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Halo Infinite Discussion

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9 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

The real functional difference is you can shoot three body shots into players and a headshot and that is a kill. It does make it so you can miss a bullet and have someone die but it also means that you don't have to actually put yourself in a situation to start missing those bullets. So it cuts down on the impact of randomly missing bullets from two directions at once and brings the consistency way up because of it

Agreed, halo 3 with 110% damage is a much more consistent game. Killa KC was right to push back against pros who disagreed with this change.

Going back to the video i posted - that 9sk becomes an 8sk with 110% damage, right?

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8 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Agreed, halo 3 with 110% damage is a much more consistent game. 

Going back to the video i posted - that 9sk becomes an 8sk with 110% damage, right?

Not sure tbh. I think we would have to go count which bullets hit/miss in theater mode to figure out exactly which shots went wrong and then repeat it many times to get some kind of average for what that would've been. When you shoot as high as he was in the video from that distance the only guaranteed hit is the first bullet of the burst. We'd have to figure out how to measure distances and do some math to see if the second one is still guaranteed from that far but clearly the third bullet at the very least has the chance to miss on every burst

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7 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Not sure tbh. I think we would have to go count which bullets hit/miss in theater mode to figure out exactly which shots went wrong and then repeat it many times to get some kind of average for what that would've been

So best case scenario 7sk, worst case scenario 8sk?

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9 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

When you shoot as high as he was in the video from that distance the only guaranteed hit is the first bullet of the burst.

This pretty well exemplifies my misgivings with Halo 3 - the distance shouldn't be a factor when aiming directly at an idle target's head - particularly the distance from rocket floor to bottom portal on chill out. 

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5 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

So best case scenario 7sk, worst case scenario 8sk?

The best case scenario is probably still a 4sk from that distance unless the deviation from the original shot is high enough that it can't hit the other player which it probably isn't yet. I need to find a copy of the old bungie article that actually explains the math behind how the bullets deviate. I've actually either linked it or referenced it before but its hard to find lol

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2 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

The best case scenario is probably still a 4sk from that distance unless the deviation from the original shot is high enough that it can't hit the other player which it probably isn't yet

Hopefully the genius who thought this was a better system than bullets simply landing where you aim is no longer involved in game design. 

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4 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Hopefully the genius who thought this was a better system than bullets simply landing where you aim is no longer involved in game design. 

Yeah the bad part is that you can't really tell as a player if it was you or the game that missed the shot in any sort of objective way when you're on the MLG settings. The math tells us that it was probably your fault for not literally being perfect but you don't know that ever which is just bad game design imo.

There isn't a good way to look and say "Hey my bullet could be X degrees off of the first bullet where I was aiming and we were Y distance apart and my aim was Z from the perfect shot so here I had a whatever chance to miss or hit compared to the 100% chance of the absolute perfect shot. Its stupid and crazy for that to be in a game

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8 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I need to find a copy of the old bungie article that actually explains the math behind how the bullets deviate. I've actually either linked it or referenced it before but its hard to find lol

Ive used it a lot too and also cant find it. Have the BNET archives been purged? 

 

Edit: this is the URL http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

It redirects to the home page, you'll need to use the wayback machine. 

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10 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Ive used it a lot too and also cant find it. Have the BNET archives been purged? 

 

Edit: this is the URL http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

It redirects to the home page, you'll need to use the wayback machine. 

Alright yeah so you can see from "The first bullet can have an error between 0 and .15 degrees off of the true aiming vector. The third bullet is between 0 and 0.38 degrees, the second bullet falls somewhere between the first and third. It is a mistake to look at where the third bullet lands and assume all three bullets are that inaccurate." that apparently all three bullets could conceivably hit the same spot so I suppose there is always some chance of the perfect 4 from anywhere lol.

Its kind of hilarious but the actual important part for the MLG setting "is In the case of the Battle Rifle on Guardian, the approximate distance from Snipe 2 to Gold 2 is roughly 18 world units. Plugging those numbers into the equation yields a value of .047 world units in the absolute worst case scenario for that bullet. Since one world unit is equal to 10 feet, the variation on that bullet is 0.047 world units, or roughly half of a foot. Considering that the Spartan model is 0.75 world units (the Chief is 7 and a half feet tall) you can get a pretty good idea of what kind of variation will come from that bullet, that works out to roughly a half a foot of variation at that distance. The Chief’s helmet is approximately 0.094 world units wide, so if the shields pop, that bullet – aimed and fired accurately – under reasonable network conditions yields a kill." where you can see that basically shooting at the chest/chin area it would be damn near impossible to miss at most ranges enough that you wouldn't get a kill assuming perfect shots. There's just no good way to figure out how to be perfect in Halo 3 and its probably excessively difficult and abstract especially on a controller. So as people we just throw up shots that generally look good and hope we're right and that the game doesn't roll the worst case scenario or close enough to it to throw off whatever level of imperfect aim we do have

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Nice find, shoot me the link to that MLG article defending the V2 settings. Havent been able to find that one in ages. 

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The Halo 3 BR is just the most bungie (or blizzard) thing ever where someone who is honestly very smart overengineers a solution to their problem. They just attempted to game design with math and forgot that most people won't even begin to grasp what's happening. Tldr is that even if its not actually as random as people think if they can't understand it then it is effectively random and will be frustrating. Like even for people who do understand the math its still beyond human capability to do anything with that information in real time or just by playing the game other than adjust to shooting a little lower and praying

As a positive thing for people reading this though you could take away from these numbers that every time you ever thought spread is the reason you missed in a competitive Halo 3 game you were probably wrong and instead its just really hard to tell what the perfect shot is for you. It was more than likely someone marginally missing or the internet screwing you over with a dropped shot rather than RNG bullet spread. Since you can check for dropped shots if you really care in film its best to not even worry about the random bullets and just assume you could've shot a little better which is probably a happier place for almost everyone lol and a whole lot closer to the truth most of the time

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26 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

The Halo 3 BR is just the most bungie (or blizzard) thing ever where someone who is honestly very smart overengineers a solution to their problem. They just attempted to game design with math and forgot that most people won't even begin to grasp what's happening.

Random tripping in brawl is the H3 BR spread of the smash bros series.

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Halo needs Cold War TTK

in h3 you can do the plasma grenade trick only because the TTK is long enough to give you time to do it 

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2 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

So roughly twice as fast as H3's & modern Halo's TTKs. 

If a Halo game, or any run-n-gun game with unlimited respawns could succeed with minimum TTKs of 1.5 seconds, then Reach - H5 wouldnt have been a dumpster fire.

But what do I know? The H1 pistol's TTK made CE gunplay all about 'who-sees-who first.'

There is a monumental difference between a tenth of a second and 1.5 seconds. I'm not advocating for the latter and I'm definitely not advocating for the former. Half a second to a second is optimal to me, fast enough to empower an individual to take on multiple enemies but slow enough that people can react and kill their attacker.

 

CE pistol wasn't necessarily who sees who first due to some skill required to use, nor was it a tenth of a second kill time as was suggested. If you want to kill people with the utility weapon in a tenth of a second, Halo is not the game for you.

 

Chasing trends is a large part of why Halo is in the shit position it has been for the last decade.

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28 minutes ago, RTSxRagnarok said:

Half a second to a second is optimal to me, fast enough to empower an individual to take on multiple enemies but slow enough that people can react and kill their attacker.

Agreed. 

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CE levels of TTK are perfectly fine. However we need bullet tracers. This way you can tell how you should lead your shot 

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They're perfect for 2v2. Playing that game more often made me consider the idea that the sandbox might be too powerful for 4v4 and up. Which isn't a dig on the game btw since it was built around the Xbox which only allowed 4 controllers to be plugged in. I know Lan allowed you to do 4v4 and shit but let's be real, that's probably why 4v4 became the defacto "default" gametype over 2v2 in the first place.

 

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Halo infinite needs to feel simple. Something you pick up and know what you’re doing 

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14 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Halo infinite needs to feel simple. Something you pick up and know what you’re doing 

You mean it needs to feel like Halo

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1 hour ago, Hemlax said:

You mean it needs to feel like Halo

Obviously my point is the top games RN have something in common. They’re easy to pick up. They’re competitive but they don’t feel competitive. Fortnight, cod, valorant, etc just feel so simple. Halo infinite needs to have this feeling 

there also needs to be a learning curve that feels good. Fortnite has building. Cod and apex movement and infinite hopefully has this as well. However it shouldn’t feel so ridiculous where a player can just keep escaping easily 

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The games broken and needs to be fixed. Its just bad. Halo 3 should be the blueprint to get any ideas from. Sister games should be different though like reach was but reach isnt a good example of how Halo should play.

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46 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

What Infinite really needs to do is bring back the classic Steitzer voice. H4/5 vocals were terrible.

I think he did good job in every Halo and was one of the few reasons why I had some fun playing H4/5 while it lasted.

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