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8 minutes ago, Xandrith said:

I won't be posting here anymore.

If only you had your own forum to jerk each other off on...

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Chunk’s map?  

No. It was a co-forge, and I initially sketched it. Ask him, or read the thread. Even then, we've both made much better things since then. Goodbye boyo.

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9 minutes ago, Xandrith said:

There is a 100% chance that I would whoop boyos ass at any given competitive game on the market

These kids don’t know that I have played Halo with all of them already.  They can’t front on me.  

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Camo lacks integrity.  

Pick ups lack integrity.  

RPS geometry forces movement without pick ups.  
 

These are the claims that you have made.  I do not believe you have made convincing arguments to support these claims.  Sorry if that makes me the bad guy.  I want to understand your point of view but I honestly don’t.  

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Camo lacks integrity.  

Pick ups lack integrity.  

RPS geometry forces movement without pick ups.  
 

These are the claims that you have made.  I do not believe you have made convincing arguments to support these claims.  Sorry if that makes me the bad guy.  I want to understand your point of view but I honestly don’t.  

What's your gamertag. 

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Just now, MultiLockOn said:

What's your gamertag. 

Something that I would give you in a PM if you were asking genuinely.  

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1 hour ago, Xandrith said:

It was Epicenter, and while it's not my best or my favorite map, there you go.

 

You know that map is actually very good as it plays quite well. There’s a version of it in h2a mm. It’s a map that if 343 gave a dev design to it, it would be amazing.

On a side note it’s rare to see game devs who don’t suck at games no offense, Makes sense most don’t play on that comp level, Would love to see your skills in quake. 

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Let’s talk about forge maps and dev maps. Many forge maps have come and gone and some are great. They play great and feel good to play on. But they never end up staying or in the Hcs for long. Forge in halo has never looked th at great and I hope h6 can break the cycle. The worse bummer about devs maps is we can’t get a test inn them. If a dev map comes that looks beautiful but plays like a load of shit the devs aren’t going to say “well the map sucked were not putting it in retail. no they put weeks to months effort coding and making it, they’re not going to do that. It be great if we could get forge maps implemented in a test then once a map has gotten extreme love and likes the devs take that map and do a dev version of the map. This could completely help prevent bad maps being made by developers. What do you think @MultiLockOn @Xandrith

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This gameplay is very interesting. 
Quake champs map designs are something I’d like to see in halo as there’s not a way to truly lock down a spot as there’s multiple entries and portals and lifts 

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6 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Well I would say that’s the way 343 will appeal to the masses. They’ve laid the ground work so people who’ve seen the gameplay will most likely like it if they enjoy games like apex or OW. As for the content if there’s tons of stuff to grind for and the cosmetics are appealing(uny said that 90% is unlockable in game if I remember) . If they can make it so it takes a lot of skill that’d be great 

What you said will get people to play but will not get people to stay.

5 hours ago, Boyo said:

Something that I would give you in a PM if you were asking genuinely.  

I get the impression that Multi genuinely wants to get his point across to you.

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Are there any default Halo maps that came close to reaching your standard of integrity? 

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Trickle Down Sandbox 

Halo should have a wild ass gamemode that features all sorts niche items; weapons, vehicles, abilities.  The addition of all these acute items makes this gamemode play like no other in Halo but the real reason for its inclusion has yet to be revealed.  

All the gadgets and gizmos that came together to create this unique gamemode were designed in a modular fashion so they can be broken down into individual bits.  These bits can then be reorganized and reapplied, in the creation of other gametypes.  

Halo is its sandbox.  Among a few other tools, the sandbox is what provides the foundation for longevity.  A modular set of blocks and plates lets you forge maps.  A modular set of items allows you to forge experiences.  

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How to Evolve Arena Halo 

 

Instead of dropping your spawn utility weapon, you automatically holster it once two additional weapons are picked up.  To re-equip the Magnum, hold Y for a moment.  

This is a trickle down mechanic.  Sidearms are used in Invasion to give team leaders a third unique weapon.  It just so happens that one of those sidearms is the Magnum, allowing Arena players to holster their utility instead of dropping it.  Dual innovation.  

 

Aerial Abilities are pick-ups that are activated by the jump button while the player is airborne.  

 

Jump Jet - double jump 

Wall Kick - move up and away from wall 

Gravity Gauntlet - airborne lunge followed by clamber if a ledge is reached 

Glider - reduced descent speed, increased forward movement speed, steerable 

 

These are abilities given to team leaders in Invasion off spawn.  As trickle down pick-ups in Arena, they can give map makers the tools to prevent certain setups from becoming too dominant (as well as just being fun to use at the lower skill levels).  

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Reach's forge got shit on so badly for its gray palette, but to this day I still think the shitty lighting of H4 forge maps is way more disorienting than the Reach gray. I feel like the "look" of some of Reach's forge maps have held up way better, even if the quality of maps took a huge leap forward during the H4 era. 

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9 hours ago, Shekkles said:

What you said will get people to play but will not get people to stay.

I get the impression that Multi genuinely wants to get his point across to you.

I don’t think so as grinds in games make people stay I believe. The true way to get a crowd going is to have a decent skill gap in the game but make it so it’s not a frustrating one. 

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6 hours ago, Boyo said:

Trickle Down Sandbox 

Halo should have a wild ass gamemode that features all sorts niche items; weapons, vehicles, abilities.  The addition of all these acute items makes this gamemode play like no other in Halo but the real reason for its inclusion has yet to be revealed.  

All the gadgets and gizmos that came together to create this unique gamemode were designed in a modular fashion so they can be broken down into individual bits.  These bits can then be reorganized and reapplied, in the creation of other gametypes.  

Halo is its sandbox.  Among a few other tools, the sandbox is what provides the foundation for longevity.  A modular set of blocks and plates lets you forge maps.  A modular set of items allows you to forge experiences.  

I was just thinking 343 can give us no sprint and sprint.

 

Give us both maps. Make one classic sized = no sprint, then give us the sprint/enhanced mobility playlists... Same maps but literally taken into MAYA and scaled bigger for sprint. LMAO

 

Imagine playing the same goddamn map, everything is the same except the size and ability to run. It's honestly blowing my mind how possible this is but weird.

 

Right there behind symmetrical guardian 

 

86f9bc773291de2a109e31934a6b48ae.gif

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Glider is air-sprint (in a good way).  

Sprint can only be activated while on the ground.  Glider can only be activated while airborne.  

Sprint is unlimited.  Glider constantly loses altitude as it travels forward so its range is limited by the player’s initial elevation; get higher to go further.  

Sprint disables attack.  Glider allows the airborne player to fire because it is not a risk/reward mechanic like sprint.  Because sprint is a universal base trait, it needs to have a downside.  Glider is a pick-up and needs no such downside.  

Glider follows a predictable pattern and has a limited duration.    The player can turn left and right but cannot increase his altitude.  Since altitude is the currency that pays for forward movement, the range is self limiting (due to gravity).  

Because a player needs to at least jump prior to activating his forward speed boost, it creates a barrier to entry in a good way.  To get the most of out the ability, you need to run and jump in the direction you want to go, making it more than just a “gotta go fast” button.  It has synergy with the base abilities.  

Because glider is activated by the same button as jump, it can be mapped to a bumper for easy access.  Modern games shouldn’t require extra paddles on the controller due to an excess of uncondensed abilities.  

Because sandbox design influences map design and vice versa (ideally), new map designs will hopefully be possible, featuring tower to tower battles with an element of aerial-infantry.  Gravity lifts, man cannons, and teleporters to elevated areas hold a greater significance when Glider is also on the map.  Anything that can increase the player’s elevation acts as fuel for the glider.  Sandbox design feeds into map design.  

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17 hours ago, Boyo said:

Camo lacks integrity.  

Pick ups lack integrity.  

RPS geometry forces movement without pick ups.  
 

These are the claims that you have made.  I do not believe you have made convincing arguments to support these claims.  Sorry if that makes me the bad guy.  I want to understand your point of view but I honestly don’t.  

Which iteration of camo are you referring to? 

The main issue with H5's camo is the fact that it acts as more then just a " visual camoflauge" this is an issue with how the aim assist/sticky reticule of an opposing player interact with someone who has camo. Instead of Camo serving its primary function of granting a player visual camouflage, it also grants is user a secondary (even more powerful ability in my eyes)that effectively shuts off an enemy's ability to target you fairly by decreasing the aim assist/sticky to extremely low levels. This means the person using camo not only has the visual advantage in the fight, but also a mechanical aim assit/sticky reticule advantage... which acts as a pseudo-over shield.   That's the problem in my eyes, not the actual visual camouflage.    

 

Im from the forge community, and I also design maps.

 MultiLockOn and Xandrith are very intelligent and creative designers but they are human and have there own issues understanding that there subjective preferences are not ALWAYS objective gold standards... as well as issues with self evaluation of there own designs and others. Interestingly enough, many of there maps (not all) completely hinge on power-ups in order to prevent stagnation and camping.. I'm in the camp that believes maps can be unique and follow there own set of rules and standards depending on the design goal for the map and the identity you want the gameplay to hold.  That means if you wish to design a map that doesn't hinge on power weapons/pickups being needed to promote movement, all the power to you and be aware of that goal the entire design process so that your final design reflects this intent. I also believe it to be viable to design with the idea and intent that powerweapons/pickups will be the primary resource that drives player movement. Neither of these ideas/stances are flawed in and of themselves... its all about the application and intent of the designer and the audience they are trying to target.

 

Raw map geometry itself is a "resource" as  its territory essentially, just as a power weapon/pickup is a resource. Slayer is primarily resource/territory control. When gunskill is equal, those that most effectively use and control the territory and resources will win.  I personally prefer maps in which the geometry is the primary  resource that promotes player movement, but this doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean this style of design is "objectively better". Its a subjective preference, and its important to understand that. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

Which iteration of camo are you referring to? 

A quantum super position of all existing iterations as well as theoretical ones.  
 

 

6 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

[camo] shuts off an enemy's ability to target you fairly by decreasing the aim assist/sticky to extremely low levels

Do you think aim assist elements like reticle friction should activate when targeting a camo’d player?  Wouldn't that tug give away the camo player and defeat its purpose?  
 

 

8 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

Im from the forge community, and I also design maps.

I know.  Opticon was dope.  I searched for a gameplay video from it but turned up empty.  You play so many matches on these maps then some time goes by and not a single video can be found.  They exist now only in my memory.  
 

https://www.forgehub.com/maps/opticon.114/

 

23 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

MultiLockOn and Xandrith are very intelligent and creative designers

I agree.  

23 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

but they are human and have there own issues understanding that there subjective preferences are not ALWAYS objective gold standards...

First of all, how dare you.  
 

15 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

I'm in the camp that believes maps can be unique and follow there own set of rules and standards depending on the design goal for the map and the identity you want the gameplay to hold.  That means if you wish to design a map that doesn't hinge on power weapons/pickups being needed to promote movement, all the power to you and be aware of that goal the entire design process so that your final design reflects this intent. I also believe it to be viable to design with the idea and intent that powerweapons/pickups will be the primary resource that drives player movement. Neither of these ideas/stances are flawed in and of themselves... its all about the application and intent of the designer and the audience they are trying to target.

Thank you for injecting some sanity and nuance into the conversation.  I feel the same way, in that maps can accomplish different goals through different methods and still provide a fair, enjoyable experience.  While I do enjoy a good BR dome, I think it misses the point in a very plain way.  The sandbox is the fun parent.  The map is the strict one.  They’re both needed but one sets rules and the other bends/breaks them.  Point being, I think maps should showcase sandbox items just because they are fun and test different skills.  
 

25 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

Raw map geometry itself is a "resource" as  its territory essentially, just as a power weapon/pickup is a resource. Slayer is primarily resource/territory control. When gunskill is equal, those that most effectively use and control the territory and resources will win.  I personally prefer maps in which the geometry is the primary  resource that promotes player movement, but this doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean this style of design is "objectively better". Its a subjective preference, and its important to understand that. 

I understand what you are saying and get how it’s more pure but if we had fun, balanced toys, wouldn’t you want to play with them?  Wouldn’t you want to design maps that complimented them, showcased them in interesting ways?  The balance between items and geometry, the synergy between sandbox and map, that’s the magic of Halo.  

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1 hour ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

I'm in the camp that believes maps can be unique and follow there own set of rules and standards depending on the design goal for the map and the identity you want the gameplay to hold.  That means if you wish to design a map that doesn't hinge on power weapons/pickups being needed to promote movement, all the power to you and be aware of that goal the entire design process so that your final design reflects this intent. I also believe it to be viable to design with the idea and intent that powerweapons/pickups will be the primary resource that drives player movement. Neither of these ideas/stances are flawed in and of themselves... its all about the application and intent of the designer and the audience they are trying to target.

 

Raw map geometry itself is a "resource" as  its territory essentially, just as a power weapon/pickup is a resource. Slayer is primarily resource/territory control. When gunskill is equal, those that most effectively use and control the territory and resources will win.  I personally prefer maps in which the geometry is the primary  resource that promotes player movement, but this doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean this style of design is "objectively better". Its a subjective preference, and its important to understand that. 

 

 

I think you said a lot of what I was trying to say but better in these two paragraphs 

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All the forgers should migrate over here if these are the sort of discussions that take place. Never thought about map design like this.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

Glider is air-sprint (in a good way).  

Sprint can only be activated while on the ground.  Glider can only be activated while airborne.  

Sprint is unlimited.  Glider constantly loses altitude as it travels forward so its range is limited by the player’s initial elevation; get higher to go further.  

Sprint disables attack.  Glider allows the airborne player to fire because it is not a risk/reward mechanic like sprint.  Because sprint is a universal base trait, it needs to have a downside.  Glider is a pick-up and needs no such downside.  

Glider follows a predictable pattern and has a limited duration.    The player can turn left and right but cannot increase his altitude.  Since altitude is the currency that pays for forward movement, the range is self limiting (due to gravity).  

Because a player needs to at least jump prior to activating his forward speed boost, it creates a barrier to entry in a good way.  To get the most of out the ability, you need to run and jump in the direction you want to go, making it more than just a “gotta go fast” button.  It has synergy with the base abilities.  

Because glider is activated by the same button as jump, it can be mapped to a bumper for easy access.  Modern games shouldn’t require extra paddles on the controller due to an excess of uncondensed abilities.  

Because sandbox design influences map design and vice versa (ideally), new map designs will hopefully be possible, featuring tower to tower battles with an element of aerial-infantry.  Gravity lifts, man cannons, and teleporters to elevated areas hold a greater significance when Glider is also on the map.  Anything that can increase the player’s elevation acts as fuel for the glider.  Sandbox design feeds into map design.  

Boyo, a lot of shit you advocate for is just extra complexity. I feel like gliders fall in that category. You've made some good contributions like the assault rifle railgun, I feel like they'd actually improve the game, but gliders? No. 

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