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Halo Infinite Discussion

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3 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

"The player feels that they can stand alone and be effective without teammates"

"The basic traits, tools, and weapons must allow the player to be effective from the moment they spawn" 

 

These two quotes are contradicted by the following: 

 

"Players need to feel durable and strong when they have shields up"

I think they're referring to the campaign.

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On 1/28/2021 at 1:35 AM, Mr Grim said:

What I want to hear a sandbox designer say:

"I've always preferred a leaner approach to building a sandbox so as to ensure every weapon and vehicle matter in a distinct way"

 

They almost said that word for word, lol. They actually seemed to use quite a few buzzwords/phrases like that throughout the entire article without once demonstrating that they understand what they mean. 

 

20 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

343 copycatted Overwatch, then CSGO, then Halo Reach, and are now recently into the gameplay loop we know now.

Several months of different iterations of Multiplayer and Campaign, art design, level design, weapon sandbox, Utility Weapon starts, advanced movement vs classic, all that has been argued back and forth for the last three years. Eventually they came to what we know now, but didn't spend enough time fully developing the rest of the game.

It as if the entire company is incapable of conceiving of an original gameplay mechanic. 

Halo 4 was a bastardized version of CoD. H5 was a sad attempt of forcing "Advanced movement" into Halo. I then specifically remember reading people on this Forum joking about how they would copy Overwatch for the next game because all they do is chase the industry trends. It'd be funnier if it weren't so sad.

It also pains me knowing that classic movement could have been seriously considered at some point, but as long as it is only Sprint/Clamber now I can potentially live with it depending on how it is implemented. 

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8 hours ago, Hard Way said:

The rate of fire on the Sidekick is hella fast. Just bc it's 5-6 stk doesn't necessarily mean the main utility will be really slow. I'm expecting it to be in line with a perfect from the H5 BR, which is slightly above average when you take the entire franchise into account. My concern is more with the utility's ease than its power.

looks like the halo infinite pistol fires faster than the ce magnum, so a 1 second ttk isn't a wild estimation. 

 

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There's a difference between restating a good principle of sandbox design and actually understanding what it means. The number company doesn't do the latter. 

They think individual empowerment is 20 movement abilities and guns that are easy to use. They think "unique, varied low-redundancy sandbox" means Halo 5. 

Shelve any hopes of <1 second TTK LOL. The fastest we saw the pistol shooting during the reveal was with a 0.2 second period in between two successive shots. That's still not enough for >1, especially not with a 6SK. 

Given that the pistol didn't seem to have a scope, this is gonna be another BR-centric Halo. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

There's a difference between restating a good principle of sandbox design and actually understanding what it means. The number company doesn't do the latter. 

They think individual empowerment is 20 movement abilities and guns that are easy to use. They think "unique, varied low-redundancy sandbox" means Halo 5. 

Shelve any hopes of <1 second TTK LOL. The fastest we saw the pistol shooting during the reveal was with a 0.2 second period in between two successive shots. That's still not enough for >1, especially not with a 6SK. 

Given that the pistol didn't seem to have a scope, this is gonna be another BR-centric Halo. 

We haven't even seen the br shoot. Let's not jump to conclusions mate. 

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Are they seriously going to make Sprint worse then ever? How do they still not understand that escapability and long kill times do not mix? 

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1 hour ago, hvs500 said:

We haven't even seen the br shoot. Let's not jump to conclusions 

I dont think we need to see the BR shoot to know that killtimes will be above 1 sec. 343's design philosophy wont be any different from the last 2 games they released. 

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8 hours ago, Campbell said:

how would it work if sprint was available to players fresh off spawn until they were shot while using it? After that, it would be unusable again until the next respawn. It's just a thought I had but at face value it sounded like an improvement.

I think sprint fans would hate having a nerfed sprint, and I think anti-sprinters hate all forms of sprint regardless of how nerfed it is. 

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29 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

I think sprint fans would hate having a nerfed sprint, and I think anti-sprinters hate all forms of sprint regardless of how nerfed it is. 

I’ve always been in the boat of no sprint unless shields are full 

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Fire and Alt-fire — Armor Ability and Aerial Ability — Dual Purpose Pick-ups 

 

Alt-fire gives weapons more depth by allowing complimentary abilities to be joined into one entity but weapons are one only class of map pick-ups.  

Movement-enhancers are another class of map pick-ups.  Similar to how weapons have two abilities, fire and alt-fire, movement-enhancing pick-ups are also composed of two abilities, one Armor ability and one Aerial ability.  The former, activated by the A button, and the latter, activated by LB (jump) while the player is airborne.  

For consistency and memorability, these movement-enhancing pick-ups, consisting of one armor and one aerial ability, are found as fixed sets in matchmaking ie Thruster and Jump Jet are always together as the Human pick-up while Evade and Wall Kick are always together as the Elite pick-up.  

Unlike matchmaking, custom games allow mixing and matching of armor and aerial abilities.  For example, the Brute armor ability, Gravity Boots, could be paired with the Promethean aerial ability, Glider.  The former performs a high-jump while the latter sends the airborne player sailing forward, weapons ready, instantly creating an aerial threat where there was none before.  

 

Thruster and Jump Jet 

Evade and Wall Kick 

Gravity Boots and Gravity Gauntlet 

Sphere and Glider

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21 minutes ago, darkstar said:

We’ve been making “compromises” for years. Sprint is bad for Halo. Full stop. How much time and resources have been wasted on trying to balance a bad mechanic that has been shown time and time again to negatively impact gameplay and map design? If you have to continually rework and rebalance and reinvent an ability, it’s to time to accept it sucks and do away with it entirely. 
 

The fact we now have climbing, slide, and ADS as mainstay mechanics goes to show how far this franchise has slipped into mediocrity, and how little identity it has left. 

There’s something about acknowledging the fact something is there to stay so finding ways to make it better or not as bad isn’t awful. Sprint was dead awful in halo 4 and was better in h5 because of the no shield recharge and the fact if you shot someone as they started sprinting you’d knock them out of sprint. I don’t believe there’s permanent ADS in halo 6 although this is still atm unconfirmed. I agree 100% that sprint needs to go but 343 is too chickenshit to do so. This all could be solved if we had a fast TTK so escaping happens less. 

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4 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

This all could be solved if we had a fast TTK so escaping happens less. 

Sounds like TTK is pretty important.

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The thing that always gets me is that regardless of how well you balance sprint it immediately does not feel like I'm playing Halo when its included. You just instantly lose the fluid feeling of movement and the map feel that you would generally associate with the original Halo titles and instead start to toggle something on and off to move and navigate/fight in slightly wonky shaped rooms/maps. Its super detrimental imo from just a "feel" point of view for the game regardless of actual balancing

Every time they talk about making something feel like "Halo" things like the inclusion of sprint get the biggest eyeroll ever from me at best because it proves simply by inclusion that they are absolutely not interested in producing a Halo title. Its hard to take seriously unless they start to differentiate between "Halo" and "I'm producing more games for Microsoft because it prints money while fucking around Halo lol." Obviously its just marketing and trying to pull on nostalgia but it really does feel dishonest how they keep trying to ship their new fps and sell units by applying a Halo skin to it. I'd really appreciate an actual effort towards releasing a true Halo game/experience even if it were just a side game with a smaller budget.

Its a lot easier to appreciate the work of the MCC team because of things like what I just said above. Even if they fail or do something silly at least you can trust the intentions 

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12 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

The thing that always gets me is that regardless of how well you balance sprint it immediately does not feel like I'm playing Halo when its included

Honestly yeah I feel the same way. 

30 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Sounds like TTK is pretty important.

Never said it wasn’t, but you think if it doesn’t have a TTK less than a second it’s over end of story. In h5 a lot of escapability was due to thrust not a long TTK. Without thruster escaping be very difficult. In h6 we have a Nerfed sprint and no thrust spawn equals a possible win in this regard. And who knows maybe we will get a utility that’s 1 second perfect TTK 

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14 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

First of all hi, love your post and mindset. You seem intelligent. To answer your question;

 

1: what would this actually solve

2: that's some weird rule bending and complexity to keep sprint in the game

3: it's also eating an entire button on the remote

 

Compromise isn't necessarily a good thing. Bad mechanics are bad.

I'm 100% with you on this. Here's my problem, though:

"Player Goal: Players will feel that they are skilled Spartans; armored super-soldiers, not regular foot soldiers." - from Quinn and the sandbox team's "combat doctrine" in the Waypoint update from yesterday that folks were talking about.

I read this as "the players we care about like advanced movement because I M M E R S I O N". I simply cannot see a reality where this developer is willing to backtrack on something they have put so much energy into defending. My thought process was trying to align with the notion that we're going to get a compromise in the best-case scenario.

It's hard to say what it would solve. Theoretically, maybe you wouldn't need to stretch maps as much if sprint isn't going to be available all of the time for all players? It's still present in this iteration but being so easily denied perhaps gets Waypoint types more accustomed to playing without it and maybe makes it easier to transition to a competitive playlist where it's off by default? I hadn't seen any proposed nerfs to sprint where it's flat out removed by something and seemed worth suggesting.

As I mentioned before, I'm not the most well-versed in these things so this is mostly just throwing ideas at the wall to see if it sounds good. I'd much rather see sprint gone entirely, of course.

It's hard to imagine now that Microsoft would make the decision to move away from 343. This is supposed to a 10-year long endeavor. What an interesting amount of job security that provides, eh? :kappa:

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sprint should make your more vulnerable. I'll go lore nerds mode...

 

Sprinting takes extra power which would overload your suits power system making you a little more vulnerable to incoming fire. 4 shot kills now are 2.5/3 shots...

 

Cortana did it in Halo 4 with the ghost, she "channeled the energy from your shields to the ghosts boosters"

 

So why can't the same be done for sprint? channel the energy from our shields into our fat spartan feet to make us move faster AT THE COST of health/shield... Ive been saying this since h4. This means you ONLY use it when no one is around and you're less likely to use it to get out of a bad scenario. this LOCKS you into your situation like classic halo always had.

But still dislike having two different speeds as it messes up predictability. Having one consistent move speed is better for predictability and telegraphing movements..510bb638a4c3c4eef84fe08a687c0a5a.jpg

 

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TTK really is that damn important. I'm gonna toss out a nuclear take here:

Halo 5 would have legitimately been the second or third best Halo in the series, if the magnum were a projectile 3SK and had zero magnetism. OP autos wouldn't be as obnoxious, and even the movement shenanigans would be somewhat curtailed. 

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I'm down with sprint so long as it makes you run slower than the base speed.

I once thought sprint couldn't get any dumber, then MW2019 came out with "double-sprint". Like, you're sprinting but harder. I actually fucking face palmed.

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12 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

I dont think we need to see the BR shoot to know that killtimes will be above 1 sec. 343's design philosophy wont be any different from the last 2 games they released. 

The whole "combat doctrine" and having a low skill floor and high skill ceiling was different from 5 and 4s philosophy. I saw none of that in the infinite trailer, but they said they've tweaked the weapons, so maybe they get it. we'll see.

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