Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I feel like the only thing that Halo’s Shield+Health vitality system does at this point is nullify headshot bonuses prior to the final shot.  What advantages does Halo’s Health-Shield vitality system offer over a similar system with one large health-pool?

It changes how effective a weapon is depending on how much health the enemy has left. This adds options with variable viability depending on the context. Literally adding depth in other words. Much better than "aim for head because skill".

 

Also, shields don't nullify headshots, a headshot multiplier of 0 does. But it's no big loss.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

~0,9s > 0,6s > ~0,2s > 1,5s

Longer TTK lets you use other options like grenades and melee, and health is effectively a movement resource. So TTK needs to be long, but not so long you aren't powerful and people can easily escape. However, a faster Halo style game with CoD TTK would probably be really fun and I can't understand why it doesn't exist. The solution to the design problem that plagues all tactial shooters can be found in arena shooters. 

  • Like (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, hvs500 said:

The sandbox should never be sacrificed for a low ttk. Part of the reason why CE is such a strategic game is the weapons. Every one of them is distinct, with clear trade offs. Now imagine CE with only the pistols. Yes, it would take a lot of skill, but it would be dull as shit.

I'm not going to argue that CE TTKs aren't ideal for Halo, but I will argue that Halo with intakills is better than long TTKs. 

I'll also argue that killtimes, while not being the only factor, are nonethrless crucial for making players feel powerful in a shooter. Again, I think Halo's population relative to games like CoD and CS attests to this. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/30/2021 at 2:59 PM, potetr said:

~0,9s > 0,6s > ~0,2s > 1,5s

Longer TTK lets you use other options like grenades and melee, and health is effectively a movement resource. 

Shorter TTK doesn't lock you out of options such as grenades or melee, it only changes how you use them. 

In addition, it's not just minimum TTK we're concerned about. It's the delta between minimum TTK and average TTK. 

Let's say that we're dealing with a hypothetical utility weapon whose minimum TTK is 0.6 seconds, and whose delta is 0.2 seconds. If that were the case, I would agree with you. 

If we were dealing with a hypothetical utility weapon whose minimum TTK was 0.6 seconds and whose delta was 1.4 seconds or something in that range, then other sandbox elements would come to occupy the now-massive and actually significant gap. 

Additionally, the reason a Halo game like that doesn't really exist is because Halo's sandbox structure becomes obsolete when retrofitted into COD-styled minimum TTK and average TTK. 

A theoretical OHKO TTK utility would be fine, if  it were adequately difficult to land said OHKO and the average TTK were sufficient to leverage other tools in the sandbox. You'd get an enormous, pure mechanical-aim based skillgap if you did this. 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Some killtimes work better for different player counts. 3sk works fine for 2v2, but 4v4? Thats pushing it, even in the original halo ce.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

That's because there's never been a halo game better than CE. 

A modern take on a CE style game with fast TTKs would likely sustain a higher population than modern halo.

Doubtful and I guarantee you the vast majority of the population would quit due to the spawn system

like it or not seems the vast majority of what's left of the halo community wants halo reach 2 unfortunately, thats why infinite is just halo reach's greatest hits with halo 3 equipment, a CE sequel would never sell well unless halo had stayed like that the entire time in the first place

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Killmachine said:

Doubtful and I guarantee you the vast majority of the population would quit due to the spawn system

like it or not seems the vast majority of what's left of the halo community wants halo reach 2 unfortunately, thats why infinite is just halo reach's greatest hits with halo 3 equipment, a CE sequel would never sell well unless halo had stayed like that the entire time in the first place

No they want whatever sounded cool as described by 343 (or whoever is advertising officially)

They literally just parrot whatever they read in blogs or vidocs and assume whatever they're given is better than any alternative unless it comes from the official source. Most people who buy and play Halo don't have constructive or critical thoughts relating to the game. We just interact with the most passionate people online who are willing to even have a conversation about it and those people (the accepting fans anyways) are always housed on the official forums for whatever game we're talking about because of the above. We saw it happen on bungie.net and on waypoint. It happens on the official wow forums or the jagex forums for runescape etc. The truth is nobody has any idea what would sell or be successful with the masses because they don't communicate with anyone using anything but dollars and play time. We can safely say they're interested in Halo and we can also safely say they would rather play another game shortly after experiencing recent Halo titles. I'd say the evidence supports the Halo marketing being really good to the masses and the gameplay not really being memorable or worthwhile recently because they don't continue playing despite purchasing. Places like this website or waypoint or reddit are just echo chambers for certain types of opinions and as a whole do a very bad job of representing what gamers as a whole would want or find appealing for their game

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Halo 3 and Reach are the games you get when you ask random people what they remember about Halo, thats why Halo 3 on PC was a big deal to rekindle nostalgia, same with Reach coming to MCC

we are an echo chamber on this website but if you polled a bunch of random people you are more likely than not getting Halo 3 / Reach as people's favorite Halo game and that's exactly what they will pursue

Halo 3 basically is the meme game for people's nostalgia and talking about the "good ol days" which is why 343 is leaning hard into that too, thats where they think the market is and thats what they're gonna pursue

Share this post


Link to post

Because Halo Twatter is such a representative sample of what 'a bunch of random people' would answer if you asked them their favorite Halo game.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Toxic (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The thing is though, what do people miss about Reach? I doubt it's bloom, a hitscan starting weapon that takes >2s to kill someone, slow movement and the pathetic maps. Same goes for H3, i doubt anyone out there actually likes the BR spread. I think people liked:

  • The Armor Customization
  • Community features such as double XP, file share, theater
  • The progression system
  • Playing as an Elite (lul)
  • The stellar matchmaking Halo 3 offered
  • The art style
  • forge and customs

and not the core gameplay. I'd say to most people the core gameplay has never mattered. Seeing how many "I've been around since CE and I loved H4 and 5" people can be found on reddit and Waypoint only strengthens that belief.

No, a copy paste of CE wouldn't sell well, but it also wouldn't be fair to just re-release the game as is. Better movement without dumbass jump delay, a functioning spawn system outside of 2v2s, improved animations, all the improvements Halo 2 and onward made to objective gametypes, vehicle gameplay that isn't ass, telegraphing to the players in-game how momentum melees, quick camo and the different melee ranges function, teaching people how to time weapons in-game, etc etc. And dare I say it, I think a 4sk rifle at 0.9s would work just as well as the starting weapon, at least outside of 2s.

To look at it the other way around, what I would keep from CE is the more lethal and non-redundant sandbox, projectile weapons, faster timers, the focus on (actually good) asymmetrical maps and the resultant wider skill gap. None of these are incompatible with a new Halo game, although it is unlikely that 343 knows how to get there.

Another thought experiment: Would Reach or H3 have been less popular if their gameplay was closer (in philosophy, not in dated-ness) to CE, but everything else was left the same? I very much doubt it.

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Basu said:

The thing is though, what do people miss about Reach?

I miss how Reach drove my entire friends list at the time to Black Ops before the first DLC pack even came out.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/30/2021 at 4:21 AM, The Tyco said:

I once thought sprint couldn't get any dumber, then MW2019 came out with "double-sprint". Like, you're sprinting but harder. I actually fucking face palmed.

Well if you put it like that it sounds dumb but since CoD is handling so called "sprintout" and "super sprintout" times (the time it takes to bring up your gun after exiting sprint) rather well it's not nearly as terrible as sprint in Halo. I think the reason they went with this double sprint thingy is because they wanted normal sprint to be infinite because it always feels weird to get forced out of sprinting without having a stamina bar up on screen and CoD isn't the type of game that would have a stamina bar up.
So yeah "sprinting harder" makes it sound like a dumb and useless mechanic but it honestly works rather well and at the end of the day was implemented with Warzone in mind moreso than the actual multiplayer - and even with that mechanic moving across open areas is super risky if people are posted up in a power position so removing it wouldn't do the game any good while making regular sprint that fast would fuck up the CQC pacing...

On 1/30/2021 at 8:55 AM, Basu said:

Lmao I just remembered this. Such a dumbass mechanic.

Until you consider what it's trying to achieve (and ironically it's better at that than most mechanics Halo introduced in the last decade)

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Well if you put it like that it sounds dumb but since CoD is handling so called "sprintout" and "super sprintout" times (the time it takes to bring up your gun after exiting sprint) rather well it's not nearly as terrible as sprint in Halo. I think the reason they went with this double sprint thingy is because they wanted normal sprint to be infinite because it always feels weird to get forced out of sprinting without having a stamina bar up on screen and CoD isn't the type of game that would have a stamina bar up.
So yeah "sprinting harder" makes it sound like a dumb and useless mechanic but it honestly works rather well and at the end of the day was implemented with Warzone in mind moreso than the actual multiplayer - and even with that mechanic moving across open areas is super risky if people are posted up in a power position so removing it wouldn't do the game any good while making regular sprint that fast would fuck up the CQC pacing...

Until you consider what it's trying to achieve (and ironically it's better at that than most mechanics Halo introduced in the last decade)

No doubt sprint works much better in CoD than Halo and it seems they put some serious thought into it how sprintout times factors into gun balance, unlike 3v4 industries. But still, if they want infinite sprint just make it infinite, Battlefield has had it like that forever and it's not causing issues. Sprinting on top of sprint is just silly to me, maybe I'm just a CoD boomer that never moved on from CoD 4, but this seems way too complicated of a solution.

If it's too difficult to move around open parts of the map I would first look at how strong/effective the guns are at range and question why exactly these maps need huge stretches of no man's land (I get that it makes sense in Warzone, but this mechanic was introduced way before Warzone was a thing), before I would introduce yet another mechanic on top of everything as band-aid solution. It has to be a nightmare to create maps around three distinct player movement speeds, keep in mind these are the developers had already had trouble creating decent maps for two movement speeds.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with tac sprint not being needed for a multiplayer CoD at all and yeah Battlefield has done the same successfully. Even Warzone wouldn't need this faster type of sprinting that is limited use - I honestly think they want to avoid fast infinite sprint just because that would make close combat fights harder to learn for new players, esp people trying to track with controller. (I couldn't care less but CoD catering to noobs is very important for their "accessibility" because money).

And yeah it was in MW2019 before warzone was out but clearly MW2019 has a lot of shit in it where you can already tell it was done that way because they will make a BR, tac sprint might be one of the less obvious things compared to more recoil on full auto guns than the older CoD games.
The stuff you are saying about balancing between 3 distinct speeds doesn't really come into play tho because the weapon you got out determines the movement speeds, so you already sprint faster with a knife/pistol than an AR or LMG - the tac sprinting just extends this rather wide/dynamic movement speed range up by a little bit. It's a non issue with CoD since map control works differently to begin with and the lower TTKs make positioning even more important so it doesn't break by people moving around the map at varying speeds as much as it does in Halo.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Because Halo Twatter is such a representative sample of what 'a bunch of random people' would answer if you asked them their favorite Halo game.

It's more representative than this website and r/halo combined thats for sure lol

Nowadays its reach, the halo fanbase is made up of a bunch of people who's first halo was reach now while the people who were playing in the mid 2000's left, I know a lot of mine stopped playing when Reach came out, but its a new generation now, don't see how this is hard to get

Share this post


Link to post
37 minutes ago, Killmachine said:

It's more representative than this website and r/halo combined thats for sure lol

Nowadays its reach, the halo fanbase is made up of a bunch of people who's first halo was reach now while the people who were playing in the mid 2000's left, I know a lot of mine stopped playing when Reach came out, but its a new generation now, don't see how this is hard to get

What the hell are you talking about? So the shitloads of former fans who were overtly driven out by Reach and never came back are now exempt from your hypothetical 'darrrrrff let's go poll a bunch of random people' experiment?

And this is without even getting into the hilarity of thinking of the bot/shill/idiot farm known as Twitter as being indicative of anything at all, except maybe the need to build a giant tinfoil dome around San Francisco.

Share this post


Link to post

No existing Halo community on any social media accurately represents Halo's fanbase. Halo's fanbase dwindled to less than a tenth of it's original population between 2010-2015.

All that you see now are the lowest common denominator of the fanbase - people whose favorite game was Reach, or people who think H2A is what classic Halo multiplayer is, or people who think that H5 campaign was the reason so many panned the game. In a nutshell - social slayer and/or campaign kids who care about the dumbest shit imaginable. The people who unironically play as dinos. 

You can test this theory out on Reddit. Every time a post from that hemorrhoid of a subreddit hits the front page, you see a shit-ton of comments from former Halo players with extreme resentment towards the number company. Comments that would have gotten black hole'd on any non-frontpage post. 

I can assure you, though. The number people who'd play a modernized version of a HCE Clone are still higher than the number of people who'll play Halo 5. 

  • Like (+1) 6
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

What the hell are you talking about? So the shitloads of former fans who were overtly driven out by Reach and never came back are now exempt from your hypothetical 'darrrrrff let's go poll a bunch of random people' experiment?

And this is without even getting into the hilarity of thinking of the bot/shill/idiot farm known as Twitter as being indicative of anything at all, except maybe the need to build a giant tinfoil dome around San Francisco.

What the fuck is darf bro

 

If you don't think real ass people have this opinion why do you think Reach coming back to PC was celebrated enough to get a shit on of streamers to play the game, or when Halo 3 launched and became a big deal for the month or so it was relevant

What games do you think hold the population on MCC hint its not halo 1 or 2

idk what reality you live in but the truth is halo 3 and reach have become 'that game' when people have nostalgia for halo now, thats how time works, and its what people are ok with considering 343 has gone all in appealing to those games in specific


 

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Killmachine said:

like it or not seems the vast majority of what's left of the halo community wants halo reach 2 unfortunately

A Halo Reach/4/5 style halo game would appeal to the very small existing playerbase. 

A Halo game with faster killtimes would appeal to a much larger audience - people that dont play halo anymore because the game's mechanics make you feel weak. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

A Halo Reach/4/5 style halo game would appeal to the very small existing playerbase. 

A Halo game with faster killtimes would appeal to a much larger audience - people that dont play halo anymore because the game's mechanics make you feel weak. 

As long as Jalo is designed in a modular fashion, Arena can be good even if the rest of the game isn’t.  A game with AA and Equipment pick-ups, instead of sprint and thrust base abilities, can be whittled down to a tight arena experience.  

Regarding faster kill times, the inclusion of a “pro” utility weapon (with relatively low aim assist and relatively quick kill time) would be another big step in ensuring the survival and prosperity of the arena mode.  

Share this post


Link to post

I think at the end of the day its not even exactly the style of Halo that fails to hold the population. I'd really point to the workmanship and how disassociated some decisions are from people simply having fun. Halo in recent years has been and felt fairly low quality. If you go play MCC H3 then play H5 in 2021 you'll notice that Halo 5 runs like shit to put it nicely and it feels kind of cheap and almost laggy how the hitboxes are just so huge where in other Halo titles, especially the original trilogy, things feel cleaner and less cluttered. The occasional questionable looking registration where you know you missed is A LOT less obvious in older games despite it happening regularly and things like that really impact how the game feels to me. There are so many reasons the older games feel more smooth and that's just the tip of the iceberg but it all adds up and I think that even new and unfamiliar gamers will feel it when compared to playing Fortnite or one of many other games that simply feel better. I think they're just failing the gaming version of the eye test more than anything else. They need to do better because nobody is going to play Infinite and be satisfied if they just hopped off of another game like Destiny 2 or whatever and they can just feel a gulf between the games on a basic functional level even if they can't explain exactly what it is 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

343 has yet to figure out a viable method with which to launch and sustain a product. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

343 has yet to figure out a viable method with which to launch and sustain a product. 

I'd tell them to ask Bungie, but they've been on some fuckshit too.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.