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@znot  CE ladders are essentially clamber but with the authority left to the map instead of the player (and no weapon-lowering animations).  Are there any other mechanics that are better left to the map than the player?  For example, instead of giving everyone the ability to fly, a few man cannons are placed outside each base instead.  

Are there any mechanics that could be modified, or new elements introduced, that would deepen the relationship between the player and the map?

 

Light Blade (melee enhancing pick-up) 

  • increases melee damage from 2-shot-beatdowns to 1-shot-beatdowns (with a 4sk Magnum or BR) 
  • successful melee strikes instantly jumpstart the user’s shield recharge 
  • melee an energy beam to begin charging an overshield (50% damage resistance while charging) 

After securing this pick-up, the user can find a specific map object and strike it to begin charging an overshield.  This allows enemies to predict where the Light Blade user is heading and kill him while his damage resistance is low.  

 

Energy Beam (map object) 

Picture a wall with a cuboid cut out of it, say 2 feet wide by 2 feet deep by 4 feet feet tall, beginning at waist height so a Spartan could reach his hand inside.  At the top and bottom of this cubby are two large nozzles with an exposed energy beam running between them.  

To melee the beam, the player must face the wall and to charge an overshield, the player must keep facing the wall for a number of seconds.  Risk a lethal nade being dropped at your feet for the reward of an overshield.  

To prevent abuse, the blue beam turns red after use.  Meleeing a red energy beam damages the player.  Over time the beam cools back down to blue. 

 

Where a symmetric map typically benefits more from a centrally located OS pick up, an asymmetric map could use Light Blade’s OS charge time as a balancing factor for one team’s initial spawn.  

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Controversially I don't mind clamber. I don't really care that it's in the game. Prefer it gone but there are much much bigger fish to fry.

Im In the same boat that I don’t care clamber is in the game, and though I’d prefer it gone too because of the times some fucker in h5 clambered up something to juke me, I don’t exactly hate it. But with that said it’s that juking that really nails everything. 

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On 2/21/2021 at 9:01 AM, Boyo said:

Could I take a peek at your sandbox that was so easy to create and basically made itself since you understand the why?  Or are you going to fall back on that you don’t work on Halo so it’s not your job after producing a series of videos about it?  

 

On 2/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, Boyo said:

You believe that the actual items and mechanics in the game are less important than the ideals that guide their design?  

 

On 2/21/2021 at 11:30 AM, Boyo said:

I know.  It’s just annoying to listen to these kids pontificate on Halo design by spouting idioms like “low skill floor, high skill ceiling” when they have no idea how to get there design-wise.  

 

On 2/21/2021 at 12:07 PM, Boyo said:

You say “Trust me” but I’m skeptical.  Is that wrong?  What would make me trust you more is providing examples of how your theories translate into a better game in the real world.  You can’t share one mechanic or weapon design that illustrates one of the vague points you rambled on about for nearly an hour?  

 

On 2/21/2021 at 1:12 PM, Boyo said:

A new idea would show me you are capable of more than repeating talking points that any forum kid could spit out.  

 

On 2/21/2021 at 4:32 PM, Boyo said:

I would say that wanting people to take your theories as gospel while refusing to provide any real world examples is the entitled behavior (“Trust me”).  

You seem to enjoy denigrating my ideas.  I wish you would post some of your own so that I may have the opportunity to do the same to you.  

Boyo you begged Westin for examples because you thought the stuff he said was 'the easy stuff' and then you continue to throw a mountain of terrible ideas. You throw out literally hundreds of random ideas and maybe 1% of them are good.  If you actually understood a fraction of Westin said you'd realize it's not even important to hammer out the specifics when you actually understand this stuff because you can separate the good from the bad.  I've known Westin for ~6 years and he's been on my project on my game with me for the last 3 years.  The amount of times we came up with a general idea and went "Yeah we can go about this any number of ways, we don't have to hammer this out" because we both understand the same principles would be too many to count. Yes specifics are obviously important, but once you understand your core principles all that stuff is easy and just takes the smallest amount of creativity. I could probably sit here and list out 12 different ways to design the beam rifle in Halo that all would be improvements on what it currently does but none of that matters because you have no idea what makes something good or bad. 

 

Ideas are easy, they're free. Hell you throw out a thousand a day. And they mean literally nothing. And then someone actually makes a ~45 minute video trying to teach the foundations of design that you clearly have no idea about and you pester him for 2 pages asking him for specifics, saying that everything he stated was obvious and easy.  Even if he did give you specifics of weapon redesigns or mechanical changes to movement, you would have no idea why it's good.  If you did understand you wouldn't be unironically suggesting light blades that charge overshields, sandman vehicles that burrow underground, turning your spartan into monkey ball to roll through holes, or shoving your arm into the wall to charge an OS.  For the record - if you worked for me as a designer and actually unironically suggested any of these ideas in a meeting I would probably fire you on the spot because it's just painfully obvious to me where your level of understanding is at. Which like fine, whatever.  Not everyone is a game designer, not a big deal you don't have to be good at this stuff.  But then to be ^ THAT  ^ obnoxious when someone actually makes a video talking about the important stuff... this is why people don't talk about design here.  Like why bother man.

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39 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Good luck with your game.  

If you would actually like to talk about design, I'm at my desk until 6 and can chat, not many meetings today. Message me and I can give you my discord / xbl gt.  Probably better done over voice anyways. 

 

EDIT: Boyo I'm sorry if that came off rude.  I think you were being a little obnoxious with your responses and I got frustrated

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I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of refreshing this page and seeing Boyo talking about hover boots and teleportation guns.

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1 minute ago, Metaphysics said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of refreshing this page and seeing Boyo talking about hover boots and teleportation guns.

Forgive me for being the only one who doesn’t like the direction of modern Halo and actually wants to talk about different options for evolving it outside of sprint and aim down sights.  Do you like sprint and ads?  No?  Than what would you do instead?  I await your oh so clever response.  

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14 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Forgive me for being the only one who doesn’t like the direction of modern Halo and actually wants to talk about different options for evolving it outside of sprint and aim down sights.  Do you like sprint and ads?  No?  Than what would you do instead?  I await your oh so clever response.  

Halo doesn't need to evolve.  It needs to devolve and become simpler.  Like it was in the beginning. 

 

                                                  Halo 5    (Evolved with Spartan abilities and ADS)

                                         Halo 4   (cant remember.  Mentally blocked it from my mind)                             

                              Reach     (evolved with Sprint and Bloom)

                    Halo 3    (Evolved with equipment pickups)              \

          Halo 2   (Evolved with dual wielding, BR, sword)                 }     - Halo needs to dEvolve back to this region. 

 Halo : Combat Evolved                                                                /

 

 

Simplicity is best.  Keep it simple stupid

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22 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Do you like sprint and ads?  No?  Than what would you do instead?   

Spawn players with low TTK utility weapons, give players a crisp & responsive strafe, and put power items on 60 second timers. 

Also, static in-game timers, quick reload mechanic, momentum-based melee system with no lunge, doubleshot (or 'overdrive') mechanics, and palette-swaps for the casuals who want just-because weapons.

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What are Halo’s core ideals?  
 

Which mechanics promote and reward these ideals?  
 

How does the input device activate these functions?  

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6 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

quick reload mechanic...doubleshot (or 'overdrive') mechanics

Tell me more about these.  

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21 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Tell me more about these.  

Pretty sure we discussed before, but I'm thinking a gears of war style quick reload - you get a quick reload if you time it correctly, a long reload if you mess up. 

For a doubleshot mechanic, I'm thinking this would only apply to utility weapons, and you'd need to execute a button combo to pull it off. Could also function as an alt-fire. Players would need to wait for a cooldown after using doubleshot before being able to use the utility weapon again.

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

If you would actually like to talk about design, I'm at my desk until 6 and can chat, not many meetings today. Message me and I can give you my discord / xbl gt.  Probably better done over voice anyways. 

 

EDIT: Boyo I'm sorry if that came off rude.  I think you were being a little obnoxious with your responses and I got frustrated

I'm working on a game too. What kind of game are you making?

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50 minutes ago, vembress said:

I'm working on a game too. What kind of game are you making?

A top-down turned based racing game. 

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

A top-down turned based racing game. 

Sign me the fuck up

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10 hours ago, znot said:

Halo 3 already has clamber  /s

GiganticLeafyGoldeneye-size_restricted.g

 

According to Shyway this is a ghost clamber or some shit

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11 hours ago, Sitri said:

I'd say clamber is even more of a problem than sprint. How many routes on a map require sprint?

I would not make maps around clamber. I would have every jump be done with standard jump/crouch and reward those players by making clamber slower. 

Then again, were it my game it wouldn't have clamber. I don't like clamber, I just feel it's a lower priority on the list of sprintyboi Halo worries.

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3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

A top-down turned based racing game. 

I wanna make a top-down shooter that's a bit like Halo and this thread is teaching me a lot

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20 minutes ago, vembress said:

I wanna make a top-down shooter that's a bit like Halo and this thread is teaching me a lot

Door Kickers 2 is the best top down game I've played in years. That and Helldivers.

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16 hours ago, Boyo said:

Forgive me for being the only one who doesn’t like the direction of modern Halo and actually wants to talk about different options for evolving it outside of sprint and aim down sights.  Do you like sprint and ads?  No?  Than what would you do instead?  I await your oh so clever response.  

I think for any people the obvious answer is that they don't really want options to evolve a lot of it. They just want whatever dev keeps reinventing the wheel to get off of their back as the gamer and let them play the game they enjoyed rather than trying to nostalgia trick them into buying inferior products. That's not even really the designers fault as a lot of that is marketing but the typical guy picking up and buying H4 because he thought H3 was fun did it because, well, he enjoyed H3 not because he wanted orange lasers and no descope on some kind of failed lighting simulator with kill streaks. That stuff is so fucking old and that's just what they keep beating the Halo fan base down with.

Basically a lot of issues could be solved with a reversion rather than an evolution and that's what you'll hear a lot of because its obvious and easy. These are generally Halo players and not just random fps players that took issue with Reach, H4 or H5. They'll likely just want to run it back with an older game rather than experiment.

For me personally my straight up fix for sprint is its removal. Game doesn't need that shit nor does it need some enhanced mobility to fill the gap. As far as ads goes once again I would NEVER want it in the sense of a tighter spread when zoomed in or whatever. If it was just visually similar to ads in other games but you still got descoped etc I wouldn't care at that point. Functionally I want zoom to remain as it always was in Halo. I hate coming into the new game and seeing them try to redesign or reinvent something. I want a Halo game first and if they want to go beyond that and give me more cool options and toys to play with in forge that's cool but I in no way shape or form want that to be what the game is balanced around. Things like grapple already honestly look really stupid. Even the fun idea of shooting people when grappling across the map isn't even possible and instead you can't do anything from point a to point b from my understanding. I don't even see the point in the mechanic at that point. It isn't fun and it isn't necessary so why the fuck would it exist lmao. I can't wrap my head around working on a series that's 20 years old and thinking that what you need to do is make it a different game instead of just producing what people expected and previously paid a lot for especially in light of the decline in popularity 

To be completely fair though at the end of the day my mind is never 100% made up when it comes to anything really. Take the grapple example in Halo Infinite and I'll still give it a fair try and give honest feedback beyond my impression from videos. Things could potentially change with new information or experiences but from where we're at right now its hard to imagine a lot of these changes addressing the fact that people want a Halo game. It could still be a great and enjoyable game but that is not the same thing as really releasing something for the Halo fans that just want to finally play a new Halo again. Many times people have said X modern Halo would've made a great game just not a great Halo game and for me that's just false. I think every Halo after 3 has basically been bad to mediocre at best because they're stuck somewhere between trying to be a Halo game and trying to just not be a Halo game so you don't really get the best from either direction

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16 hours ago, Boyo said:

Forgive me for being the only one who doesn’t like the direction of modern Halo and actually wants to talk about different options for evolving it outside of sprint and aim down sights.  Do you like sprint and ads?  No?  Than what would you do instead?  I await your oh so clever response.  

90% of your ideas are gimicks. Maybe if you cared to elaborate how they'd affect the design of the game, you'd spark some meaningful discussion. 

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