Halo Infinite Discussion

[Gobias]

4 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I'm not sure I understand the argument being made for axing the concept of power items altogether. 

Please try to be a little more woke, Lemon.

[Mr Grim]

30 minutes ago, Gobias said:

Please try to be a little more woke, Lemon.

Yeah guys come on let's not mansplain to @TheIcePrincess

[Cursed Lemon]

Seriously. 

There are really only two exceptions you can make to an in-game design choice: 

1) It's broken and/or conflicts with the design philosophy of the rest of the game

2) It's not the style you'd prefer

In the case of #2, it's kind of a "play a different game" deal in all honesty, and I'm pretty sure that's what this falls under. It is complicated, of course, by the fact that every Halo game after CE has had major things wrong with it competitively speaking, and a lot of the power items are in fact OP for various reasons, not the least of which is that our utility weapons have been pathetic for 14 years running. Regardless, there isn't anything conceptually or pragmatically wrong with the idea of power items on map because we do have an example of a Halo game (nevermind every other arena game in existence) in which the system functions as intended; as has been said previously, camo and rockets are the two big things in CE, and even when that game is pushed to the bleeding edge it fails to break down. 

 

From a more theory-based perspective, we've all railed against the idea of both rewarding players who are winning (e.g. kill streaks) as well as rewarding players who are losing (e.g. death streaks), but primarily because those things have both included an element of randomness (from the player and opponent perspectives) as well as not being an element that is actively fought over on the map. The reality is that if power items are considered to be "circumstantial", then that logic could also very easily apply to objective gametypes; a power item is, after all, an objective. You could reduce all of this talk of circumstantial gameplay down to the idea that the only fair gametype in existence is Octagon - no power items, no power positions, simple spawn system, no gains gotten through defeating your enemy, etc. I don't accept that principle, there is no competitive game in existence involving a mutual playing environment between opponents that doesn't involve some kind of benefit gained from defeating your opponent in mid-game instances. Even beyond that, it literally does not matter as long as the game functions properly, which CE does. 

[Killmachine]

i would upvote lemon post but idk how to read.

[LI Mr X IL]

On 12/23/2018 at 12:12 PM, My Namez BEAST said:

Except it has other issues as well. Like more frequent power weapon spawns. And nuke grenades. And not as many pistol duels. And only slayer. And 4v4 sucks. 

Not enough pistol duels... in CE... well now I’ve heard it all. I was told on good authority by someone on waypoint that the pistol was the only weapon anyone needed in CE. 

[My Namez BEAST]

7 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Not enough pistol duels... in CE... well now I’ve heard it all. I was told on good authority by someone on waypoint that the pistol was the only weapon anyone needed in CE. 

Dude people literally came in here and broke down the total pistol kills during the finals at Beach Lan lmao and it was sometjing like 30% i think. That coupled with constant fights against someone on uneven ground (like OS and camo) is not something I enjoy. Relax people literally don't have to LOVE CE Lol it's not that serious. 

[LI Mr X IL]

40 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Dude people literally came in here and broke down the total pistol kills during the finals at Beach Lan lmao and it was sometjing like 30% i think. That coupled with constant fights against someone on uneven ground (like OS and camo) is not something I enjoy. Relax people literally don't have to LOVE CE Lol it's not that serious. 

I am relaxed? What I said was mostly tongue in cheek sarcasm. It’s a pretty popular misconception that the pistol in CE is OP. Especially with casual players on waypoint who are convinced it makes picking up other weapons obsolete and that it’s literally the only gun you need to use to compete. I actually think the fact that it’s only 30% of the kills is kind’ve dope. I’m not trying to shove CE down anyone’s throat. I just like it more than the other Halos and I’m on a website for competitive halo discussion. I know it isn’t perfect. I actually agree with some of your points like the objective play lacking and the 4v4 being bad. There are many areas CE could improve in.

On a side note: if you (or anyone) could find that breakdown of the beach lan kills I’d love to see it.

[My Namez BEAST]

6 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

I am relaxed? What I said was mostly tongue in cheek sarcasm. It’s a pretty popular misconception that the pistol in CE is OP. Especially with casual players on waypoint who are convinced it makes picking up other weapons obsolete and that it’s literally the only gun you need to use to compete. I actually think the fact that it’s only 30% of the kills is kind’ve dope. I’m not trying to shove CE down anyone’s throat. I just like it more than the other Halos and I’m on a website for competitive halo discussion. I know it isn’t perfect. I actually agree with some of your points like the objective play lacking and the 4v4 being bad. There are many areas CE could improve in.

On a side note: if you (or anyone) could find that breakdown of the beach lan kills I’d love to see it.

Ah my bad lol. I believe it was @VinnyMendoza

[LI Mr X IL]

All good. I appreciate it.

[Hard Way]

I think they were breaking down one game of Chill Out, and iirc it was in response to some stupid argument Boyo was trying to make. So it was probably last summer.

Prisoner and Derelict alone would shoot that percentage well over 30%

[Boyo]

On 12/25/2018 at 12:30 PM, Hard Way said:

I think they were breaking down one game of Chill Out, and iirc it was in response to some stupid argument Boyo was trying to make. So it was probably last summer.

Prisoner and Derelict alone would shoot that percentage well over 30%

[Batchford]

I need information on this game sooner rather than later.

 

I feel me slowly losing my sanity the more I play H3 on West Coast host.

[S0UL FLAME]

33 minutes ago, Batchford said:

I need information on this game sooner rather than later.

 

I feel me slowly losing my sanity the more I play H3 on West Coast host.

Are you prepared for the consequences

[Batchford]

1 minute ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Are you prepared for the consequences

It will be better than H5, but how much so is yet to be seen.

[xSociety]

18 minutes ago, Batchford said:

It will be better than H5, but how much so is yet to be seen.

I've said that for every new Halo game. The only time it was ever true was basically H4 to H5, and H5 sucks ass so there's that.

[Batchford]

4 minutes ago, xSociety said:

I've said that for every new Halo game. The only time it was ever true was basically H4 to H5, and H5 sucks ass so there's that.

The difference between Bungie era and 343 era is that Bungie started with something amazing and ran it into the ground. 

343 may have made several mistakes and had some growing pains to say the least, but they (in my opinion) are on the other side of the spectrum. They are definitely on the upwards.

You may think I am biased because I have been flown out to several events, spoken to several members of 343 and etc, but I think Chris Lee has a good head on his shoulders and will do a good job with the Infinite project. Of course it could still absolutely suck, but I would be personally shocked considering all the good things they have done so far, such as their new stance on social media/content creation. 

[Fixaimingsorry]

10 minutes ago, Batchford said:

The difference between Bungie era and 343 era is that Bungie started with something amazing and ran it into the ground. 

343 may have made several mistakes and had some growing pains to say the least, but they (in my opinion) are on the other side of the spectrum. They are definitely on the upwards.

You may think I am biased because I have been flown out to several events, spoken to several members of 343 and etc, but I think Chris Lee has a good head on his shoulders and will do a good job with the Infinite project. Of course it could still absolutely suck, but I would be personally shocked considering all the good things they have done so far, such as their new stance on social media/content creation. 

I’m just waiting for that no sprint announcement. Or at least spartan ability removal. 

[Boyo]

51 minutes ago, Batchford said:

The difference between Bungie era and 343 era is that Bungie started with something amazing and ran it into the ground. 

343 may have made several mistakes and had some growing pains to say the least, but they (in my opinion) are on the other side of the spectrum. They are definitely on the upwards.

You may think I am biased because I have been flown out to several events, spoken to several members of 343 and etc, but I think Chris Lee has a good head on his shoulders and will do a good job with the Infinite project. Of course it could still absolutely suck, but I would be personally shocked considering all the good things they have done so far, such as their new stance on social media/content creation. 

Well as long as their stance on social media/content creation is good then the game should be awesome.

[VinnyMendoza]

Constant negativity is draining.

I'm all for criticism, got a warning on my account for criticism directed to 343, haven't bought a single 343 product outside of MCC (and I wouldn't have bought it at least at launch had I really known what was coming...), but you have to admit so far with Infinite trailers, news and social streams, the huge exodus of former employees and the intake of new blood that appreciates old school Halo, things are pointing in the right direction. I am of course holding my breath until flighting and I get my hands on the game/trailers show more "classic Halo" gameplay. But I think it's good to be cautiously optimistic towards the next Halo.

[OG Nick]

#FreeCooper

[VinnyMendoza]

On 12/25/2018 at 1:06 AM, My Namez BEAST said:

Ah my bad lol. I believe it was @VinnyMendoza

Yeah I think it was me, but uhhh really not enough pistol duels in CE? Lol. I argued there weren't as many as people think but there's definitely a pretty high percentage of pistol duels or at least precision vs precision (pistol and a sniper that acts more as a more skillful and powerful utility). I think high level CE has a perfect balance of the sandbox. A lot of these other weapons only work if you are making a risk/reward decision and banking on the other guy missing more often than not. I've sprayed a guy at close range with an AR many times and gotten embarrassed when they turn and 3sked me. And when it works it's not usually because the pistol is less powerful, it's because the other guy wasn't good enough with it.

Keep in mind NHE makes pistol/sniper usage much harder too... if it was all onhost you'd see it work more often and thus you'd see more duels. And the AR tanks framerate which also makes pistoling harder. These two factors are definitely part of the reason why MCC is "easier" (although it's still mostly the lag compensation).

[Banamy]

1 hour ago, VinnyMendoza said:

Yeah I think it was me, but uhhh really not enough pistol duels in CE? Lol. I argued there weren't as many as people think but there's definitely a pretty high percentage of pistol duels or at least precision vs precision (pistol and a sniper that acts more as a more skillful and powerful utility). I think high level CE has a perfect balance of the sandbox. A lot of these other weapons only work if you are making a risk/reward decision and banking on the other guy missing more often than not. I've sprayed a guy at close range with an AR many times and gotten embarrassed when they turn and 3sked me. And when it works it's not usually because the pistol is less powerful, it's because the other guy wasn't good enough with it.

Keep in mind NHE makes pistol/sniper usage much harder too... if it was all onhost you'd see it work more often and thus you'd see more duels. And the AR tanks framerate which also makes pistoling harder. These two factors are definitely part of the reason why MCC is "easier" (although it's still mostly the lag compensation).

Yes, a lot of the guys who were strong advocates for sprint, warzone, etc are all gone now. Chris Lee is now the lead, and he has potential. Tom French the former head of forge is now leading multiplayer, he's a big advocate for fan feedback. I have faith in their upper management, this time around.

[Basu]

3 hours ago, Banamy said:

Tom French the former head of forge is now leading multiplayer, he's a big advocate for fan feedback. 

Literally the first thing he did after getting that position was make fun of a 343-critical youtuber on Twitter by using the "let me guess you want to remove sprint and get a Halo 3.5". Doesn't really give me much faith. He did a tremendous job with H5 forge, unfortunately it was largely for nothing as 343 botched the framerate on forge maps with the WZFF update, this kind of stuff can very likely happen again. 

Otherwise I agree, there's been an exodus of some  people that definitely dragged the franchise down (Kevin Franklin, Josh Holmes - a cool dude but his stance on sprint was indefensible- , Dan Ayoob etc.)  Keep in mind though that (almost?) the entire Pro team also left last year so take that as you will.

 

[Boyo]

I will only upvote Walshy as Uncle Jesse.  All these new options are fucking with me.

[Fixaimingsorry]

10 hours ago, Batchford said:

The difference between Bungie era and 343 era is that Bungie started with something amazing and ran it into the ground. 

343 may have made several mistakes and had some growing pains to say the least, but they (in my opinion) are on the other side of the spectrum. They are definitely on the upwards.

You may think I am biased because I have been flown out to several events, spoken to several members of 343 and etc, but I think Chris Lee has a good head on his shoulders and will do a good job with the Infinite project. Of course it could still absolutely suck, but I would be personally shocked considering all the good things they have done so far, such as their new stance on social media/content creation. 

I’m just waiting for that no sprint announcement. Or at least spartan ability removal. 

343s removal of abilities is the direction I and many need to see. We can’t have another h4&5. I hope 343 can see these things can’t be implemented without completely screwing over the classic community which I bet my ass is bigger than the community that likes this new shit. Heck’s most of those guys Prpbavly the community in cod that liked advanced movement. But cod Devs knew who their “real” audience was, they knew they couldn’t come up with a “compromise” they had to remove the bullshit. Now if cod devs can see that after 3 games, let’s see if 343 can.