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On 3/13/2021 at 5:02 PM, Reamis25 said:

This isn’t a debate about how good fast TTK is stupid, it’s the fact even if get a fast TTK it’s not going to be how you’re imagining. It’s going to be near hitscan level in the average encounter I can guarantee you that. You keep imagining a utility that’s fast but takes a ton of skill like CE where the perfect TTK and average is far apart. But really it’s gonna be like h5 levels of hit detection. 

I dont care, either scenario is a massive improvement over what we have. 

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Adrift has to be one of the worst maps in the franchise 

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I think people might really miss the point of camo. I don't think anyone ever designed it to be "balanced" exactly. Sure you don't want things to get too out of control once someone gets ahold of it (that's why it expires eventually) but you're intended to have a large advantage. You won the camo this is the reward. That's why fighting for it and timing it are skills that Halo players truly care about. If I could reasonably just out play someone that grabs it because its "fair" then I really wouldn't care about timing it or fighting over it and it might as well not be on the map most of the time. All of the descriptions of things people do once they realize they're at that disadvantage are skill/knowledge gaps that players have to get through to learn to play but you should never forget that at a basic level that's punishment for making the bad play of not getting camo yourself. All of that is just you trying to influence just how big the camo run is about to be. The fair portion was you failing to pick it up and fighting the camo is dealing with your consequences after failure

The reason that power ups or weapons are good to fight over to me is that if we weren't including any of that eventually the game would come around to the same few plays once people really got good at whatever the map is and would reward a smaller range of skill types. Introducing more chances to think or a changing list of objectives on the map rewards people for being able to use multiple weapons or think about the map differently from time to time. If you really wanted to just see who has a better shot we could just load up octagon or some basic map with a little bit of geometry in every game and see what happens but there are so many more skills someone might have in a game like Halo that its a shame to focus on just the basics. The sort of "dumb" power ups are really great at flexing that type of skill because they're really strong for anyone that gets it. Rockets too. If all of them were aim skill based like a sniper rifle you would really just be rewarding the dudes that shoot really well first and then trying to see which dude that shoots really well has a better strategy for picking things up second. It would be very hard to be a guy that doesn't shoot so well but is amazing at setting up and being in the right place because the game doesn't really reward you so much for that alone. I think Halo having things like the sniper rifle in Halo 3 at the same time that they have things like the rockets really creates space for both of these types of players to be good but different. The way different weapons reward different types of skills or players by differing amounts creates a lot of depth by offering outlets for exceptional mechanical skill and a game that is appealing to more people at the same time by offering rewards to people who are smart rather than mechanically inclined. Obviously you want to be both and to just be some kind of perfectly balanced player but real people don't turn out that way. Halo is somewhat unique in that it strikes way more of a balance between mechanical skill and intelligence than most fps games I've ever played. Its one of the only games that you can really make up for being a bit below average shooting wise by just being smarter all the way up to the pro level

Halo to me is a lot like basketball. Plays break down all the time and you see some positionless plays in basketball but at the same time everyone is different and you're trying to build a team that compliments each other's skill sets. You've got your big guys that can't shoot but take easy layups, dunks or shots very near the basket, you have your shooters that get rewarded from the three point line and you have your defensive specialist guys who can't shoot worth a damn and aren't that big but they still make a huge impact etc. Having that broad range of viable skill sets is cool and fun to see

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14 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Adrift has to be one of the worst maps in the franchise 

Have you played any of the Halo 5 "DLC" maps

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Anyone else think this game may have had a better chance if only 2-3 industries were working on the game? 343 seems excessive, I get the sense this may be a too-many-cooks-in-the-kitchen situation.

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I'm not sure what you mean? He was on the Multiplayer UX design lead. He worked with the Xbox Live team to integrate Halo 2 features with Xbox 360 standard features (friends lists for example). Lobbies/parties/matchmaking all had to be designed from the ground up again to work with the new Xbox Live architecture. But he sat down and did it with his team and Halo 3 launched with more features than Halo 2. 

Oh I thought by your original comment was negative because h3 didn’t launch with the button glitches 

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1 hour ago, Aphex Twin said:

I dont care, either scenario is a massive improvement over what we have. 

Ok but don’t be bitching that it’s easy AF to get perfects 

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2 hours ago, OG Nick said:

Have you played any of the Halo 5 "DLC" maps

Man sometimes it takes stepping back to even recognize what was happening. During Halo 5's time for me I knew those maps were shitty but if you think about it more in depth how crazy is it that as a community we collectively just quit out of specific maps before they could load until they had to remove them? Those maps were so fucking bad its insane that that happened lmao

I don't even know where to begin. That's like tar and feather the designer bad. We've always had some bad maps in Halo but never to the point that the players actively revolted and quit playing on them. I sincerely hope that whoever lead those projects or designed them is no longer involved in the map creation process. I don't want to just decide who it was that made those maps so poorly but hopefully the problem is resolved because their work transcended subjective like/dislike in entirely the wrong direction

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4 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Man sometimes it takes stepping back to even recognize what was happening. During Halo 5's time for me I knew those maps were shitty but if you think about it more in depth how crazy is it that as a community we collectively just quit out of specific maps before they could load until they had to remove them? Those maps were so fucking bad its insane that that happened lmao

I don't even know where to begin. That's like tar and feather the designer bad. We've always had some bad maps in Halo but never to the point that the players actively revolted and quit playing on them. I sincerely hope that whoever lead those projects or designed them is no longer involved in the map creation process. I don't want to just decide who it was that made those maps so poorly but hopefully the problem is resolved because their work transcended subjective like/dislike in entirely the wrong direction

It's funny to think that one of the draws for Halo 5 was no paid DLC. Every single post-release map was so bad it might as well have been no DLC.

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9 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

It's funny to think that one of the draws for Halo 5 was no paid DLC. Every single post-release map was so bad it might as well have been no DLC.

Yeah it sucks too because the idea wasn't really that bad reusing assets wise but then they just completely failed to put it together. It could've been a cool way to get new maps faster

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19 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

Yeah it sucks too because the idea wasn't really that bad reusing assets wise but then they just completely failed to put it together. It could've been a cool way to get new maps faster

Turf is a perfect example of reusing assets to make a unique and fun experience. It looked, sounded and felt like Outskirts but it wasn't and I still think it's a fantastic social map.

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Playlist rank determines who plays as officers in Invasion.  Since the top three players act as buddy spawns for the rest of the team, they influence the game more than the tourist who doesn’t know what he’s doing.  

 

Tourists can be guided by the more knowledgeable players, not through voice commands but merely by the fact that the officers determine the team’s available spawns.  Officers shape the game through their actions, the positions that they take.  

 

Playlists traditionally try to match all players of equal skill level.  Invasion is more flexible because each team has two player pools, high skill and low skill.  Each team needs three high skill players as officers and six low skill players as soldiers.  

 

Matches are more fun for both types of player.  The low skill player can still run around, doing his own thing like he always would but the high skill player gets to secretly shape the match, invisibly guide his teammates, keep them pushing towards the common goal.  

 

What do you think about mixing skill levels in matchmaking but giving the higher skilled players more authority over the outcome of the match?  

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10 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

Man sometimes it takes stepping back to even recognize what was happening. During Halo 5's time for me I knew those maps were shitty but if you think about it more in depth how crazy is it that as a community we collectively just quit out of specific maps before they could load until they had to remove them? Those maps were so fucking bad its insane that that happened lmao

I don't even know where to begin. That's like tar and feather the designer bad. We've always had some bad maps in Halo but never to the point that the players actively revolted and quit playing on them. I sincerely hope that whoever lead those projects or designed them is no longer involved in the map creation process. I don't want to just decide who it was that made those maps so poorly but hopefully the problem is resolved because their work transcended subjective like/dislike in entirely the wrong direction

Yeah honestly the maps were all trash. From an art perspective I guess they looked alright but they played like shit. Stasis was the only decent DLC but even that map got boycotted. Sometimes I think 343 needs to hire the top forgers who are known for making great maps. @MultiLockOn would be one of them but he got cancel cultured because 343 took his saying too literally. 
Let’s hope map making is easier this time around. Making maps designed with sprint clamber & slide shouldn’t be hard. Those are basic traits every game has these days. In h5 you had to take into account 7 movement abilities. There were some forge maps that made it into TS which were quite good. 

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11 hours ago, NavG123 said:

It's funny to think that one of the draws for Halo 5 was no paid DLC. Every single post-release map was so bad it might as well have been no DLC.

Mercy was pretty. And since every other Halo 5 map was ugly as hell, it was so fun to walk around pretty map. It was so pretty, I was forced not to sprint, just walk and observe, imagine. Therefore, in a sense, it was better and more fun than every other H5 map.

I tried.

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1 minute ago, Hemlax said:

Mercy was pretty. And since every other Halo 5 map was ugly as hell, it was so fun to walk around pretty map. It was so pretty, I was forced not to sprint, just walk and observe, imagine. Therefore, in a sense, it was better and more fun than every other H5 map.

I tried.

I actually surprised mercy was never used in comp because that was haven. Although mercy with h5 movement felt way too fast. 

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4 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I actually surprised mercy was never used in comp because that was haven. Although mercy with h5 movement felt way too fast. 

I think it was broken, can't remember in what way. I mean every H5 map was broken and slapped on with a sticker going with "working as intended", because without that, there would be no map to play on. So, yeah.

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2 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

I think it was broken, can't remember in what way. I mean every H5 map was broken and slapped on with a sticker going with "working as intended", because without that, there would be no map to play on. So, yeah.

I think one thing that ruined many maps was the thrust slide combo.being able to sore across the map in less than a second was fun but overly ridiculous 

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41 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I think one thing that ruined many maps was the thrust slide combo.being able to sore across the map in less than a second was fun but overly ridiculous 

They fixed that soon after it was discovered if I remember correctly.

What broke the maps though was stabilze/zoom/clamber and spring jump. This added to already cluttered layouts like another thousand pathways. This, together with Splyce playing the way they played, fully stripped Halo 5 down to it's broken, non working design.

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4 hours ago, Hemlax said:

They fixed that soon after it was discovered if I remember correctly.

What broke the maps though was stabilze/zoom/clamber and spring jump. This added to already cluttered layouts like another thousand pathways. This, together with Splyce playing the way they played, fully stripped Halo 5 down to it's broken, non working design.

Uhhh no they did not ever do that. It’s still in the game to this day. What you’re talking about is what you could do with sword.

i don’t think clamber or spring jump breaks maps especially when they were built with clamber in mind. The pace of the maps changed drastically because of spring thrust slide combo 

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15 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Adrift has to be one of the worst maps in the franchise 

I had an idea for a map called "Boarding Actagon."  Take Boarding Action and scale it down a bit.  Then fold up the two sides so that the overall shape becomes an Octagon.  

You would still have to use teleporters to get to the other side because there would be a big wall where the red and blue sides meet on each end that was folded in.  It would be like a multi floor Octagon map with cover so it could actually be used for 4v4 or even 8v8.   

I was thinking man cannons could be added to the bottom and top floors for additional way to change sides.  This would add opportunity for some fun sniping shots mid air. 

This would be a really simple top down view of one level.

kDJlIeE.jpg 

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Unconventional maps could use unconventional items.  How about a piece of equipment that teleports you to a random spawn point?  A certain degree of chaos is the goal, right?  

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52 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Uhhh no they did not ever do that. It’s still in the game to this day. What you’re talking about is what you could do with sword.

i don’t think clamber or spring jump breaks maps especially when they were built with clamber in mind. The pace of the maps changed drastically because of spring thrust slide 

This is still in the game?

https://gameclipscontent-d2018.xboxlive.com/000900000503756b-f7290777-b880-4040-bece-952d3ade8641/GameClip-Original.MP4?sv=2015-12-11&sr=b&si=DefaultAccess&sig=lngx8LTy15aqFzoycCepinZI8yfeIAL7d2mDOA4gddE%3D&__gda__=1615838627_03938ccef8b745c03fdd72f5d04377ff

 

IMG-20210315-202014.jpg

Edit.: The fact that clamber, stabilize etc.. are built in features doesn't mean anything. H5 maps are designed around clamber, yes, but tons of the routes used in pro play were never intended. 343 may be proud how their game has "evolved", but all that has left from their initial map designs is bunch of boxes, walls and windows you can traverse any way you like. Just look at Tox having perfect setups being taken apart by flying supermans with no particular strategy whatsoever. That is how H5 has evolved. That is the  H5 competitive pinnacle.

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I actually surprised mercy was never used in comp because that was haven. Although mercy with h5 movement felt way too fast. 

It being Haven is not a ringing endorsement of its merit as a competitive map...

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17 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Adrift has to be one of the worst maps in the franchise 

I raise you overgrowth

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