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Halo Infinite Discussion

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22 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I'd say my biggest concern is really the last paragraph. I don't see how they make it useful without making the chatter constant. Like for example how does it decide to call out when it sees someone on training but not call out that they're in pit 2 seconds later? Is it just randomly going to give information sometimes but not other times? Will it just never stop talking? Is it based on damage so if I nade someone out of sight does my guy call it out? I don't think those options are really what you want. Really if I were 343 and I felt like I really needed to get this feature working I would probably give in and bind some direction on the dpad to where you can just ping a location on the map by looking at it and pressing the button and you either create a waypoint or your character calls out that location

could be a LOS thing. if the crosshair passes over the enemy, the spartan will chat it out. If he doesn't put the crosshair over the enemy, the game safely assumes the player (spartan) may not see it and therefore pass on calling it out. To prevent spamming of the chatter.

 

At least, that's what I would think would make sense. It's probably not the case. Could be a timing thing in conjuction with screenspace. if a spartan is visible on your screenspace past a certain threshold, the spartan will call it out.. Again screenspace and timing to prevent spam.

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9 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Make Spartan chatter Shadowrun style. Up on Dpad to call out (and ping an area, with a different color if you directly ping an enemy). Down on Dpad to ping yourself and have your Spartan bro ask for help. Put a 5sec cool down on pings.

That sounds neat 

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The markers above a teammate should honestly show more information. Teammate shields, health, weapon/s held, and how long they have on respawn. 

+1 on the D-Pad thing. It's silly because it's such a simple way to solve a problem that they created a 10x more complicated "solution" to in H5. 

Unrelated, but movement acceleration being quadrupled or quintupled in a hypothetical Halo game would make for the most fun strafe battles you've ever seen. Combined with a 3SK utility weapon like the CE magnum but with an even faster RoF, and you have something even more intense than Quake LG battles. 

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Video is vapid. All his criticisms are a matter of personal taste. Imo criticism should be detached from your actual enjoyment of the game. 

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1 hour ago, hvs500 said:

Video is vapid. All his criticisms are a matter of personal taste. Imo criticism should be detached from your actual enjoyment of the game. 

I see what you're saying but that's virtually impossible with feedback on something as subjective as a video game. At some point it really comes down to something subjective. A great example would be someone stating that random bullet spread is objectively an inferior way to play the game. That sounds really good and most people would agree without thinking for more than a second but that is in reality just a subjective opinion without further framing and clarification of things like the scenario and clarifying inferior in what way. There is also the part where almost nobody actually cares about objectivity when giving feedback its almost always rooted in subjective feelings on the games design and how you feel when you play. I think that's totally okay too it just feels silly that so many people try to appear to be objective or present their argument as if its a fact rather than simply stating that they personally find X design less fun because of Y reason. No sane human would even attempt to receive as much feedback as you get on something like a Halo game as if every argument were presented objectively. They would lose their minds.

They can still draw conclusions from subjective feedback and do all the time. Its easy to see community sentiment within whatever realm you're investigating be it a competitive tournament or grifball league and get to the bottom of what most people deem to be less than fun and adjust for it which is what adjustments and games as a service are really all about to begin with. You can't dodge the subjectivity when the product is entertainment and you definitely don't want your feedback to avoid it

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13 hours ago, _Synapse said:

The markers above a teammate should honestly show more information. Teammate shields, health, weapon/s held, and how long they have on respawn. 

+1 on the D-Pad thing. It's silly because it's such a simple way to solve a problem that they created a 10x more complicated "solution" to in H5. 

Unrelated, but movement acceleration being quadrupled or quintupled in a hypothetical Halo game would make for the most fun strafe battles you've ever seen. Combined with a 3SK utility weapon like the CE magnum but with an even faster RoF, and you have something even more intense than Quake LG battles. 

It would be nice if pressing a dpad button would reveal more HUD elements like you mentioned, as well as other stuff like weapon timers and spawns.

There is a point where too responsive movement becomes about wiggling back and forth, which no none can predict or react to. When both accel and deaccel is tuned too high. But until that point it should be tuned high.

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1 hour ago, Snipe Three said:

I see what you're saying but that's virtually impossible with feedback on something as subjective as a video game. At some point it really comes down to something subjective. A great example would be someone stating that random bullet spread is objectively an inferior way to play the game. That sounds really good and most people would agree without thinking for more than a second but that is in reality just a subjective opinion without further framing and clarification of things like the scenario and clarifying inferior in what way. There is also the part where almost nobody actually cares about objectivity when giving feedback its almost always rooted in subjective feelings on the games design and how you feel when you play. I think that's totally okay too it just feels silly that so many people try to appear to be objective or present their argument as if its a fact rather than simply stating that they personally find X design less fun because of Y reason. No sane human would even attempt to receive as much feedback as you get on something like a Halo game as if every argument were presented objectively. They would lose their minds.

They can still draw conclusions from subjective feedback and do all the time. Its easy to see community sentiment within whatever realm you're investigating be it a competitive tournament or grifball league and get to the bottom of what most people deem to be less than fun and adjust for it which is what adjustments and games as a service are really all about to begin with. You can't dodge the subjectivity when the product is entertainment and you definitely don't want your feedback to avoid it

I agree. My problem was with how he presented his argument.

Observation:

Halo is slow

Argument: 

???

Conclusion:

Slow is bad

There isn't much argument to his argument.  Art criticism is inherently subjective but you have to give a framework of reasoning that is not "I like it" or "I don't like it" to support your argument. 

 

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6 hours ago, hvs500 said:

Video is vapid. All his criticisms are a matter of personal taste. Imo criticism should be detached from your actual enjoyment of the game. 

I think you're misinterpreting the video, he dislikes how Halo's success led to a lot of trends that ended up killing the games he liked. Halo was and is the antithesis of a PC shooter.

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11 hours ago, potetr said:

There is a point where too responsive movement becomes about wiggling back and forth, which no none can predict or react to. When both accel and deaccel is tuned too high. But until that point it should be tuned high.

That's kind of the point to it. There's no skill involved in shooting some guy who can only change directions in slow-motion. With a high accel value, you've basically propped up a near-infinite height mechanical skill ceiling. 

Prediction isn't really something we should be emphasizing to the detriment of mechanical aim in shooting, and it still does invariably play a role in gunfights. 

Honestly, the only real point at which a high accel value felt bad was when it was visibly causing camera issues and disorientation. 

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On 5/22/2021 at 5:20 PM, znot said:

could be a LOS thing. if the crosshair passes over the enemy, the spartan will chat it out. If he doesn't put the crosshair over the enemy, the game safely assumes the player (spartan) may not see it and therefore pass on calling it out. To prevent spamming of the chatter.

 

At least, that's what I would think would make sense. It's probably not the case. Could be a timing thing in conjuction with screenspace. if a spartan is visible on your screenspace past a certain threshold, the spartan will call it out.. Again screenspace and timing to prevent spam.

Has a ping system like gears has ever been talked about in  depth?

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Public PSA: Unless you understand how to play Halo at a moderately high level or can dissect it's PvE design, I consider your opinion on the topic to be worth less than shit. 

The dude's complaints were, in order, that he couldn't aim on a controller, the two weapon limit, recharging shields, and "slow" speed / lack of mobility. 

Of these, recharging shields is probably the only one that has any validity whatsoever. Even then, I don't advocate FPS design purism, there should be reign for freedom and experimentation. I don't necessarily want Halo to play like a duel where what I can challenge is a direct function of my opponent's decisions and my own remaining health. 

The two weapon limit is just a design choice, like any other aspect of Halo. It's probably an even more punishing design choice for competitive FPS than a weapon wheel. Not to mention, it breaks Halo PvE. 

In any case, calling Halo a "cover-based shooter" is dumb because you're effectively equivocating a 1+ second TTK, map and item control heavy shooter with close to the opposite. It glosses over what makes Halo tick, in favor of dumb surface-level analysis. 

In any case, mediocre video. I really don't take this guy any more seriously than I do some rando who thinks Halo 2 dual wielding was the best mechanic ever. 

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11 hours ago, Sitri said:

I think you're misinterpreting the video, he dislikes how Halo's success led to a lot of trends that ended up killing the games he liked. Halo was and is the antithesis of a PC shooter.

Dead serious question here.

when you say pc shooter do you mean shooters like counter strike where (like CoD) you drop when you’re shot?

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2 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

Dead serious question here.

when you say pc shooter do you mean shooters like counter strike where (like CoD) you drop when you’re shot?

I think he's talking more about arena shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament.  But I also didn't bother with the video so idk.

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7 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

Dead serious question here.

when you say pc shooter do you mean shooters like counter strike where (like CoD) you drop when you’re shot?

Like Hard Way said, the video was talking more about Quake or UT. Games where you're fast, your inventory isn't limited, and health doesn't recharge. Other kinds of shooters from that era also went away for a long while after Halo(and then CoD) exploded.

The guy in the video didn't even really put all of the blame on Halo, he recognized that Halo was a well-made game but just wasn't his cup of tea. What he was upset about is that its massive popularity sent a ripple through FPS as a whole and is the starting point where consoles became the focal point for developers and PC was given the shaft.

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20 hours ago, Sitri said:

where consoles became the focal point for developers and PC was given the shaft.

I wouldn’t say he’s wrong. Look at how strong aim assist is in your average shooter. Also most FPS games never go the old school arena route because it’s an obvious failure. People don’t like those games. Being tactical is a lot more satisfying to people than quick reaction times. That’s why games like cod, CS are such hardcore rage. Sure these games have their moments but unlike arena games and halo to an exent, you are encouraged not to move. If you got a power position there’s nothing that tells you to move from there. In halo and arena you got power ups, weapons, and a kick ass movement system where if you know what you’re doing can sore across the map like a boss and they can’t do anything. In cod and other games good luck. You’re either dead or most of your hp/armor is gone

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CS and COD aren't very tactical. They just feel tactical. Quake on the other hand is a VERY tactical game, It just doesn't feel like it.

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5 hours ago, hvs500 said:

CS and COD aren't very tactical. They just feel tactical. Quake on the other hand is a VERY tactical game, It just doesn't feel like it.

And that there is the problem 

you know you’re going to have to explain that. I don’t see how tactical quake is. I see all tons of movement and outside of the timing the armors, the quad DMG I don’t see it. Tactics are usually a form of strategy. Holding positions and what not. My understanding of quake is very limited. Like rainbow is a game all about strat plays to myself and most and I don’t even play it. 

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3 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

And that there is the problem 

you know you’re going to have to explain that. I don’t see how tactical quake is. I see all tons of movement and outside of the timing the armors, the quad DMG I don’t see it. Tactics are usually a form of strategy. Holding positions and what not. My understanding of quake is very limited. Like rainbow is a game all about strat plays to myself and most and I don’t even play it. 

Why should I make this play? When is the best chance to make it? Will my opponent expect it? What are the odds I can get away with this? Who’s got more HP? Should I press my advantage or play for the next item?

Trying to outthink and outposition a single opponent for 10 straight minutes is extremely tactical. The game is a lot more mentally demanding than you’re giving it credit for.

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12 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Why should I make this play? When is the best chance to make it? Will my opponent expect it? What are the odds I can get away with this? Who’s got more HP? Should I press my advantage or play for the next item?

Trying to outthink and outposition a single opponent for 10 straight minutes is extremely tactical. The game is a lot more mentally demanding than you’re giving it credit for.

And knowing what you can/can't do with the weapons you've been able to pick up on any given life.

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11 hours ago, hvs500 said:

CS and COD aren't very tactical. They just feel tactical. Quake on the other hand is a VERY tactical game, It just doesn't feel like it.

Da fuck are you on about? CS isn't tactical??

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