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Halo Infinite Discussion

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On 2/22/2021 at 1:08 PM, Boyo said:

Encouraging players to think about their cover in both horizontal and vertical terms because their enemy has been empowered by a weapon that can deliver both frontal and downward strikes.  That’s not adding depth?  

No, that's removing depth. A dedicated lightning firing weapon would allow for more in depth weapon combinations. I don't see the point of limiting it to an alt fire on a sniper type weapon.

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1 hour ago, hvs500 said:

90% of your ideas are gimicks. Maybe if you cared to elaborate how they'd affect the design of the game, you'd spark some meaningful discussion. 

How do you define gimmick?  What are some examples of gimmicks in Halo?  What are some examples of non-gimmicks in Halo?  
 

Is the inclusion of the Energy Sword as a useable weapon a gimmick?  
 

Is vehicle boarding a gimmick?  
 

Quote

No, that's removing depth. A dedicated lightning firing weapon would allow for more in depth weapon combinations. I don't see the point of limiting it to an alt fire on a sniper type weapon.

 
Why is the EMP bolt limited to the alt-fire of a Plasma Pistol?  

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

How do you define gimmick? 

Dictionary
English
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
gimmick
/ˈɡɪmɪk/
 
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade.
    "it is not so much a programme to improve services as a gimmick to gain votes"
     
    Similar:
    publicity device
     
    stunt
     
     
    contrivance
     
     
    eye-catching novelty
     
    scheme
     
     
    trick
     
     
    dodge
     
     
    ploy
     
     
    stratagem
     
     
    loss-leader
     
     
    shtick
     
     
     
     
     
  2. 2.
    PHILIPPINES
    a night out with friends.
    "I had just come from a gimmick that lasted until the early hours of the following day"
     
verb
US
 
  1. alter or augment with an extra device or feature.
    "it was using software that had been specially gimmicked to allow for easier surveillance"
1 hour ago, Boyo said:

 What are some examples of gimmicks in Halo? 

Ground pound. Mantis.

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

  What are some examples of non-gimmicks in Halo?  
 

 

Depending on your interpretation of the word, a case can be made for everything being a gimmick.  

My definition of a gimmick in a video game is as follows-

Something that's there for the sake of being there, without adding anything meaningful to the gameplay.

So if we go by this arbitrary definition, the halo 1 pistol is not a gimmick. It is core to the balance of the game.

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

 

Is the inclusion of the energy sword as a usable weapon a gimmick?
 

 
 

Depends on the energy sword. I'd say that halo 2's sword offered a unique traversal method, which added some negligible amounts of depth to the game.  Ehhh not really a gimmick. However, 3's sword on the other hand was a gimmick. It was a very redundant weapon that didn't really add much to the game besides you know a rad ass sword. Gimmick. 

1 hour ago, Boyo said:


 

Is vehicle boarding a gimmick?  
 

No. It significantly improves vehicle combat by adding an effective, yet risky form of counterplay. 

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

 
Why is the EMP bolt limited to the alt-fire of a Plasma Pistol?  

Because bungie forgot something while creating halo 2

Oh I know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

How do you define gimmick?  What are some examples of gimmicks in Halo? 

Sprint, clamber, slide, thrust, ground pound, ADS, armor abilities/augments, equipment, grappleshot, just-because weapons.

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8 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

armor abilities/augments, equipment

So, only run, jump, crouch, fire weapon, throw grenade, melee?  There is no item or ability that could be activated by a dedicated button that would fit Halo gameplay?  

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11 minutes ago, Boyo said:

So, only run, jump, crouch, fire weapon, throw grenade, melee?  There is no item or ability that could be activated by a dedicated button that would fit Halo gameplay?  

Doubleshot, quick reload, alt fires could all fit halo's gameplay.

Items/abilities that slow down the game like sprint, shield regen, hardlight shield, crosshair bloom, armor lock, orissa's shield wall, etc... have no place in a shooter with unlimited respawns and TTKs at 1+ sec.

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@Aphex Twin Couldn’t equipment be treated like a weapon-agnostic alt-fire?  

The Missile Pod, a shoulder-mounted mini-turret, is semi automatically fired with the B button.  

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6 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@Aphex Twin Couldn’t equipment be treated like a weapon-agnostic alt-fire?  

The Missile Pod, a shoulder-mounted mini-turret, is semi automatically fired with the B button.  

That sounds more like a power item and less like equipment. 

Why do we need to have equipment/armor abilities/augments at all? The franchise is 0 for 3 on implementing these. 

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Just now, Aphex Twin said:

That sounds more like a power item and less like equipment. 

Why do we need to have equipment/armor abilities/augments at all?  

Is there some rule that prohibits equipment from also being a power item?  

We don’t need them.  But I believe that, properly designed and implemented, an equipment class of items could enhance gameplay (primarily higher player count, vehicular gameplay but Halo gameplay nonetheless).  

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11 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Most button combos are stupid and don't improve the game at all.

Doubleshot and BLB certainly improved the game. 

BxR and BxB were pretty dumb in that there was no risk/reward, and youd actually get punished for firing the first shot in a gunfight since BxR required a full clip.

I guess one could argue that H2's CQC was so shallow that it needed combos, even if there was no risk/reward tied to them. 

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Just now, Boyo said:

But I believe that, properly designed and implemented, an equipment class of items could enhance gameplay

I dont believe 343 or Bungie could properly design equipment/armor abilities/augments. Every attempt has been a failure. 

Spawning players with abilities that speed up gunfights (doubleshot, quick reload) is a much better approach. 

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Just now, Aphex Twin said:

Down a few shots? Evade away to safety! 

The synergy between the player and the map, the ability to quickly flank and make trick jumps, outweighs the negative.  You think Halo should throw away an Evade-like pick-up, and the cool map that could come with it, just because it helps the one player who has it escape more easily?  

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13 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You think Halo should throw away an Evade-like pick-up, and the cool map that could come with it, just because it helps the one player who has it escape more easily?  

YES, especially in a halo game with killtimes as long as Reach's. If players enjoyed feeling powerless in a shooter, MLG would have had no issues selling team passes when they were running Reach tournaments. 

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We’re not talking about Reach though.  We’re talking about a hypothetical good Halo.  Could an Evade-like pick-up work in a Halo game that got the other stuff right ie quick killing utility, crisp strafe, static timers, et c.  

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Just now, Boyo said:

We’re not talking about Reach though.  We’re talking about a hypothetical good Halo.  Could an Evade-like pick-up work in a Halo game that got the other stuff right ie quick killing utility, crisp strafe, static timers, et c.  

Yes, the only way advanced movement can work in a shooter with unlimited respawns is if the killtimes are as fast as CoD. 

I'd prefer a Halo game with .5 sec killtimes and no advanced movement, but Halo with CoD-level killtimes is much better than anything we've had in the last decade.

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What do unlimited respawns have to do with advanced movement pick-ups on static timers?  

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16 minutes ago, Boyo said:

What do unlimited respawns have to do with advanced movement pick-ups on static timers?  

Prolonging gunfights only works well in shooters with limited/no respawns. Advanced movement and long killtimes are fine in games like these. 

Prolonging gunfights in shooters with unlimited respawns is bad. In games like these, the only way to keep advanced movement in check is with TTKs fast enough to prevent players from sprinting/evading/thrusting/etc... from death.

Why are advanced movement pickups better than powerup/power weapon pickups? 

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When you kill a player with an advanced movement pick-up, it goes away so it is functioning the same as a one-life gamemode with advanced movement.  
 

Why are advanced movement pickups better than powerup/power weapon pickups? 


Movement and Attack are the two core-most aspects of Halo gameplay.  Pick-ups that enhance one and not the other doesn’t seem right.  

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Pick-ups that enhance one and not the other doesn’t seem right.  

Are you able to come up with a better reason?

Implementing mechanics in Halo that have killed the franchise's population, like advanced movement, because it "seems" right, is the same logic 343 used to add ADS, clamber, etc... to their games (all which suffer from low population). 

Sorry, you're making no progress here. 

Also, your hypothetical advanced movement pickup respawns. And players have unlimited respawns. It therefore can not function the same as a 1-life gametype. 

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14 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Are you able to come up with a better reason?

More powerful attacks allow the player to kill enemies faster, more efficiently, or in new ways.  

More powerful movement abilities allow the player to get the drop on his enemies by moving faster, more efficiently, or in new ways.  

Giving players new skills to learn and master is good.  Giving players new ways of gaining an advantage over their opponents is good.  
 

14 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Also, your hypothetical advanced movement pickup respawns. And players have unlimited respawns. It therefore can not function the same as a 1-life gametype. 

You did say “limited/no respawns” which advanced movement pick-ups on static timers fit into.  There will be a few per game.  

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10 minutes ago, Boyo said:

More powerful movement abilities allow the player to get the drop on his enemies by moving faster, more efficiently, or in new ways.   

They also give players the ability to escape from deserved death and correct bad positioning mistakes where they would otherwise be punished. 

We will never agree on this. I'd be more interested in advanced movement abilities that deplete your shield (1 evade/thrust = half shield, 1.5 seconds of sprint = half shield, 1 clamber = half shield) while spawning players with .5 sec TTK utility weapons. 

Otherwise, we dont need pickups that keep players alive when TTKs are already above 1 sec.

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