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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 hour ago, NAK said:

They are already fully committed. Feels like a classic case of something that they latched onto early on as an Idea and now they can't let it go. 

Eh it’s no big deal. It’s probably a pain in the ass to remove and change 

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Regarding playlists - this is more of a general theory than speculative of what Infinite will/should do, but the only playlists that should be launched with any new Halo game are FFA, team slayer, team objective, and BTB, all of which should be ranked.

Reason: if a customs browser is in the game at launch - and there is absolutely no valid reason to not have one - then social playlists are completely unnecessary. Give people the ability to set up their own servers, and the screeching about muh team snipers, muh action sack, muh (weapon) starts and whatever else can be a thing of the past. The only people who would still want a 'social slayer' playlist are the ones who just want to stat on randoms.

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16 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I think a lot of those problems with FFA can be mitigated by item placement and spawn cadence.

I think most FFA maps should be very lean on items in general. 1 powerup. If it’s an OS, spawn in the middle. If it’s anything else, spawn it to the side. Nothing should spawn until 30sec into the game.

If it’s a map that uses power weapons (which should be the exception), never spawn two weapons at once. Stagger each spawn so that something different spawns every minute. Use like a 1 powerup, 2 weapon system for these types of maps. Ammo should be pretty limited, especially on short range weapons. Don’t put short range weapons on maps like Cold Storage or Tyrant ffs.

Keep the 8sec respawn, for FFA only. It’s the only game mode it’s actually good for. Deaths are punished more, and you’re less likely to clean up your own kill. And people that slay before going for items actually have time to get away with it.

I have a great deal of respect for ranked FFA, but a lot of effort needs to go into removing cheese from the game.

 

I'm very much in favour of the idea of delayed spawns on power ups and power weapons at the start of a match for all gamemodes.

I had thought about this before because of scenarios like the mad dash for OS at the start of matches which seemed kind of silly to me and weren't really dictated by skill of any kind other than who got there the fastest, which is a rather arbitrary thing. 

Ideally there would be 3 tiers of weapons; 

Tier 1 is your utility weapon ammo, magnum, AR, BR, etc.

Tier 2 is your "semi-power weapon" e.g. bruteshot, mauler/shotgun, needler, plasma pistol/rifle, etc.

And finally Tier 3 is your all out power weapons/ups, sniper, rockets, sword, OS, camo, etc.

Tier 3 would never spawn at the start of the match and would either spawn 30 second to 1 minute into the match, this gives you time to strategize and decide how you and your team are going to set up for the first set of Tier 3 spawns, are you going to try and hold off at OS spawn with a shotgun? Or maybe you want to try and pick some players off with a plasma pistol at rocket spawn. You could even have it set up so that the same power weapon or power up doesn't spawn in the same place twice in a row, for example, you could have the brute shot spawn every minute or so at the rocket spawn location, and on the 3rd minute/spawn cycle the rocket launcher would then spawn in its place instead, or have camo spawn in the power up spawn however many times and then OS would spawn in place of the camo after X amount of minutes/spawn cycles. 

This sort of stops the use of power weapons you have just aquired being used to then get control over the next spawn of the same weapons thus snowballing the entire match, the fact that the entire match could potentially be decided off of the intial power weapon grabs at the start of the match is, in my opinion, 1 dimentional and boring.

I'd much rather see a set up and clear strategy for how a team goes about aquiring the power weapons, and I'm sure with this system there would be a wide range of viable strategies that teams could utilize at the start of, and throughout of a match instead of just "hold forwards towards power item then use said item to snowball." Having that amount of variety and potential when it comes to strategy in Halo is something that very much interest me, and besides, who said the power weapons have to spawn at the exact start of a match?

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On 2/25/2021 at 9:23 PM, Boyo said:

By building a modular sandbox with integrity and synergy around a solid set of base traits.  

Elaborate on how you would go about achieving this in a practical manner.

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5 hours ago, Mow said:

Elaborate on how you would go about achieving this in a practical manner.

 

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8 hours ago, Mow said:

 

I'm very much in favour of the idea of delayed spawns on power ups and power weapons at the start of a match for all gamemodes.

I had thought about this before because of scenarios like the mad dash for OS at the start of matches which seemed kind of silly to me and weren't really dictated by skill of any kind other than who got there the fastest, which is a rather arbitrary thing. 

 

One thing that would alleviate this, at least for competitive play outside of randomized matchmaking, is having starting spawn points correspond to your slot in lobby, so if you're player 4 every time, you know exactly which spawn point you're going to get in order to ensure you're the one spawning on the spawn closest to OS on Pit, rather than at the mercy of the game's randomizer where some games you may get the good spawn and others you may not.

 

This was an even bigger issue in BTB than it was any other gametype -- in Halo 3, teams playing on Standoff would have the 8th member (usually the laggiest) spawn on top of the base, next to a Mongoose.  It was eventually realized this was the fastest route to the laser, so that person's job was to grab the laser and pull it back to their side.  But it wasn't consistent who would get that spawn, it was just... random.  So even if you tried to divvy up specific jobs to people on your team, you had to have contingencies to account for "If x person gets the mongoose spawn" -- this wouldn't be the case if you could control who got the mongoose spawn.

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12 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

One thing that would alleviate this, at least for competitive play outside of randomized matchmaking, is having starting spawn points correspond to your slot in lobby, so if you're player 4 every time, you know exactly which spawn point you're going to get in order to ensure you're the one spawning on the spawn closest to OS on Pit, rather than at the mercy of the game's randomizer where some games you may get the good spawn and others you may not.

 

This was an even bigger issue in BTB than it was any other gametype -- in Halo 3, teams playing on Standoff would have the 8th member (usually the laggiest) spawn on top of the base, next to a Mongoose.  It was eventually realized this was the fastest route to the laser, so that person's job was to grab the laser and pull it back to their side.  But it wasn't consistent who would get that spawn, it was just... random.  So even if you tried to divvy up specific jobs to people on your team, you had to have contingencies to account for "If x person gets the mongoose spawn" -- this wouldn't be the case if you could control who got the mongoose spawn.

Hard disagree.  I shouldn’t have to pay attention in the PRE-game lobby to do good during the match.  Also, being able to spawn and quickly figure out what you should be doing is a skill that should not be removed.  

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37 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Hard disagree.  I shouldn’t have to pay attention in the PRE-game lobby to do good during the match.  Also, being able to spawn and quickly figure out what you should be doing is a skill that should not be removed.  

This would be specifically for customs and competitive play, I wouldn't dare try to implement anything like that for matchmaking.

And while I don't disagree being able to sort out what you should be doing is an important skill, the complaint is the random spawns interfering with pre-match planning (which again, is something for competitive play, not random matchmaking).  A high stakes match opening shouldn't be interfered with because you spawned on the spawn furthest from your goal rather than the one closest.  A team that wants to give x player the Sniper shouldn't have to change their plan because the player spawned on rocket side.

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10 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

A team that wants to give x player the Sniper shouldn't have to change their plan because the player spawned on rocket side.

Yes, they absolutely should have to change their plan and adapt on the fly.  A team where all players can fulfill all roles is a better team than one where each player can only fulfill one role.  Randomly assigning initial spawns rewards teams that have players that can fulfill all roles.  

On a symmetric map, each teams’s initial spawns should be equal and opposite though, not where one team gets a shitty side spawn and the other doesn’t.  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Yes, they absolutely should have to.  A team where all players can fulfill all roles is a better team than one where each player can only fulfill one role.  Randomly assigning initial spawns rewards teams that have players that can fulfill all roles.  

On a symmetric map, each teams’s initial spawns should be equal and opposite though, not where one team gets a shitty side spawn and the other doesn’t.  

There's never going to be a team where all 4 players are of the same level with all aspects of the game.  The best team is one that knows its individual strengths / weaknesses and knows how to plan and play around them.  Every player should have a high degree of versatility, but not enabling teams to plan around who's the best among them at certain tasks reduces skill expression in other ways, such as if the players attempt a task based off where they spawned, then each player has a quarter of the experience with that opening.  They'll each individually have less knowledge of the nuance and scenarios that can play out from going that way.

 

The second line is irrelevant and not at all what I'm discussing, only talking about, for instance, among your 4 teammates, which of you spawns closer to Sniper side vs closer to Rocket side on Coliseum, or closer to OS/Training vs Long Hall on The Pit.

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I think it’s a useful, novel feature and that teams would love it because it would allow them to hide their weaknesses better.  I just don’t think they should be afforded the opportunity to hide their weaknesses at all.  

Sure, I could get on board with it though.  It’s essentially a quality of life improvement.  I like the idea.  

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18 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

This would be specifically for customs and competitive play, I wouldn't dare try to implement anything like that for matchmaking.

And while I don't disagree being able to sort out what you should be doing is an important skill, the complaint is the random spawns interfering with pre-match planning (which again, is something for competitive play, not random matchmaking).  A high stakes match opening shouldn't be interfered with because you spawned on the spawn furthest from your goal rather than the one closest.  A team that wants to give x player the Sniper shouldn't have to change their plan because the player spawned on rocket side.

They don't HAVE too. Also there's no reason that any given person on a competitive Halo team can't do decently well with the sniper. There's no real "sniper" role in Halo, there's barely "roles" to begin with

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You could take it a step further for greater depth I think.  In the pregame lobby, inform the teams which one of the three available spawn channels they will be spawning on then allow them to organize themselves based on the best player setup for that specific spawn scenario (say that five times fast).  

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14 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

there's barely "roles" to begin with

How would you feel if Invasion 2.0 was the premier big team mode, pitting 9 players of one species against 9 of another, where 3 players from each team are given more powerful weapons and abilities because they are officers?  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

How would you feel if Invasion 2.0 was the premier big team mode, pitting 9 players of one species against 9 of another, where 3 players from each team are given more powerful weapons and abilities because they are officers?  

Terrible

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Just now, OG Nick said:

Terrible

I thought a three tiered approach to player power off spawn could lead to interesting gameplay.  Like adding a pinch of spice to a recipe, some abilities can enhance gameplay but only when they are used extremely sparingly.  One way of making sure an ability is used extremely sparingly is to only give it to 1 out of the 18 players in the match.  

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On 2/25/2021 at 9:33 PM, Mr Grim said:

Probably a compass.

I think that is the equipment slot and that icon is for the rumored equipment that lets you see through walls.  

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13 minutes ago, RatherSilentMr said:

I think that is the equipment slot and that icon is for the rumored equipment that lets you see through walls.  

The left one is labeled “G” and the right one “Q” signifying grenades and equipment I believe.  Masters of minimalism, they are.  

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On 2/27/2021 at 2:24 AM, Snipe Three said:

I mean Halo isn't really focused on ranked gameplay. I think a lot of the fun of Halo really came from campaign and fun/social modes. Zombies, tower of power, swat etc in H2 onto fat kid and the like in H3. ...

I think holding up the ranked playlist as the definitive way of playing Halo has never really worked and never will with how diverse and fractured the community really is....

I agree with you. I am saying why make two games out of one? 

Having two different games in one, according to 343, breaks "immersion" (like, ya, ah, well, ok).

Having rank play much different deserves its own title. Call it Halo MP.

 

On 2/27/2021 at 8:04 AM, Aphex Twin said:

Why have any of what? Advanced movement? I would be thrilled if 'all that' wasnt in matchmaking, let alone in the game at all.

Yes, I agree.

(Sorry for the confusing grammar.)

 

 

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2 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

I agree with you. I am saying why make two games out of one? 

Having two different games in one, according to 343, breaks "immersion" (like, ya, ah, well, ok).

Having rank play much different deserves its own title. Call it Halo MP.

 

Yes, I agree.

(Sorry for the confusing grammar.)

 

 

If someone thinks campaign and multiplayer being different as far as upgrades/weapons/etc has anything to do with immersion or that that would ever matter anyways then they're off a bean ngl

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My ideal BTB is 8v8 on small maps with no vehicles (think CE mayhem). 

I'm likely in the minority. 

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On 2/27/2021 at 4:59 AM, RatherSilentMr said:

Was looking at some of the photos up close. Some things I missed the first time. 

qPRjVph.jpg

Just hex pillars holding up some shit.

On 2/27/2021 at 8:53 PM, hvs500 said:

It's baffling to see 343 keep the hexagonal pillars. Infinite is going to be an eyesore, and I don't like it.

Here's an idea for 343- Replace the pillars with the glowie walls on isolation.

There are so many things they could do. I would have thought being N E X T G E N they would have something like Portal 2 where you can see the machinery holding the facade together. Would be sick.

tumblr_mhm5fdZ1La1r7z381o2_1280.png

Also we saw this in the end of Halo 3! The Halo 3 warthog run is The Silent Cartographer. A bunch of machinery holding the facade up. They literally have a Halo ring under construction as reference. 

kTWxI56TNHDXTI4T21f0aZD1bcJzh9rSbzz3iJar4u0.jpg?auto=webp&s=8ed816ff8bbe2581c33428e952f8203a79960ea4

Or even something like Cybertron in The Last Knight which also uses hexes, but at least it looks good.

jeremy-hollingsworth-comp-1-0-02-47-09.jpg?1529387221

But no, instead we have fisher-price my first blender .obj

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4 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

My ideal BTB is 8v8 on small maps with no vehicles (think CE mayhem). 

I'm likely in the minority. 

My ideal competitive Halo is 8v8 on medium-to-large maps with the entirety of the Halo sandbox at play (across the maps, not on each map)

I'm definitely not in the majority here...but I'm content with 4v4 so long as it is supported properly.

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I'm sure the art was driven by a need for performance as much as they had a theme in mind when they chose those pillars. I'd probably have liked a little more variety if not more actual detail but they did need something to mass produce that didn't crush the performance given the size of the play space. That being said they keep mentioning biomes they used for reference in the starting area because it was familiar. I wouldn't be too surprised if you get significantly more visual variety when they stop showing us the the PNW theme 

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40 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Just hex pillars holding up some shit.

There are so many things they could do. I would have thought being N E X T G E N they would have something like Portal 2 where you can see the machinery holding the facade together. Would be sick.

 

Also we saw this in the end of Halo 3! The Halo 3 warthog run is The Silent Cartographer. A bunch of machinery holding the facade up. They literally have a Halo ring under construction as reference. 

kTWxI56TNHDXTI4T21f0aZD1bcJzh9rSbzz3iJar4u0.jpg?auto=webp&s=8ed816ff8bbe2581c33428e952f8203a79960ea4

Or even something like Cybertron in The Last Knight which also uses hexes, but at least it looks good.

But no, instead we have fisher-price my first blender .obj

Of all the random shit I knew of Halo, this picture was not one of them. I think that's so cool. 

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