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Halo Infinite Discussion

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4 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

I still don't see how the commando won't be hated. It's got a 3x zoom like the dmr but fires twice as fast. If it kills in 5 or 6 shots it's literally just a super dmr, a gun which people didn't like.

To be fair people do not hate the DMR they hate it being a spawn weapon. Because tbh it’s not balanced for being a spawning gun 

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If there's enough of them on the map it may as well be a spawn weapon. Unless it's a contested weapon it's gonna be used often and will likely be a pain in the ass if what we're hearing about the shooting mechanics and killtimes are true. 

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7 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

If there's enough of them on the map it may as well be a spawn weapon. Unless it's a contested weapon it's gonna be used often and will likely be a pain in the ass if what we're hearing about the shooting mechanics and killtimes are true. 

You’ll find in halo people do not care

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2 hours ago, NavG123 said:

If OS doesn't provide the invulnerability period and charges shields slow enough such that someone can't use it to turn around a 1v1, I'm hopeful it won't be that bad. An idea would have been for OS to degrade (in terms of total shields granted, and recharge rate) while picked up yet unused. It would discourage stowing it for a long time. You might even consider giving a brief invulnerability period to an OS that was picked up and applied immediately, to encourage quick usage and aggression.

Still, now we're just thinking of needlessly complex mechanics to mitigate some unnecessary and nonsensical change. Par for the course.

I like that idea better. If your going to change a system for the sake of changing it thats not a good reason. In this scenario 99 percent of the time its better to introduce a new feature or system that layers into the old one so those that like the "classic" system still have that while also adding a new twist that can be judged independent of the way things have always been.

A system I could see workingis keeping the traditional OS and camo(ie the pillars of Halo powerup control) orbs like always. Why? Because they are powerful items meant to push the game forward and allow predictable counterplay to occur during periods of the match. Yes, making them pickups can and will throw off this otherwise preditable dynamic.

Then introduce a new set of pickup spawning powerups like damage boost and lets say speed boost that spawn at different intervals and are the new "pickup" powerups introducing a new dynamic while keeping the core powerup tenants in place. These less powerful powerups cant be used mid-battle like pocket OS can to potentially cause some less than ideal strategies of turtling with OS or fighting a player he runs away 1 shot he pops camo and next thing u know hes backsmacking u and your frustrated.

Of course that would require 343 to design maps like CE with constant spawning powerups and weapons that force frequent meaningful decisions on teams and they have not shown capable of that level of Halo map design mastery.

Nor do they adhere to the idea of layering versus wholesale change for the sake of change. One way pisses alot of fans off while hoping to capture new ones(most of 343s changes to Halo), the other builds on previous success while introducting new depth to gameplay that gives old and new players something fresh to play with.

 

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1. You didn’t answer if there was Thruster equipment.  

My apologies, I didn't see it. But he said no.(THANK GOD)

2. Appreciate the info. Lots of little goodies in that list of answers there.

You are welcomed.

3. I'm curious though; does your friend know about what was leaked here in Beyond at all?

No, he does not. And neither do I.

4. Ask him if frag grenades had to come top a rest to explode.

No, they blew up after a set amount of time after the initial contact with another object(or player). So just like Halo 3. In fact he told me that the game feels like a mix between Halo 3 and 5.

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Yeah I noticed equipment this time has taken on a more Armor Ability like approach. Theoretically you could use a shield another player put down but it's also only one way. The wall hack thing only benefits the team that possess it and grapple and repulse are personal gadgets. 

In h3 the equipment was team focused while power ups were personal boosts. We'll have to wait and see how these changes to these ideas play out but I'm not too thrilled with power ups being the way they are. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 5:46 PM, Boyo said:

What happens when three airborne players in a triangle all grapple the player to their right?  Perpetual motion generator?  

The forces would cancel out, rest would be dependent on the momentum of the players.

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5 hours ago, The Tyco said:

Maybe. Never underestimate a players ability to play selfishly, especially once we go Free to Play.

I have zero expectations of the game being team oriented. Just like how Battlefield 2042 is turning away from it as well.

 

The algorithm gods show that people play games for unlocks, addiction and fomo rather than fun now. 

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On 6/14/2021 at 9:52 PM, Snipe Three said:

I'm also a bit worried about how exactly the timers work with power ups that you can wander around with before activation. 

Just as a thought experiment do you just pick up the OS at 2:00 and play super passive then pop it at 2:25 to get the 2:30 rockets? Can you hold it for so long that another OS spawns? etc I feel like this could bring power ups into being part of the problem on stagnant maps rather than allowing them to function as a "fix" for it

Removing the limited time effect from when you pick up the power up really removes the pressing onus to make a play with it before its gone and the possibilities start to branch out in ways that aren't very healthy more than likely most of those new branches are things that help snowball or cause unexpected/unfortunate situations for players on the other team. It definitely moves the skill floor down to where someone could really fuck up the usage of an OS/Camo by handing it over to the other team but its an insanely huge buff to people who are unlikely to do that often. So it probably feels like a good skill based change at the low end but at the high end nothing good will come of this

It just adds another layer to the game. You might have to start trading lives/respawn times/points just to push the other team into using the OS that already confers an advantage to the player that can use it. Much like how on a lot of the maps its often not in your teams best interest to slow the game down too much when the other team has rockets and you want him to get it over with and kill people or at least shoot the rockets before the camo spawns so that you don't get rocketed trying to fight for camo or end up with a dude running camo rockets later on for an even bigger swing and I really don't think we need more of that 

I see the stupid ryanoob stuff coming from miles away already

This was my first reaction to the power up changes and I think it still summarizes the main issues I see with it. I'd add that I think being able to move up the map to cover that's a bit closer to where you want to be then popping OS is something that I think will end up being powerful. Instead of getting drained a bit by time and people trying to put a shot or two on you you'll arrive stacked on your OS in ways that you can't in previous Halos

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

I have zero expectations of the game being team oriented. Just like how Battlefield 2042 is turning away from it as well.

 

The algorithm gods show that people play games for unlocks, addiction and fomo rather than fun now. 

Really glad Battlefield is ditching the "press this button to teamplay" gadgets.

The repair tool and medkits were somehow overpowered (/base healing being laughably slow), boring and ridden with input tax, while the ammo box was just incredibly boring, but necessary. 

New gadget system looks just as unbalanced as before, but maybe more fun.

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21 minutes ago, potetr said:

Really glad Battlefield is ditching the "press this button to teamplay" gadgets.

The repair tool and medkits were somehow overpowered (/base healing being laughably slow), boring and ridden with input tax, while the ammo box was just incredibly boring, but necessary. 

New gadget system looks just as unbalanced as before, but maybe more fun.

Wait are repair tools and ammo and med boxes completely gone? I'm on the same boat as you, the "press A for infinite ammo" has always been boring and obnoxious. But are they actually gone in BF2042? From what I heard they're ditching the class restrictions for something more like CoD where any gun and gadget is available for everyone, and then adding some champion/hero mechanics on top with the specialists.

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23 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I have zero expectations of the game being team oriented. Just like how Battlefield 2042 is turning away from it as well.

 

The algorithm gods show that people play games for unlocks, addiction and fomo rather than fun now. 

I'd argue that fomo, unlocks and addiction are psychological weapons deployed by developers when their game is ultimately lackluster. You can still have good games under these shitty practices, it doesn't explicitly mean the game will be bad. I'd say the game would be better off, but that's a different conversation.

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I'm not completely opposed to power ups in inventory. So long as the activation takes long enough that being able to use it mid-fight without dying first means you broke someone's ankles. 

I don't really buy the idea that people are going to be surprised by OS in someone's back pocket. It appears that the equipment stands out more than second weapon slots do. You'll adjust how you approach people when you see they have an  OS, just like you do when you see they have rockets or shotgun. 

I also think the vast majority of OS will be contested and used almost immediately after they spawn.

I am concerned about how they'll handle spawn timers.i think the best scenario would be that if equipment isn't deployed by the time the next one spawns, it's lost.  Maybe their should be some decay while they are in inventory.

I also think they shouldn't get rid of the old power ups.  I see no reason why OS equipment, and the standard OS that activates instantly can't both be in the game and the decision to place either on the map made with consideration of the needs of the map and the audience

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Basu said:

Wait are repair tools and ammo and med boxes completely gone? I'm on the same boat as you, the "press A for infinite ammo" has always been boring and obnoxious. But are they actually gone in BF2042? From what I heard they're ditching the class restrictions for something more like CoD where any gun and gadget is available for everyone, and then adding some champion/hero mechanics on top with the specialists.

It seems likely, based on the new loadout system and marketing so far. Can't rule out they will be in in a changed or combined form, but I'm sure they aren't front and center anymore. We'd know by now.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

Wait are repair tools and ammo and med boxes completely gone? I'm on the same boat as you, the "press A for infinite ammo" has always been boring and obnoxious. But are they actually gone in BF2042? From what I heard they're ditching the class restrictions for something more like CoD where any gun and gadget is available for everyone, and then adding some champion/hero mechanics on top with the specialists.

As far as I understand it there are still classes in the traditional sense, but now there are specialists within those classes that have certain traits that are specific to just themselves. So like one of the specialists in the medic class has a revive dart similar to Doc in Rainbow that can res people from a distance. There are a lot of specialists we don't know about yet, so I think there might be ones that have the ammo box and medic bag as traits.

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On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

See, this is one of the problems I have with the old system, at least where camo is concerned. The whole point of camo is to deprive the enemy of information, that's literally its function, being able to simply see that camo is no longer there and conclude that a player on the other team is now camo'd for X amount of time kinda defeats the whole point of the powerup, no?

Also as a sort of side note, I imagine you will be able to use the sensor dart to spot camo'd players, so things like that need to be taken into account before we decide that the mechanic is completely broken/uncounterable.

Disagree on the first, we have to separate the strategic level and tactical level. Strategic is the highest level of decision-making, IE "Did they split spawns?" or "Are they gonna start spawning behind us?", etc. Tactical is the lowest level of decision-making, and is more "He has a sword, don't rush him" and "Kill the guy with rox on our plat". 

Power items typically are power items because they have a tactical advantage, and that's fine. However, stacking a sharp strategic disadvantage of not knowing on top of a tactical one is bad territory. Not necessarily always broken, but inherently asymmetric and sort of "unfair" in terms of information. Besides, OS and Camo have never been this one-sided. Even in games with dynamic powerup timers, knowing that it's picked up generally clues you into the fact that someone has it active and could very well push you at any time. 

The sensor dart being able to spot camo'd players is fine but we both know that we'd rather just have it and every trace of it's existence deleted from the game. That thing causes too much bullshit to justify it's own existence. 

On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

You may be right, but then again I'm also not so convinced that holding onto the powerup is this "super-powerplay" that some people seem to think it will be. For starters, there's indicators that show when a player is holding a power up, so unless your plan is to hide in a corner at the back of the map leaving the rest of your team to 3v4 the other team, you're probably going to get hard focuses upon being spotted with an unused powerup. Secondly, powerups aren't the only thing on the map, there's powerweapons and equipment which all need to be contested, so unless your plan is to never go for those too and let the other team have them for free, you will be once again focused upon being spotted with an unused powerup. Thirdly, and maybe most importantly, you drop it upon death. Failing to use it before you die almost certainly means a free powerup for the other team, so I'm not exactly sure how holding onto a powerup is a no brainer, OP play.

I mean, your team still has the other 3 players on the enemy team to focus on. Focusing damage on the powerup holder is important but it isn't gonna happen as often as it should, because the powerup holder's aware of the fact that he's a liability while he hasn't activated his powerup. What I predict we'll see is powerup holders predominantly using their items by being sneaky and trying to force a lopsided 1v1/1v2, which was basically the concern from the beginning. Not to mention that we're basically still using a 6SK utility in the best possible case. 

The third point is basically the only significant factor as to why a powerup holder wouldn't wait much, but it still seems like powerups take too short of a time to activate for this to be too discouraging. All you need to do is hide behind a wall for less than 2 seconds, and you're good. 

Your second point does bring up some thought, that the new equipment system makes OS/Camo into more of a power weapon than a powerup. I'll be honest, there's nothing I can defend about power weapons that doesn't also defend the new powerups. 

On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

Oh, but they CAN be compared. One is noticably worse than the other, that doesn't mean there's no comparison to be had. Also I was directly referencing Infinite's power item nading, so maybe don't leave that one out of the discussion.

They can't really be compared because weapon nading in H5 is gimped significantly more than CE, primarily because H5 doesn't have static skyboxes. It's also not like in CE where you can literally obtain powerups/items from the other side of the map. 

On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

Seems like a bit of a strawman to me. I'm not sure what you were really going for with this one.

Hyperbolic but we can't justify the existence of just any powerup existing because both teams must fight over it. 

On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

You couldn't have anticipated the use of a piece of equipment being used that spawns on the map and has to be contested? I don't know man, Overwatch and Apex players seem to do just fine anticipating and countering character abilities/ultimates without having absolute confrimation that the other team has them. 

I don't play either so can't say much, but isn't counterplay a major design principle in both? I don't know how applicable either of their comparisons are to Halo, because players don't have any inherent differences from one another in Halo - and don't have the tactical advantages over one another like in OW/Apex that allow them to overcome an opponent with a powerup. 

On 6/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mow said:

There are positives to some of these new mechanics, some of which I pointed out, and negatives, some of which you pointed out. I'd much rather have this kind of discussion about mechanics instead of the reactionary "This is bad because it's different than (insert title here)" and the 1 millionth post about how sprint is terrible and CE is God's gift to mankind etc.

Yeah the circlejerk is kind of annoying, and it does feel like a lot of people were literally thinking that they'd show off a projectile 3SK utility and no melee lunge.

Matter of fact is, it's a 343 Halo game in the year 2021. If you felt that the game was gonna be anything like CE or even Halo 3 then you were on crack. 

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12 minutes ago, Rdispushedback said:

What are the chances any of the maps shown are good

Which map is your favorite?

I can't believe you are actually asking for opinions of other people.

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I hope there's a scope on the Sidekick, though there probably won't be. The BR kills too slowly and has too much vertical recoil to use reliably, even at range. Combined with the precision you need for a headshot, this is gonna be a really forgiving Halo game for escaping ranged fights. 

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I think the Commando might be a projectile weapon. Check out this clip, going frame-by-frame.

The hitmarkers are all delayed by a couple of frames after the ammo counter goes down.

False alarm, it seems like every hitmarker is delayed by 4 frames. Which either means that every weapon is a projectile, or 343 made a dumb decision. I'm leaning more toward the latter.

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12 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Matter of fact is, it's a 343 Halo game in the year 2021. If you felt that the game was gonna be anything like CE or even Halo 3 then you were on crack. 

You bring up a lot of fair points, and I am by no means trying to argue that there's no downsides to this new system. It may also be the case that the new system works better for one powerup than it does for the another, for example maybe camo is more balanced than OS? Either way I'm glad this kind of discussion is taking place, it's a lot more productive. Obviously the flights are going to be when we really see how this system plays out and I think it's vital that this forum is able to justify their position with sound logic and without resorting to weak arguments like "CE did it better", you have to be able to explain WHY it did it better, and what could be done to make the current system better without just saying "remove it, it's trash". If the past serves as any idicator we're never going to influence any sort of positive changes if we resort to that line of argumentation, our best bet is if we can come together as a community (which might not be as unlikely as you think if we stay on track) and justify our positions properly.

Make no mistake, if there's issues with the new system I'll be the first to point them out, but the same goes for if people start using faulty logic. The main reason I even took to defending the new system was to play a sort of devil's advocate and show that valid arguments can be made in favor of it, and that valid arguments can be made against the old system too, and that it's not as simple as saying "This will be abused in this way, trust me!" or "this is inferior to X way of doing things".

As I said before, ultimately the flights will be when we really see how this whole thing is going to play out, so in the mean time if you're interested in influencing any sort of positive change to the game, even if it's just 1% of the game, I think being able to consider view points outside of what we're normally used to here would be a huge benefit. And if you're not interested in the game or changing it for the better my question to you would be, why are you even here? (Not directed at you in particular)

 

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1 hour ago, Rdispushedback said:

Is there a point to this post

Asking the same question everythime you post something.

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