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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

People should have to time weapons, actually.

What's more skillful though, timing weapons or actually fighting for them and outsmarting your opponents to acquire them because they also know the item is coming up?

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20 minutes ago, Basu said:

What's more skillful though, timing weapons or actually fighting for them and outsmarting your opponents to acquire them because they also know the item is coming up?

timing weapons by a million miles

once you get high enough in ranked there are already scuffles based on weapon timings because the players approximate the information, the game shouldn't hold your hand and tell you where to be and when

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2 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

Why is bookkeeping a necessary skill in a video game?  The less brain cells you have to take up keeping track of extraneous things, the more you can focus on the game itself.

I am a fan of faster killtimes as well as faster power item spawns. A Halo:CE item spawning system is, imo, ideal and naturally encourages players to revolve around specific parts of the map at specific times, which greatly aided in adding dynamic play to Slayer. 

If weapons and powerups spawn consistently enough, and always at a fixed interval, isn't learning these roles a tool for the player to improve?

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45 minutes ago, Obnokshus said:

timing weapons by a million miles

once you get high enough in ranked there are already scuffles based on weapon timings because the players approximate the information, the game shouldn't hold your hand and tell you where to be and when

But if everyone knows it anyways what's the harm? It helps complete newcomers and doesn't hurt high-level players, who have a coach anyways. The only people this hurts is MM warriors who want a free advantage for getting the first powerup/item.

41 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

Why is bookkeeping a necessary skill in a video game?  The less brain cells you have to take up keeping track of extraneous things, the more you can focus on the game itself.

Riot was smart enough to realize this with League and neutral+buff timers.

 

Halo 2's system (weapon timer only starts once empty weapon was dropped) was the start of Bungie trying to create systems to make it -harder- for players who learned the game to get an advantage, because deep down, Bungie hated competitive players.  In Halo 3, they introduced an even MORE fucked mechanic, which, although MLG evaded it with drop spawning, we still saw in the case of dirtied timers: The timer for a weapon respawn didn't start until the person holding it either died or stopped moving for 3 seconds...it was a way to just sort of make a player 'guess' if the weapon was up or not in a lot of scenarios.

 

I don't particularly like the weapon pads of H5, but making the system accessible to all players and insuring there's no asymmetry of information with power weapons (which can itself be a cascading advantage) is much preferred over ambiguously hiding weapon timers from either 1) everyone (Bungie's preferred method) or 2) the team that didn't get it (which is the case of people needing to time weapons)

Exactly my thoughts.

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15 minutes ago, TiberiusAudley said:

Why is bookkeeping a necessary skill in a video game? 

It’s easy to get lost in the minutia of moment-to-moment gameplay; the reflexive, instinctual elements of play.  Timers represent the cerebral aspects of gameplay; keeping your head in the heat of the moment so to speak.  

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Just throw in a custom-games option to disable visual weapon/power-up timers so tournament settings don't need to include them and I think you satisfy all interests.

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56 minutes ago, Boyo said:

It’s easy to get lost in the minutia of moment-to-moment gameplay; the reflexive, instinctual elements of play.  Timers represent the cerebral aspects of gameplay; keeping your head in the heat of the moment so to speak.  

This goes out the window when even people who play ce aren’t actually timing weapons, they’re letting an app do the work for them. 

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2 hours ago, Basu said:

What's more skillful though, timing weapons or actually fighting for them and outsmarting your opponents to acquire them because they also know the item is coming up?

I mean, most items are already static.

Both require skill (and the latter moreso), but the latter shouldn't occur through hand-holding. 

To build off my previous analogy: Imagine if, while shooting a projectile weapon, there was a smart-reticle that automatically moved to where you should place your own reticle in order to score hits (like the Sabre section from that mission in Reach). Automatically, you'd distill aiming to require more mechanical skill and less thought being put into "where should I place my reticle?". At the same time, it'd be unnatural hand-holding. 

Besides, it's item timing: a skill that's already there in the precedent set by every Halo game (barring 4 and 5, though they barely even count).  If it were a more obscure and unintuitive mechanic like button combos or ghost-ledging, I'd be all for it.

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54 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

This goes out the window when even people who play ce aren’t actually timing weapons, they’re letting an app do the work for them. 

Exactly. This aspect of the game gets circumvented at every available opportunity. It adds so little and hinders the growth of new/intermediate players so much. People aren't even playing the real game until everyone is timing, and in most cases, that's a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Just let everyone play the real game up and down the skill ladder. It's not worth it.

"If it were a more obscure and unintuitive mechanic like button combos or ghost-ledging, I'd be all for it."

It doesn't get much more obscure or unintuitive than H2 and H3's weapon respawn system.

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All the pads need to do is delay the icon disappearing after pick up a few seconds or so. Problem solved.

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19 hours ago, Boyo said:

How about a little weapon icon next to the game clock that appears 30 seconds before the spawn of static power items?  The icon flashes on the 3, 2, 1 countdown then disappears.  When the notification is a part of the 2D HUD, it doesn’t add as much to the visual clutter.  

Yes! I've wanted this, because then you can include other not-quite-power weapons and power ups as well without excessive clutter. Also, you should be able to hold pause and see a map with info such as teammate locations and weapon spawns, like in Battlefield.

17 hours ago, Basu said:

The only people this hurts is MM warriors who want a free advantage for getting the first powerup/item.

As a MM warrior I don't even want that advantage. I want to fight over them, not have to memorize random shit that's piled on top of the gameplay loops.

17 hours ago, Boyo said:

It’s easy to get lost in the minutia of moment-to-moment gameplay; the reflexive, instinctual elements of play.  Timers represent the cerebral aspects of gameplay; keeping your head in the heat of the moment so to speak.  

Playing might indeed be mostly heuristics, but saying timing is "cerebral" is a stretch imo. It's a problem with a given solution. Timers represent the arbitrary ability tests that prevents you from getting lost in the actual gameplay - and they might even make the game less cerebral, as they occupy your mind instead of letting you take a step back from the usual pattern of a match. I'd rather free up minds to be better than test timing.

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12 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Both require skill (and the latter moreso), but the latter shouldn't occur through hand-holding. 

To build off my previous analogy: Imagine if, while shooting a projectile weapon, there was a smart-reticle that automatically moved to where you should place your own reticle in order to score hits (like the Sabre section from that mission in Reach). Automatically, you'd distill aiming to require more mechanical skill and less thought being put into "where should I place my reticle?". At the same time, it'd be unnatural hand-holding. 

There is no doubt timing is a skill, but you won't meet someone in real life who will be enthusiastic about a mechanic where you've got to be really aware of when 90 seconds has passed to compete. There's a 100% chance those who like it will write that its removal is "hand-holding" though.

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You know what game type needs to comeback is VIP. VIP has lots of potential for fun customs. Headhunter, regicide. So many game types stripped from halo that I hope return in infinite either at launch or in an update. 

team VIP slayer:2 teams, each team has unlimited lives, until their VIP is dead. VIP has overshield(2X). 3 rounds total best 2/3.  30 kills to win a round or kill their VIP and the rest of the team has limited lives(1). 
i think this be a neat niche mode.

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BTB 2.0 definitely will bring tons to halo. F2P game with a massive chaotic big mode will bring tons to the game. Man I wish M$ Would let halo infinite be on PlayStation so the player pool will be even bigger but have exclusive content for Xbox/ pc(pc is windows and that’s first party) like specific coatings and stuff. 

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On 1/12/2021 at 12:56 PM, Boyo said:

Yes, a robust, modular sandbox benefits both core modes and niche gametypes.  Like how Reach used Evade as an Elite ability in Invasion as well as a zombie ability in Infection.   
 

Are there any movement abilities that would enhance the platforming experience?  

Nah this is just assuming everything from the demo is still there, clamber, the slide thingy, grapple hook. ANd obviously your two feet (classic halo jump style)

 

 

Though I wasn't a fan of the constant platforming in DOOM eternal I did enjoy some of it, if it was paced properly, but that game was 90% platforming.

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2 hours ago, znot said:

Nah this is just assuming everything from the demo is still there, clamber, the slide thingy, grapple hook. ANd obviously your two feet (classic halo jump style)

 

 

Though I wasn't a fan of the constant platforming in DOOM eternal I did enjoy some of it, if it was paced properly, but that game was 90% platforming.

What’s platforming? 

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3 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

You know what game type needs to comeback is VIP. VIP has lots of potential for fun customs. Headhunter, regicide. So many game types stripped from halo that I hope return in infinite either at launch or in an update. 

team VIP slayer:2 teams, each team has unlimited lives, until their VIP is dead. VIP has overshield(2X). 3 rounds total best 2/3.  30 kills to win a round or kill their VIP and the rest of the team has limited lives(1). 
i think this be a neat niche mode.

VIP as a game mode had a ton of potential that Bungie squandered with shitbag setttings variants for it.

But then again, the same applies to Ricochet.

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46 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

What’s platforming? 

Gameplay as in platform games, or specifically just the jumping part in the case of doom eternal

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4 hours ago, potetr said:

Gameplay as in platform games, or specifically just the jumping part in the case of doom eternal

Oh ok. 

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6 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

VIP as a game mode had a ton of potential

Because each team’s lone VIP is targeted so aggressively, he can have extraordinary traits.  

The VIP emits an invisible bubble that modifies the base traits of teammates around him with enhancements like increased jump height.  When close to the VIP, teammates can reach areas and create setups that would not normally be possible.  Get close to the VIP in order to get away from him.  

The VIP’s base traits are modified at certain kill milestones.  The VIP’s first kill begins regenerating his frag grenades.  His second kill increases reload and weapon switch speed.  His third kills adds an explosive damage resistance to his trait bubble.  It is in a team’s best interest to feed their VIP kills.  

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19 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

VIP as a game mode had a ton of potential that Bungie squandered with shitbag setttings variants for it.

But then again, the same applies to Ricochet.

Agreed on both counts. I always wanted to see a 1-life mode where one team gets a VIP and needs to get him from A to B, with like a 2min time limit.  You could also do a mode with 2 VIP's where there are points on the midline of the map that the VIP can score points for his team by reaching. That would reward map control and punish campy, passive play that 2-VIP/Team Regicide typically has.

As for Ricochet, I'm a huge fan of the mode (and Bombing Run from Unreal Tournament). I'd love to see longer respawn times and smaller, 2-dimensional goals that are raised off the ground to prevent roll-ins.

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Gears of War had something called Active Reload that would be indicated by a timer top right: Perfect timing and you get a fast reload and damage boost; Okay timing and you get a faster reload; Choke and you get a long reload. 

 

I always thought this system was creative but underutilized. For example, hitting different timing windows in a sequence could make the rounds reloaded in a weapon perform differently, like an alt fire.

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3 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

Gears of War had something called Active Reload that would be indicated by a timer top right: Perfect timing and you get a fast reload and damage boost; Okay timing and you get a faster reload; Choke and you get a long reload. 

 

I always thought this system was creative but underutilized. For example, hitting different timing windows in a sequence could make the rounds reloaded in a weapon perform differently, like an alt fire.

This sounds like a neat action sack mode. 

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