radar so I can crouch ambush a sniper roost.

Granted, I'm sure the many ways I can connive my way to winning a match of unranked/social beyond BR and sniper duels would fall short if teams ever had proper skill matching.

The topic's ultimately a non starter though. So here's a lot more cut-and-dry of a question,

 

Why did competitive settings never adopt the Carbine over the BR in H3? Even now, hit detection is still sketchy in MCC H3, never mind how bad it could get during 360 days. A single shot weapon would ameliorate some of the issue.

The other problem is weapon redundancy, there's no reason to feature all 86 weapons in a single map when most of them do roughly the same thing. What we could acquiesce to is using different redundant weapons on different maps, thus ensuring each weapon gets some screen time while not overlapping with the use of other weapons. A consistent and competent starting weapon is pretty much non-negotiable though, that is Halo's formula down to the very foundation.

EDIT: Also, the carbine would've been fine in Halo 3. People didn't want it because of its weird aesthetic, both aural and visual.

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23 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

weapon redundancy

The Carbine is one of my favorite weapons but it has no place in a quick killing sandbox.  The Magnum is the semi auto precision weapon, we don’t need another one.  This leaves no room for the DMR either.  

There are precious few STKs that make sense for semi auto weapons in Halo.  3, 4, 5, and 6 shots to kill are the only viable options IMO.  5/6 stk are each meant as a single firemode on an alt-fire capable weapon so it’s ok if they’re not too quick-killing on their own.  3/4 stk are the “real” precision weapons.  

The Boltshot’s primary fire (not the charged shot) is a 3sk, firing the same exact projectiles as a scoped Light Rifle.  

The Magnum is a 4sk.  The BR is the burst 4sk.  
 

The Sand Blaster fires 5sk glass beads with RT.  

The Needler fires 6sk projectiles while scoped.  
 

The Plasma Pistol kills in 7 shots but doesn’t require a headshot.  The PP bookends this portion of the sandbox.  

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1 hour ago, Faeyrin said:

To go full devil's advocate here, I can agree with Ascend Hyperion (the video maker) that H3 would be better without the BR.

In the sense that if you simply removed the BR from play and changed nothing else, the rest of the sandbox would be used more. And what's better game design? Half of the sandbox falling to the wayside, or...not?

You can argue to simply "fix" the other weapons to be more viable against the BR -- but then you don't really have "Halo 3" anymore, do you? The "real" Halo 3 has natural situations in its base settings where the BR is not in the play, but it does not have situations where the AR has a tighter spread and with less magnetism. That would effectively be a modified Halo 3.

Maybe that's arguing semantics by this point, but one of my hobbies is writing. So! :flip:

Better game design is not screwing over better players for the sake of "variety".  Not all aspects are created equal, you don't compromise skill just so people can use different guns.  We've seen that in Gears 5, Halo 5, Doom, Quake, etc. doesn't work. Most important thing is to uphold integrity, then focus on adding more ways to be skillful.  Not just removing the almost only fun aspect of Halo 3 being the BR and then saying you improve the game.

 

How long do you think Halo 3 would've lived if the BR didn't exist. Like what lol I don't care how many stupid dual wieldable guns I can pick up, let me do something hard.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

How would you go about designing automatics that can compete with the BR without them becoming OP or too difficult to aim?

It either needs to be weak but easy or stronger but hard.  "Too difficult to aim" isn't really a great question to ask because that's almost entirely subjective. If an AR does enough damage that you have to make it "Too difficult to aim" to balance it, then it just needs to do less damage.

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Is lethality the only way to buff a weapon?  

No. Ease of use or special characteristics that make it shine in specific circumstances.

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Is the AR the secondary spawn weapon in your mind here or just another automatic you pick up off the map? 

For me, i have no problem with the AR being the secondary spawn weapon in everything except for HCS. As long as perfect shots from it can't kill faster than perfect shots from the BR/Sidekick/whatever the precision spawn weapon is.  It shouldn't just win because you're in close range. That's boring rock/paper/scissors shit.

1 hour ago, NavG123 said:

How would you feel about a bladed weapon whose melee attack severs one of the limbs of the target player forcing them to either use one-handed weapons (e.g., pistol) or hop on one leg at a reduced speed?

I think this would actually be hilarious.  In a custom game. for about an hour.

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4 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

I think this would actually be hilarious.

 

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If the Mauler could alt-fire a rapidly dropping explosive a short distance, it would have some utility outside of point blank range.  

If the Plasma Pistol could alt-fire, both attacks wouldn’t need to be mapped to the same button.  

If the Spiker could alt-fire a grappling hook a short distance, it could gain a positional advantage prior to engaging in order to offset the weapon’s less than stellar primary-fire performance.  

If the Plasma Repeater could exhaust weapon heat as a close range attack, it would encourage players to close the gap on their target while firing, ensuring the conflict comes to a resolution.  

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IIRC it was not possible to spawn with carbines in OG H3, no custom game option for it. 

I also vaguely remember Killa KC saying he'd prefer carbine starts during a Q&A, right around V2 settings. MLG used to publish a fair amount of blogs when making & testing the settings.   

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Whichever one plays better is probably what they used to make their final decision.

Carbine is more of a spamming type of weapon. If the weapon does the work its not competitive.

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