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Halo Infinite Discussion

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18 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Of all the random shit I knew of Halo, this picture was not one of them. I think that's so cool. 

H3Arch-large.jpg

 

SCArch.jpg

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13 hours ago, Boyo said:

 

If you take the time to write it I'll take the time to read it. No worries if you don't want to though.

11 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

One thing that would alleviate this, at least for competitive play outside of randomized matchmaking, is having starting spawn points correspond to your slot in lobby, so if you're player 4 every time, you know exactly which spawn point you're going to get in order to ensure you're the one spawning on the spawn closest to OS on Pit, rather than at the mercy of the game's randomizer where some games you may get the good spawn and others you may not.

 

This was an even bigger issue in BTB than it was any other gametype -- in Halo 3, teams playing on Standoff would have the 8th member (usually the laggiest) spawn on top of the base, next to a Mongoose.  It was eventually realized this was the fastest route to the laser, so that person's job was to grab the laser and pull it back to their side.  But it wasn't consistent who would get that spawn, it was just... random.  So even if you tried to divvy up specific jobs to people on your team, you had to have contingencies to account for "If x person gets the mongoose spawn" -- this wouldn't be the case if you could control who got the mongoose spawn.

I like the sound of this idea, but I do still feel that even if such a system did exist, power weapon spawns at the start of a match should still be delayed 15-30 seconds. I much prefer the idea of players having to think about what kind of strategy they are going to use at the start of a match instead of just taking a power weapon spawn for granted. 

For example the sniper spawn on Pit in H3, it's just a given that one player on the team is going to run to sniper spawn and be granted a free power weapon with zero skill or thinking involved in aquiring such a powerful weapon, a weapon that in the right hands has the potential to swing the entire outcome of a match. There's no decision to be made there, the decision has been made for you by the game. I think the fact you could lose your teams sniper due to a team out strategizing you before the sniper spawns is much more of an interesting scenario, and offers up and whole bunch on new possibilites when it comes to starting strats.

I was watching SnakeBite play H5 a few weeks ago and someone asked what his teams starting strats were, he replied with, and I'm not exaggerating, "We don't really have starting strats." I found that kind of insane coming from the current best team in the world, but it really makes sense when you consider how the game is balanced, you are spawned into a match and given any of the 4 starting spawns, then depending on where you spawn you run to the nearest power weapon/power up on the map, the decision is practically out of your control and is decided for you, at random, by the game.

How is that acceptable when there is opportunity for a much deeper and interesting style of gameplay which actually involves some form of thinking/strategy? It also opens up a whole new kind of balancing system for asymmetrical maps, which are notorious for being unbalanced and favoring certain spawns, you can now place weapons in totally new positions without their spawn point being primarily dictated by "Which team can run to this position the fastest?" Imagine the amount of variety in the intial strategy involved in trying to take the snipe tower on Guardian before the sniper has spawned, what kind of weapons would the players opt to use, other than the starting weapon, and how would they use those weapons to their advantage? Much more interesting than "I spawned elbow so hold forwards towards snipe tower" or "I spawned blue so throw grenades at snipe tower in attempt to stop the other team getting a free sniper" 

I hope I'm making sense and what I'm trying to convey makes sense instead of sounding like I'm talking in circles or rambling.

Thoughts?

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Anyone checkout firefight on the latest release of SPV3?  

The firs time I played it, I chose flood as the enemy type in the rock canyon.  Unfortunately none of the flood spawned with guns and I couldn't find any guns or ammo on the map.  So when I ran out of ammo, that was it.  No more bullets.  I was going to have to melee the rest of the flood jiggely puffs.  No thanks.  

The next time I chose Covenant on the Maw level.  It worked much better since the enemies all spawned with guns.  It was actually really fun and challenging.  

I wonder if Infinite will release with firefight.  I hope so.  They could do different zones of the Open World Campaign area or even larger Big Team Battle Maps.  When firefight is done right, it can be a really fun coop experience. 

 

Also, SPV3 is really easy to install now that it can piggy back off Steam MCC CE.  I highly suggest it to people who haven't tried it yet. 

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What do you think about a piece of equipment that can transform a portion of the map from its current reality to an alternate dimension, from light world to dark world, from real world to upside-down?  

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Just now, OG Nick said:

Terrible

The goal is to give the player the ability to modify a chunk of the map at will.  Do you think something flood-themed would be a better fit?  Release a cloud that covers all nearby surfaces in flood stuff, spreading and growing new objects, modifying paths, changing lightning et c?  

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

The goal is to give the player the ability to modify a chunk of the map at will.  Do you think something flood-themed would be a better fit?  Release a cloud that covers all nearby surfaces in flood stuff, spreading and growing new objects, modifying paths, changing lightning et c?  

Flood themed equipment you say?

 

How bout a a giant needle that master chief injects into himself that contains a food mutation that causes a flood carrier bubble to start inflating out of the Cheif's butt.  It has an inflation period and once it reaches maximum inflation, it burst and unleashes 10 infection form flood.  The explosion is used to vault master chief forwards at a 45 degree angle 30 yards.  

 

This equipment would be primarily used to evade combat and leave behind the infection flood as a nuisance for the people that were evaded.  It could also be used as an extreme movement mechanic for the user since the user gets vaulted forwards 30 yards into the air. 

 

vZTE67z.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

You spent time to make that...

it only took like 343 seconds.  I spent longer on Boyo's avatar back in the day

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What do you think about a weather event triggering map transformation?  It starts raining and all these alien vines start growing all over everything, blocking some paths, creating others.  

Or what was it, Riddick, where when all three stars eclipse at the same time, the underground creatures emerge?  Halo could use some scary fauna outside the flood.  Have a planet full of gizmos then it starts raining and they turn to gremlins.  

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

What do you think about a weather event triggering map transformation?  It starts raining and all these alien vines start growing all over everything, blocking some paths, creating others.  

Or what was it, Riddick, where when all three stars eclipse at the same time, the underground creatures emerge?  Halo could use some scary fauna outside the flood.  Have a planet full of gizmos then it starts raining and they turn to gremlins.  

Scary hexagons start emerging from the ground causing your eyes to bleed

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BTB can have all the crazy Battlefield 4 Levolution-type stuff you want, just not in 4v4 pls.

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36 minutes ago, xSociety said:

BTB can have all the crazy Battlefield 4 Levolution-type stuff you want, just not in 4v4 pls.

Zanzibar was in 4v4, wasn’t it?  

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Lighting strikes a tree branch which falls and creates a new path or something. Would work for stage based game modes like invasion. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Lighting strikes a tree branch which falls and creates a new path or something. Would work for stage based game modes like invasion. 

That could happen in any game though.  What’s something that could only happen in the Halo universe?  

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If there was a way for the player to move things, like a weapon that can pick up, carry, then drop an object, one map could have some big dormant creature that does some crazy shit after you feed him a few corpses.  Like some How to Train Your Dragon type shit.  This giant dragon changes the geography of the land itself when he rises from his subterranean slumber.  

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22 hours ago, Mow said:

I was watching SnakeBite play H5 a few weeks ago and someone asked what his teams starting strats were, he replied with, and I'm not exaggerating, "We don't really have starting strats."

I thought this was a weird thing for Snakebite to say, especially since he tweeted this a little while back and I've def heard all the pro teams discuss what they're doing off spawn before a game starts

I think what he might have meant is that they don't practice specific openings or anything and more construct them on the fly, which makes sense since the one thing you don't want to be in a pro game is predictable. So it's more about intuition and reacting well in the moment.

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On 2/28/2021 at 8:32 PM, Aphex Twin said:

My ideal BTB is 8v8 on small maps with no vehicles (think CE mayhem). 

I'm likely in the minority. 

I am supremely proud of that playlist, and I get so happy when I see people are enjoying it. Metal God Hand and I had a blast putting that together, and it’s still incredible to me that it’s real.

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4 hours ago, LoftiestTea33 said:

I thought this was a weird thing for Snakebite to say, especially since he tweeted this a little while back and I've def heard all the pro teams discuss what they're doing off spawn before a game starts

I think what he might have meant is that they don't practice specific openings or anything and more construct them on the fly, which makes sense since the one thing you don't want to be in a pro game is predictable. So it's more about intuition and reacting well in the moment.

That was actually quite sick, and I'm very much in favor of more of this kind of stuff, which I believe my suggestion would help to promote. You're probably right with your interpretation, or he may have just been avoiding giving away too much info about their strats so they can't be used against them like Bubu's was is that clip. Either way there's a ton of room for more depth in Halo with very minimal changes to the game, you don't need to add loads of entirely new mechanics and risk overly complicating the game like Halo 5 did in order to get deeper gameplay.

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56 minutes ago, Mow said:

That was actually quite sick, and I'm very much in favor of more of this kind of stuff, which I believe my suggestion would help to promote. You're probably right with your interpretation, or he may have just been avoiding giving away too much info about their strats so they can't be used against them like Bubu's was is that clip. Either way there's a ton of room for more depth in Halo with very minimal changes to the game, you don't need to add loads of entirely new mechanics and risk overly complicating the game like Halo 5 did in order to get deeper gameplay.

Ya its like my old squad on the pit everyone knows I'm going snipe but if I see nades I'm not just charging into them nor am I consistently going sword or lifting up every single time. Halo games start pretty fast so there's always some kind of information to update your opening with pretty quickly even if its as small as bumping a teammate a little too much so you're trying to jump and grab snipe to just get out of there instead of looking across to challenge or even walking across S2 to shoot a little instead of going directly to snipe. I'm sure they all have a tendency towards a general place but it would be crazy and probably a little dumb to have an in depth opening strat that lasts more than 5 seconds. That's the fun part about Halo though everything is ridiculously situational

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On 2/28/2021 at 5:32 PM, Aphex Twin said:

My ideal BTB is 8v8 on small maps with no vehicles (think CE mayhem). 

I'm likely in the minority. 

I would like the following options in mix tape for Infinite/MCC:

- "BTB" is 8v8 with no vehicles or light vehicle maps only (Mongeese, Ghosts and single Warthog maps). So using MCC as reference (not Halo 4) it would be maps like Last Resort (and Zanzibar), Burial Mounds, Boardwalk, Valhalla (banshees removed) and Longshore. But it would also have "smaller" maps like Isolation, Colossus etc. Very objective-friendly modes and far more infantry focused. The perfect mode for people like me that want to play Longshore 1 CTF and Burial Mounds CTF but not have to deal with dumb shit like Coagulation and Relic.

- "BTB Heavies" is all the large maps with normal vehicle set. Think of "normal" Halo 2/3 BTB, this is actually BTB Heavies to me.

- "Big Team Battlefield" is just BTB heavies as we know it now. Lots of heavy weapons and vehicles and exaggerated maps with lots of cover

- "BTB Mayhem" - 8v8 on standard maps with standard layouts. Why is 8v8 Pit not in matchmaking? It'd be fun as hell!

I'd love all these to be options.

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59 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I would like the following options in mix tape for Infinite/MCC:

- "BTB" is 8v8 with no vehicles or light vehicle maps only (Mongeese, Ghosts and single Warthog maps). So using MCC as reference (not Halo 4) it would be maps like Last Resort (and Zanzibar), Burial Mounds, Boardwalk, Valhalla (banshees removed) and Longshore. But it would also have "smaller" maps like Isolation, Colossus etc. Very objective-friendly modes and far more infantry focused. The perfect mode for people like me that want to play Longshore 1 CTF and Burial Mounds CTF but not have to deal with dumb shit like Coagulation and Relic.

- "BTB Heavies" is all the large maps with normal vehicle set. Think of "normal" Halo 2/3 BTB, this is actually BTB Heavies to me.

- "Big Team Battlefield" is just BTB heavies as we know it now. Lots of heavy weapons and vehicles and exaggerated maps with lots of cover

- "BTB Mayhem" - 8v8 on standard maps with standard layouts. Why is 8v8 Pit not in matchmaking? It'd be fun as hell!

I'd love all these to be options.

Rat's Nest and Standoff are peak BTB settings.

On Rat's Nest, vehicles are essentially worthless because the majority of combat takes place in the kitchens and mid, with the outskirts solely being used to reset control or take routes to Snipe/Rockets.  Occasionally you can get a Warthog flag/bomb run but generally speaking, if you can't control the kitchens, you can't control the map and you're going to lose.

Standoff, whenever the laser was not in play, was a map that was almost entirely about coordinated teamshot, team pushing, and infantry with stages of control (Your rocks, their rocks, their base), until you could force enough outside spawns/deaths to get a Warthog run solidified and initiate a spawn trap.

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1 hour ago, Snipe Three said:

Ya its like my old squad on the pit everyone knows I'm going snipe but if I see nades I'm not just charging into them nor am I consistently going sword or lifting up every single time. Halo games start pretty fast so there's always some kind of information to update your opening with pretty quickly even if its as small as bumping a teammate a little too much so you're trying to jump and grab snipe to just get out of there instead of looking across to challenge or even walking across S2 to shoot a little instead of going directly to snipe. I'm sure they all have a tendency towards a general place but it would be crazy and probably a little dumb to have an in depth opening strat that lasts more than 5 seconds. That's the fun part about Halo though everything is ridiculously situational

Maybe I'm doing a bad job of explaining what I'm suggesting, or maybe the idea just sucks, but what I'm advocating for isn't really to have a set strategy that you use every time at the start of a match, it's kind of the opposite really, where you have much more options available to you in how you go about obtaining power weapons at the initial spawn. Instead of there being an 'optimal' opening strat such as 1 player always running for sniper on Pit every single match, and atleast 1 for OS and another for rockets etc. you would be forced to use other weapons in the sandbox other than the starting weapon and power weapons to gain control over the map instead of simply being granted access to a free sniper for example because you spawned near to it. Obviously this would require a solid sandbox for those weapons to even be viable but that's a whole other can of worms.

Think of it like Chess, imagine if you only ever had the option to move 1 particular piece as your opening move in a match, all other pieces on the board are off limits, that would drastically decrease the amount of possible outcomes in a game of Chess, and make it comparatively 1 dimentional to what it actually is. That's the way I see the start of a match of Halo in its current form.

As you alluded to, having situational awareness and being able to adapt on the fly are important factors, if not more so than having a set strategy at times, having the sandbox be balanced in a way that makes those weapons a viable strategy to use in certain scenarios and a threat that you actively have to be aware of and able to counter is more interesting to me than simply having to worry about the rockets, OS, and sniper spawns. Who wants to go out of their way to grab some tier 2 weapon when a sniper spawns right there?

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

Maybe I'm doing a bad job of explaining what I'm suggesting, or maybe the idea just sucks, but what I'm advocating for isn't really to have a set strategy that you use every time at the start of a match, it's kind of the opposite really, where you have much more options available to you in how you go about obtaining power weapons at the initial spawn. Instead of there being an 'optimal' opening strat such as 1 player always running for sniper on Pit every single match, and atleast 1 for OS and another for rockets etc. you would be forced to use other weapons in the sandbox other than the starting weapon and power weapons to gain control over the map instead of simply being granted access to a free sniper for example because you spawned near to it. Obviously this would require a solid sandbox for those weapons to even be viable but that's a whole other can of worms.

Think of it like Chess, imagine if you only ever had the option to move 1 particular piece as your opening move in a match, all other pieces on the board are off limits, that would drastically decrease the amount of possible outcomes in a game of Chess, and make it comparatively 1 dimentional to what it actually is. That's the way I see the start of a match of Halo in its current form.

As you alluded to, having situational awareness and being able to adapt on the fly are important factors, if not more so than having a set strategy at times, having the sandbox be balanced in a way that makes those weapons a viable strategy to use in certain scenarios and a threat that you actively have to be aware of and able to counter is more interesting to me than simply having to worry about the rockets, OS, and sniper spawns. Who wants to go out of their way to grab some tier 2 weapon when a sniper spawns right there?

Oh yeah I like the idea of being able to pick who gets what initial spawn and I do think delayed spawns could be used more than they have been I was merely responding to what was going on with the clip and everything of SB

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