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Halo Infinite Discussion

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3 minutes ago, Rdispushedback said:

The problem right now is this type of community is suppose to be the influencers and together on general perspective as well as ideas but what we have is everyone has a different opinion and views and views different especially from those.

Competitive settings need to be left to a third party.

If the vision of any one particular person on this forum was put into effect, I'm pretty sure most people here would be okay with it.

The problem is we have no influence because we're treated like lepers.

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1 minute ago, Faeyrin said:

I'm not saying I agree with him fully. I just think it's an interesting take, and the "meta" of H3 is something that I would like to see avoided in Infinite. Aiming woes aside, H4 and H5 balanced the sandbox a lot better than H3 did.

Causes aside, the consequence of half the sandbox being abandoned is just that; half of everything is basically broken by way of being worthless. Whatever kind of shooter that Halo really is, that's something we should avoid.

Ideally, Infinite has such a balanced sandbox that I wouldn't mind spawning with an AR. After all, there's apparently still some zoom/smart link factor in addition to headshot multiplier damage.

You need a utility weapon in Halo to be able to compete off spawn and that's what he doesn't get. The reason we don't use most of the sandbox is because most of the sandbox is either redundant or under/overpowered.

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14 minutes ago, xSociety said:

"Wah, the BR makes other guns not used as much."

Utility weapons should be used more than any other gun, that's kind of the point of having one (not that the H3 BR was a well designed utility weapon).

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1 minute ago, Aphex Twin said:

Utility weapons should be used more than any other gun, that's kind of the point of having one. 

Exactly. 

This dude never played SMG starts on Warlock and it shows. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

I definitely don't want AR starts to be in any serious playlist. At least, definitely not in the way we've almost always known automatic weapons to be. Though that said, has anyone watched this video yet?

 

 

 

Misgivings of the AR in H3 being shit put aside, I think he has a fair perspective.

BR starts are not the reason other weapons arent used, it's the other weapons being weak.

Auto starts is a band aid fix to force weapon variety in a game that doesnt do that naturally, at a huge cost to overall gameplay. Spawning without a BR isnt much fun against someone slightly proficient at the game. 

Halo is better without the BR if all you value is weapon "variety". Halo could be better with the BR and a viable sandbox.

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If it were up to me, I'd take a page from Bungie's book when they began Destiny. Year 1 of Destiny 1 PvP had a very particular balancing that I loved. It felt a lot more like "Halo the RPG" than it does now. Current Destiny PvP is a horribly unfun cheese fest.

Basically, every single primary weapon type was a viable utility weapon. Magnums, assault rifles, battle rifles, and DMRs. They're not actually called that, but their functions were the same. One particular handcannon that I was partial to was very, very similar to the H1 Magnum. Very accurate, long ranged, 3SK to the head. The assault rifles were all at least as effective as the H5 assault rifle. Battle rifles were pretty close to H4 Turbo BR in efficiency, if not a double-shotting H2 BR. DMRs were pretty much vanilla H4 tier.

Virtually any Legendary tier of these four weapon types were viable against each other, and moreover, at most ranges too. There was a proper majority overlap in the effective ranges of all primary types. There was still a meta in the end, but I suspect any game with a player choice is going to have some semblance of a meta.

But the end result was essentially that all four types were superficial in appearance and it largely came down to individual preference. A lot of it was "redundant" in some sense on gameplay level, but every weapon type had such a personality to it thanks to S+ tier animations and design and sound effects, that everybody gravitated to the different types based on the "gamefeel" instead.

(Too bad that current Destiny PvP is hot garbage.)

So I guess this means that I'm saying I'd like for "loadouts" to be in my flavor of Halo. Not quite. But I think the design as detailed above could synergize well with any shooter, especially one with map pickups. I think if all starting weapons could be balanced as described, and then the choice given to players, that would go towards appeasing both "casuals" and "competitives" when it comes to a manner of universal settings.

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1 hour ago, xSociety said:

BTB Clan matches in Halo 2 were some of the most fun I've had with Halo online. I'd love to see that return.

And no @NavG123 they haven't given us any specifics in playlists, browsers, etc. People are looking at MCC to see what they might be possibly doing. 

And they should. What’s the point of Spartan companies? It be cool AF to have company wars 

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2 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

And they should. What’s the point of Spartan companies? It be cool AF to have company wars 

To grind Warzone for 5k hours together to unlock an armor set, duh. 

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34 minutes ago, potetr said:

Halo is better without the BR if all you value is weapon "variety". Halo could be better with the BR and a viable sandbox.

How do you make automatic weapons viable without simply decreasing their killtimes?  

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Just now, Boyo said:

How do you make automatic weapons viable without simply decreasing their killtimes?  

Well, you'd have to up their lethality while making them harder to use. So more accurate and less forgiving. 

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That video is similar to something I've suggested before. Most Halo players want to hold forward while shooting as many different types of guns as possible. This isn't meant as an attack since it's basically the way I played Diabotical, I'd go into some sort of "for fun" playlist and just jump around while switching up weapons to whatever I felt like shooting.

This is why I think fiesta is so popular. You are guaranteed to shoot a ton of different weapons throughout the match, there's times you'll feel powerful and hold forward, and also times where you'll feel weak and want to hide around a corner. Or if you're impatient like I am, jump out and challenge anyway and get blasted away hoping for better luck next time. And yeah, spawning with a precision weapon that's better than 90% of the sandbox kind of ruins your chance to play with a ton of different weapons.

This doesn't necessarily mean it's great for competitive play even if by some definitions the game is better without BR starts. Playing Starwhal with friends several years ago, we preferred the "last man standing" gametype to make your last life more intense. But one guy refused to move until only one opponent was left, which was the best way to win but the rest of us were playing "with honor" to make the experience more "enjoyable" by our definition. We eventually switched to "most kills wins" which nobody liked as much, but was the only way to make sure everyone moved.

This is all a long winded way of saying I think Halo suffers a similar dilemma. Tournaments will have people trying to win no matter what, so you can't account for teams playing "with honor" to make sure the game stays fun, and I wouldn't want people in tournaments to stoop to that anyway, so we have to make sure the game plays well when everybody is trying to win. However, the game will become more boring as a result to the majority of Halo fans because their favorite part, holding forward and shooting twenty different guns, will be removed. I don't know how you pull those people in or if you accept them as lost causes.

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1 hour ago, Faeyrin said:

I definitely don't want AR starts to be in any serious playlist. At least, definitely not in the way we've almost always known automatic weapons to be. Though that said, has anyone watched this video yet?

 

 

 

Misgivings of the AR in H3 being shit put aside, I think he has a fair perspective.

I only watched ~2/3 of this video because I don't really care about its message, but he's not even making use of Halo 3's so-called "variety". He picked up dual SMGs and plasma rifles once each, but didn't even fire them either time. Otherwise he's just hitting Y off spawn or picking up guns you would already use in BR starts.

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The way you make other guns in the sandbox used more is by giving them utility. Look at CE, the pistol was obviously the best overall weapon in the game but you still saw the Plasma Rifle due to the stun, the shotgun due to the up close 1sk potential, and the AR for the melee range and quick camo. In other Halo games you see the plasma pistol a lot because of the noob combo utility. Picking up the spiker in Halo 3 offers you nothing other than a shitty weapon for example. 

It seems to me that Infinite will have a good use for other guns outside of the BR spawn weapon but to what extent we'll have to wait and see. 

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People also may not be using other guns because in h3 the respawn timers are long as fuck.

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AR starts doesn't force weapon variety at all... what a doofus.  It forces you to go look for the best all-around gun immediately off spawn instead of just getting right into playing, which historically has been the BR.  When you start with ARs you turn the game into "whichever team controls the BRs wins".  When you start with a BR the game is "Whichever team controls the map, power weapons and power ups wins". AR starts is FAR more shallow.

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I have to agree with CL here, even though it wasn't exactly what he described but I loved H3 had a wide variety of options when it came to the end of the games life span, Ranging from 4V4 Ranked TS to things I wouldn't dare touch like Rumble Pit but options are good.

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1 minute ago, StepItUpALevel said:

I have to agree with CL here, even though it wasn't exactly what he described but I loved H3 had a wide variety of options when it came to the end of the games life span, Ranging from 4V4 Ranked TS to things I wouldn't dare touch like Rumble Pit but options are good.

But how do you feel about lead?  

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

You need a utility weapon in Halo to be able to compete off spawn and that's what he doesn't get. The reason we don't use most of the sandbox is because most of the sandbox is either redundant or under/overpowered.

And I think what Faeyrn is saying here is that it's a waste of time if half the sandbox is never used and I agree. The biggest problem with Halo as a series is that more than half the sandbox is in this cancerous area where they're situational, unskilled weapons that should never be powerful because then they'd be OP due to their ease of use. It's okay to have a couple weapons like that but when half your sandbox is like that... One should consider redesigning weapons such as the AR to take actual skill. Then you could actually make them competitive with the BR.

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3 minutes ago, ripharambe said:

And I think what Faeyrn is saying here is that it's a waste of time if half the sandbox is never used and I agree. The biggest problem with Halo as a series is that more than half the sandbox is in this cancerous area where they're situational, unskilled weapons that should never be powerful because then they'd be OP due to their ease of use. It's okay to have a couple weapons like that but when half your sandbox is like that... One should consider redesigning weapons such as the AR to take actual skill. Then you could actually make them competitive with the BR.

How would you go about designing automatics that can compete with the BR without them becoming OP or too difficult to aim?

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To go full devil's advocate here, I can agree with Ascend Hyperion (the video maker) that H3 would be better without the BR.

In the sense that if you simply removed the BR from play and changed nothing else, the rest of the sandbox would be used more. And what's better game design? Half of the sandbox falling to the wayside, or...not?

You can argue to simply "fix" the other weapons to be more viable against the BR -- but then you don't really have "Halo 3" anymore, do you? The "real" Halo 3 has natural situations in its base settings where the BR is not in the play, but it does not have situations where the AR has a tighter spread and with less magnetism. That would effectively be a modified Halo 3.

Maybe that's arguing semantics by this point, but one of my hobbies is writing. So! :flip:

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

How would you go about designing automatics that can compete with the BR without them becoming OP or too difficult to aim?

Well, if they competed against the BR and was not difficult to aim it would be OP. 

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