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Halo Infinite Discussion

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32 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

"What info you make available should only be decided by what gameplay you want,"

 

The gameplay I want is fair, and has integrity. If something is given to you that you or your team wouldn't have naturally discerned, it loses integrity. Otherwise you're playing chess with Clippy sitting there telling you when you have pieces in danger. Like everything, it's rarely black and white, but instead a tuning thing of finding the right balance. I just think most games have long passed that midpoint. 

A common method of cheating in online chess is to have a computer tell you the ideal moves for the given situation.  

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Using blatant cheating methods to argue against assisting casuals at the game is being completely disingenuous.

One of the most difficult hurdles for teaching new players chess is understanding piece movement. When you touch a piece in an online game, it reveals and highlights where it is capable of moving, thus allowing a player to skip straight into a game. This is a far better example.

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I think this is all kind of irrelevant at the end of the day. The best players in the game generally have an idea of when weapon spawns will occur but 99.99% of the time if it really matters they have a 5th man talking to them about it rather than keeping time in their heads even better. The only people who actually tryhard weapon timings etc are casual competitive matchmaking players. The reality of Halo games kinda defeats the entire conversation but maybe for another game it would matter

In 4v4 Halo at a higher level timing weapons is a lot deeper than keeping track of time. They're discussing and setting up for certain things or trying to not die too early (or too late) for some time before weapons spawn and all of that is the real game. The guy letting them know its about that time is pretty inconsequential in terms of player skill by comparison. So really if you put up some timers on people's screens maybe that's honestly more fair to the normal guy online since at a high level someone else is helping to direct that traffic anyways more so than the players actually playing

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Since people are discussing weapon timing I'd like to call attention to how H5 had Static timers for power weapons and Dynamic timers for power-ups (at least last time I checked). I personally don't like this. Choose one or the other, I would personally hope they don't combine the two agin in Infinite but would be curious to see what you guys think on the matter. 

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It usually doesn't matter between dynamic/static but there are edge cases where you win the fight for say an OS or camo on Construct and your team actually just doesn't pick it up for awhile under the assumption the other team knows they lost contesting the power up and doesn't drop a second time and you really fuck up their timing/pace for the next rotation until they figure it out. Normally in mm something like that won't work at all because people just yolo drop for no apparent reason but in pro games its happened and its interesting to watch. That might be too map specific though because you could off set a hill rotation/rocket spawn/os from all lining up at roughly the same time and it might really change the way the map plays where that whole scenario isn't super common with other maps.

If I had to pick one or the other for everything I would pick static

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There's an extremely thin line between actively "helping poor players improve" and aspects of the game starting to play themselves. 

I'd rather have a tutorial mode. Major spawn areas are highlighted, power weapon drops are marked by an icon on the HUD (Not what Halo 5 did), jump-ups are highlighted, etc. Implement these settings in social play, but remove all of the player aids in ranked play. 

Cut all the useless shit out of the game. Instead of "Hold RT to shoot", put something actually informative in loading screens and pre/post-game lobbies. In MCC alone, something as simple as "Don't run the enemy flag if more than half the enemy team is alive!" would probably make a significant difference. Allowing casual players to clearly see where their opponents spawn on maps and how their spawns are influenced, would make a significant impact on the quality of games played. 

Train casual players to play the mental and knowledge aspects of the game, don't directly play it for them. 

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On 2/4/2021 at 10:34 PM, Reamis25 said:

But that’s what the weapon was intended to do! You might as well remove it. 

I wrote a long time ago about how to rework the Spartan Laser to better fit within the entirety of the Halo sandbox, rather than just being an anti-vehicle weapon -- and the key is to make its discharge a longer duration, where each tick does a massive amount of damage.

It serves a few purposes:

  1. With the introduction of Vehicle Health in Reach, it allows you to deal stage-based damage for each tick of damage you targeted the laser over the vehicle during the prolonged discharge.
  2. It ensures a vehicle isn't immediately melted just for you managing to line up a shot for a moment -- you have to stick with the vehicle's movement to deal full damage.  This serves to make the laser more effective against tanks, but doesn't outright allow it to shut down things like ghosts and banshees from being able to do anything...but it also means a Banshee's sideroll isn't going to prevent it from taking -any- damage at all.
  3. It serves to make the weapon a power weapon in game modes where there are no vehicles.  Instead of a massive delay for usually a kill at best (leaving you vulnerable for a lot of counter damage), it's a massive delay for a discharge that fires multiple times, with each tick (or two ticks) potentially scoring you a kill.  This turns it into a weapon that is anti-grouping, just like Rockets, but made for longer sightlines.  So in situations where you know people are going to be funneled, you can hold a relatively safe sightline and kill them as they come out.  In general, it just gives you more options.
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I’m down for a hitscan, instakill Plasma Launcher @TiberiusAudley.  

Would heavier vehicles have more levels of health then instead of larger health pools per fixed number of levels?  

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:09 PM, Shekkles said:

I have now changed two peoples views. I am going to let this go to my head and become a YouTube influencer who unironically tells people that money isn't everything mid-ad.

Make sure to add some funny faces and funny sounds here and there, and you never know they might actually believe you!

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8 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I think this is all kind of irrelevant at the end of the day. The best players in the game generally have an idea of when weapon spawns will occur but 99.99% of the time if it really matters they have a 5th man talking to them about it rather than keeping time in their heads even better. The only people who actually tryhard weapon timings etc are casual competitive matchmaking players. The reality of Halo games kinda defeats the entire conversation but maybe for another game it would matter

In 4v4 Halo at a higher level timing weapons is a lot deeper than keeping track of time. They're discussing and setting up for certain things or trying to not die too early (or too late) for some time before weapons spawn and all of that is the real game. The guy letting them know its about that time is pretty inconsequential in terms of player skill by comparison. So really if you put up some timers on people's screens maybe that's honestly more fair to the normal guy online since at a high level someone else is helping to direct that traffic anyways more so than the players actually playing

100% accurate. Having the game show timers for you is actually beneficial to ranked sweaties like me because players with less game knowledge are given the information that I already know, allowing them to focus on other things and meaning you might get slightly better team mates in matchmaking.

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7 hours ago, NAK said:

Since people are discussing weapon timing I'd like to call attention to how H5 had Static timers for power weapons and Dynamic timers for power-ups (at least last time I checked). I personally don't like this. Choose one or the other, I would personally hope they don't combine the two agin in Infinite but would be curious to see what you guys think on the matter. 

This was a pretty hot debate when we made the GoldPro mod. Personally I think everything should be static to always allow both teams to have an equal chance of getting powerups in a new cycle and to encourage players to fight for it as opposed to cheesing the invinciblity timer of OS because you're the only one who knows exactly when it's up.

The other side of the coin is that dynamic timers allow the team that gets the first round of powerups to have an advantage for the next cycle, which is another form of control and puts more emphasis on timing and controlling the map instead of yolo-ing around with your starting weapon.

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I think informational advantages where only one team knows the exact time the next power item is spawning is too much.

Both teams should have equal opportunity at earning power items for every spawn cycle. Static timers or bust. 

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8 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

I wrote a long time ago about how to rework the Spartan Laser to better fit within the entirety of the Halo sandbox, rather than just being an anti-vehicle weapon -- and the key is to make its discharge a longer duration, where each tick does a massive amount of damage.

It serves a few purposes:

  1. With the introduction of Vehicle Health in Reach, it allows you to deal stage-based damage for each tick of damage you targeted the laser over the vehicle during the prolonged discharge.
  2. It ensures a vehicle isn't immediately melted just for you managing to line up a shot for a moment -- you have to stick with the vehicle's movement to deal full damage.  This serves to make the laser more effective against tanks, but doesn't outright allow it to shut down things like ghosts and banshees from being able to do anything...but it also means a Banshee's sideroll isn't going to prevent it from taking -any- damage at all.
  3. It serves to make the weapon a power weapon in game modes where there are no vehicles.  Instead of a massive delay for usually a kill at best (leaving you vulnerable for a lot of counter damage), it's a massive delay for a discharge that fires multiple times, with each tick (or two ticks) potentially scoring you a kill.  This turns it into a weapon that is anti-grouping, just like Rockets, but made for longer sightlines.  So in situations where you know people are going to be funneled, you can hold a relatively safe sightline and kill them as they come out.  In general, it just gives you more options.

Have you posted about this before? I've had almost the exact same idea regarding the Splaser. 

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Man I really hope this months update won’t suck. 343s updates are always full of worthless info and only 10% of it is anything of quality. That last update literally told us nothing about the game. Man they probably won’t do flights until after June I bet. Sheesh asking to see gameplay really is a lot to these guys huh? 

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5 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Have you posted about this before? I've had almost the exact same idea regarding the Splaser. 

Multiple times across multiple forums...and I think I posted an Audley Enough blog about it, but I couldn't find it when I went to look last night.

 

6 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Have you all forgotten the lethality of the Sentinel Beam

Which one?  H2A's was fine, but a lot of the older beams were garbage.  Best iteration of that type of weapon was Reach, though, with its Focus Rifle.

 

...but imagine a halfway point between the Focus Rifle/Sentinel Beam and the Railgun.  That's what I would imagine for a properly balanced Spartan Laser that would enable it to shine whether it's in a Vehicular setting or not.  The laser as we've seen it so far is so fucking binary in purpose where you either kill a vehicle or you don't.

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Charge then Fire Variants 

Charge then fire a single projectile (charge, fire) 

Charge then fire a burst of projectiles (charge, fire, fire, fire, fire) 

Charge then fire then repeat (charge, fire, charge, fire...) 

What weapons should go with each charge mechanic?  

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31 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Charge then Fire Variants 

Charge then fire a single projectile (charge, fire) 

Charge then fire a burst of projectiles (charge, fire, fire, fire, fire) 

Charge then fire then repeat (charge, fire, charge, fire...) 

What weapons should go with each charge mechanic?  

Generally, I think Charge-then-Fire mechanics should be hitscans, not projectiles.  Because you're already giving away that you're firing (by sound or tracer) before you fire, so your opponent has time to react.

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I think the benifits of having static timers across the board outweighs some of the positives that dynamic powerups bring.

If I am playing CE I can not be communicating with anyone on my team and always know what is about to happen in terms of items spawning and I am able to set up for it. In H3 there is usually a 30 second window of Schrodinger's rockets where they may or may not spawn during that period (unless I picked them up last or saw it happen). 

From a competitive standpoint there is certainly more of an argument to be made, but in general I like the consistency of having it all on that static timer. CE's 1 or 2 minute timers help the flow in a way that is under-appreciated I think. It takes away the ambiguity and teams have a specific window to decide what play to make. 

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6 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

That made me feel very bittersweet

I'm constantly reminded how much 343 has changed. At least Infinite has some Halo sounds. Halo 4/5 didn't look, feel or sound like Halo and that played a much larger part in distancing it from the series that I first thought.

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On 2/5/2021 at 1:25 PM, The Tyco said:

Using blatant cheating methods to argue against assisting casuals at the game is being completely disingenuous.

One of the most difficult hurdles for teaching new players chess is understanding piece movement. When you touch a piece in an online game, it reveals and highlights where it is capable of moving, thus allowing a player to skip straight into a game. This is a far better example.

I mean, I guess it depends on what you consider cheating. Soldiers 76's ult with aimbot isn't "cheating" as it's intentional, but it might as well be the same exact effect. If someone cheated and added in grenade trajectory lines like in Titanfall that would show where your grenade would land so you could line it up, I consider cheating for the player - even though it's intentionally put in the game. I'm sure some dev who came up with that thought it was a great idea on how to teach new players the grenade arcs but all it does is allow players who aren't familiar with the game / skilled enough to interrupted the geometry land kills they wouldn't otherwise. There are just some features that are standard in a lot of games, akin to the grenade arc prediction, that I don't think should've ever been introduced and standardized  

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Halo needs streamers to play it to be popular right?  If Invasion 2.0 was pushed as the flagship gamemode, where each team consisted of 6 low ranks with basic weapons, 2 medium ranks with decent weapons, and 1 high rank with power weapons, 343 could give some streamers a unique badge that allows them to be the high rank every match, both to act as a competent team captain in matchmaking as well as give fans a chance to play with them.  

Design the game is such a way that allows streamers to have really interesting streams.  Is this method full of integrity?  No but when you’re where Halo is now, you have to lie, cheat, and steal to get back where you need to be.  

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