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Halo Infinite Discussion

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20 hours ago, _Synapse said:

How do we design it such that the gun doesn't become a zero-effort 1SK at it's effective range, like the H5 shotgun? 

If it's a pump-action shotgun, I would expect it to one-shot up close to make up for it being weaker at range and needing to be chambered after every shot.

Its damage and spread could be tuned in such a way that it needs to land absolutely every pellet to kill, so it actually requires a bit of aim up close. And if you miss, you're stuck readying the next shot.

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Ok what if:

Smaller reticle and spread, increased range

Need to hit all pellets for 1hk

Make it covenant and function like the beam rifle where fast consecutive shots make it overheat. If you miss the first shot you have to time the next one correctly or you get punished by a long overheat animation. 

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Shot guns in my opinion are the most frustrating gun in any video game.

1. Inconsistency. There’s many times where spread of the pellets gets the better of you and even though your aim was the same as always and 8/10 times you’ll get the kill sometimes rng takes hold.

2. Underpowered or overpowered. The shot gun is either too weak to use, or it’s too op.

3. Too easy. Shot guns 9/10 times are always super easy to hit with. They always have large reticules for hip fire so it makes ads with them obsolete because there’s no point. However  in halos 5 case it was even worse when the shotty had increased range by ADS. 

Conclusion: shot guns are just annoying to play against and trying to make them take some skill is a waste of time. If it’s not one hit kill in its respective range then the gun is now worthless. Sure you can make it two hit kill but now you must have a fast ROF shot gun so now the balance you tried making is again obsolete. Apex legends, halo, cod, etc. 

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What Halo REALLY needs is to borrow more shit from CoD. Add the SPAS-12 and Akimbo 1887's from Modern Warfare 2.  That fixes you're entire shotgun problem right there. Any other opinion is invalid.

 

 

 

/s

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34 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Shot guns in my opinion are the most frustrating gun in any video game.

1. Inconsistency. There’s many times where spread of the pellets gets the better of you and even though your aim was the same as always and 8/10 times you’ll get the kill sometimes rng takes hold.

2. Underpowered or overpowered. The shot gun is either too weak to use, or it’s too op.

3. Too easy. Shot guns 9/10 times are always super easy to hit with. They always have large reticules for hip fire so it makes ads with them obsolete because there’s no point. However  in halos 5 case it was even worse when the shotty had increased range by ADS. 

Conclusion: shot guns are just annoying to play against and trying to make them take some skill is a waste of time. If it’s not one hit kill in its respective range then the gun is now worthless. Sure you can make it two hit kill but now you must have a fast ROF shot gun so now the balance you tried making is again obsolete. Apex legends, halo, cod, etc. 

Works in Quake.

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11 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Works in Quake.

Bruh quake really -_- in quake you can take a rocket to the face and not die 

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9 hours ago, Basu said:

I've actually had a very similar idea. Basically a micro-missile launcher that works like TF2s salvo core. You can shoot up the missiles and then use the wire-guided aim to let them rain down on your opponents. 

  

A grappling hook forces the player to wait for a projectile to impact before his movement begins.  Gravity Gauntlet (jump while airborne to lunge forward) provides instant movement.  

A similar criticism could be leveled against the salvo core.  If you want projectiles from the sky, why not cut out the middle man?  Spawn the projectiles in the clouds so they begin the important part of their journey, the downward strike, immediately.  

Power item pick ups should not hinder the player eg waiting for a grappling hook to land before moving him or requiring he steer missiles up into the air just to have them plummet back down to the earth.  

 

4 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Every applicable weapon should be reverted to its Halo 1 state, if only as a starting point.

What weapon roles are essential?  Where is there room to add fun/interesting weapons?  
 

47 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Akimbo 1887s

Could a sub class of akimbo weapons work in Halo?  
 

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16 minutes ago, Boyo said:

  

Could a sub class of akimbo weapons work in Halo?  
 

No.  Dual wielding is just terrible, lets not even try to bring it back.  Both those shotguns were total BS in that game.

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7 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

No.  Dual wielding is just terrible, lets not even try to bring it back.  Both those shotguns were total BS in that game.

The SPAS12 was okay in context of everything being insanely OP. It's just that the netcode was stupid af and you regularly die around corners or before even seeing the dude that made such a 1hk weapon a joke.

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19 minutes ago, Basu said:

1hk weapon

CQC Weapons 

 

Shotgun 

RT - accurate center slug surrounded by two rapidly expanding rings of pellets 

LT - flashlight that reveals camo 

X - reload one shell at a time 

 

Energy Sword 

RT - lunge 

LT - speedboost 

X - thermal scan (reveals recent enemy footprints) 

 

Gravity Hammer 

RT - smash 

LT - pushes away incoming grenades and projectiles 

X - pulls nearby objective to weapon, becoming attached upon arrival 

 

Power Band 

RT - tractor beam (pulls in aerial vehicles or airborne players) 

LT - pick up object, drop object 

X - rotate object 

RT w/ LT - launch object forward 

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3 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

What Halo REALLY needs is to borrow more shit from CoD. Add the SPAS-12 and Akimbo 1887's from Modern Warfare 2.  That fixes you're entire shotgun problem right there. Any other opinion is invalid.

 

 

 

/s

Honestly I think being able to shoot while tossing a grenades is a cool idea that halo could use.

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2 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

This in no way substantively addresses his point.

My point is the game isn’t a strong example. Guns in quake aren’t meant to be instant kill like halos guns. It’s mostly a 1v1 game which is why guns work the way they do in that game. The way the shot gun works in quake wouldn’t be able to work in halo since we’d be instantly back to shot gun weak as shit. The shotgun in quake isn’t strong but nor is it weak. Part of the reason it isn’t strong is because of way you can move around in the game. Why’s it you can’t figure that simple point? My comparison of rocket to the face because it shows you how different the games halo and quake are. The guns aren’t meant to be a one hit kill. 

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The Needler can no longer be manually reloaded but it can still be fired until all available needles are gone.  Once the trigger is released, needles begin popping back up, one by one, quickly refilling the weapon’s visible top magazine.  

RT fires 12sk automatic homing needles.  LT fires 8sk four round bursts with vertical recoil.  X toggles to Rifle mode where RT fires 6sk semi-auto headship-capable needles and LT scopes.  

 

The Gravity Bow is technically the Brute sniper.  RT alternates between a 0.3 second charge time and firing a 2sk knockback projectile.  LT charges then fires a projectile that creates an gravity vortex aoe on impact, damaging and tossing those who enter.  X toggles LT to charging then firing a gravity anchor projectile that drags an impacted aerial vehicle down until the stuck-on object is destroyed.  

 

The Sand Blaster is the Brute precision rifle.  RT fires 5sk semi-auto headshot-capable glass projectiles.  Holding LT continuously sprays a flat wide ribbon of sand a short distance.  RT w/ LT tightens the ribbon into a jet, increasing the range and damage of the concentrated stream.  

 

The Plasma Detonator is the Elite power weapon.  RT semi automatically fires up to four remotely detonated stickies.  LT detonates it/them.  X toggles to Launcher mode where LT scopes and RT charges then fires a burst of up to four homing stickies.  

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28 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

My point is the game isn’t a strong example. Guns in quake aren’t meant to be instant kill like halos guns. It’s mostly a 1v1 game which is why guns work the way they do in that game. The way the shot gun works in quake wouldn’t be able to work in halo since we’d be instantly back to shot gun weak as shit. The shotgun in quake isn’t strong but nor is it weak. Part of the reason it isn’t strong is because of way you can move around in the game. Why’s it you can’t figure that simple point? My comparison of rocket to the face because it shows you how different the games halo and quake are. The guns aren’t meant to be a one hit kill. 

The shotgun in both Live and Champions deals 100 damage if every pellet connects, that's an instakill against someone with no armor.

Mechanically it would be fine. It has a static spread pattern so there's no randomness, and requires good aim so you can't just clip someone with the edge of the reticle for a free kill. Expand your horizons beyond mainstream console FPS and you'll see your shotgun criticisms don't hold up.

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The Scepter is the Promethean power weapon.  RT fires 3sk projectiles, like a scoped light rifle.  LT is essentially a reach grenade launcher.  Hold to fire, release to detonate an explosive that can damage infantry and stun vehicles.  

 

The Focus Rifle is the Promethean Sniper.  RT fires a continuous beam that damages infantry and gradually drains the health of an impacted vehicle’s occupants.  X toggles RT to charging then firing a laser blast that kills, destroys, and penetrates whatever it hits.  

LT activates a 4x scope.  While scoped, R3 toggles between 4x and 8x magnification.  Melee is disabled while scoped (variable zoom snipers use the melee button to toggle magnification level).  

 

The SAW is the Brute power weapon but it’s really a remote control vehicle, a big spiked wheel that rolls over shit to damage/destroy it.  Two gravity geysers shoot out the broad sides of the wheel, pushing/flipping objects it passes by but also serving as its weak spots (the spiked rim is near impervious to damage).  

LT and RT steer this perpetually rolling splatter machine left and right.  Pulling both triggers boosts.  

 

The Rocket Launcher is the quintessential power weapon.  LT scopes.  X reloads.  RT fires.  If RT continues to be held for a moment after firing, HUDLink activates, causing the rocket to home in on what the reticle is currently aimed at.  

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1 hour ago, Sitri said:

The shotgun in both Live and Champions deals 100 damage if every pellet connects, that's an instakill against someone with no armor.

Mechanically it would be fine. It has a static spread pattern so there's no randomness, and requires good aim so you can't just clip someone with the edge of the reticle for a free kill. Expand your horizons beyond mainstream console FPS and you'll see your shotgun criticisms don't hold up.

Ok but I don’t play quake and many people don’t today. I play the other FPS I listed and the shot gun problems are present. You can’t use an FPS that plays different from every game out there to try to justify your POV especially when you point out the lack of armor, but from what I notice in quake people are always managing some armor in quake majority of the time(this just what I noticed from watching quake tourneys). You need to look at the majority of games and actually take into account what the guns are like in the most relevant which maybe you don’t find important but I would. The shot gun comparison I made was based on how the gun works in most games not the one it apparently doesn’t. 

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2 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

"I cannot refute your well developed and on topic point so here is some unrelated crap that is complete conjecture" 

Stfu you know damn right it’s the truth. How can you bring up a gun from a game that plays different from every game out there? It’s not comparable. The shotgun already doesn’t one hit kill if you’re off by a hair via the reticule, yes even in h5. Quake isn’t a good example of a shotgun done right. You need to look at how other guns work in the game and then see if the shot gun is balanced, op, difficult or easy etc. 

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The Quake shotgun is a good yardstick as far as difficulty to aim goes, though you do want to be aware of the fact that it's easily in the top 3 FPS shotguns in terms of difficulty to use. 

 

Shotgun: The most consistently lethal non-power weapon in the sandbox for ranges upto 10m, and still a high-ranking contender upto 17.5m. 

Projectile Velocity: 150m/s. Not a "slow" projectile by any means, but requires a significant amount of shot leading at the edge of it's effective ranges. 

Spread: The spread of the pellets is limited to the interior 2/3rd of the reticle. The pellets are distributed evenly within said region. 

Reticle Changes: Using the Halo 3 shotty reticle as a benchmark, the new reticle has 70% of the H3 shotty reticle's area. 

RoF: 150RPM. 0.4 second cooldown per shot. 

Projectile/Weapon Properties: The shotgun fires 8 pellets, which individually deal 1/6th of the total damage a shielded Spartan can take. 

The shotgun's essentially meant to be like the utility weapon, but with the scope of it's effectiveness limited to CQC and it's design changed accordingly. It's a weapon that's extremely effective in skilled hands and capable of eliminating whole teams that don't respect it. 

I think an alt-fire where the shotgun loads a more traditional buckshot fire would be nice, though that's moreso for PvE reasons. 

 

1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

Stfu you know damn right it’s the truth. How can you bring up a gun from a game that plays different from every game out there? It’s not comparable. The shotgun already doesn’t one hit kill if you’re off by a hair via the reticule, yes even in h5. Quake isn’t a good example of a shotgun done right. You need to look at how other guns work in the game and then see if the shot gun is balanced, op, difficult or easy etc. 

The Quake shotgun is a good example because Timmy can't get a killionaire by crouching with it. 

The H5 shotgun is literally the easiest one in the entire franchise. On top of the ridiculous fire + melee combo from previous games that squashes any skill out of CQC battles, it's also got extremely forgiving magnetism, longer range, and a quick RoF. 

I don't know why you have a meltdown whenever people try to take the shittiest parts of Halo and think of how to make them better. Like, you oppose every single negative change vehemently, but you also oppose every positive change just as vehemently. 

Do you want Halo to be nothing but stale, shallow teamshot where the individual skillgap is completely squashed unless a sniper rifle is in play? 

Half the reason people don't like comp Halo is because it looks so stale and uninteresting.

Rather than play dynamically and have to constantly think about how to move, where to look, and where to shoot - I sit on bottom green and put fire on anybody peeking through blue window. That's why people don't like competitive Halo. It's unintuitive and unenjoyable compared to games that allow for individual playstyle and dynamism. 

Like seriously, what level of brainworms do you have to be on to unironically think the H5 shotgun is a good iteration of the weapon? Literal reddit-tier opinion. 

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57 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

don't know why you have a meltdown whenever people try to take the shittiest parts of Halo and think of how to make them better. Like, you oppose every single negative change vehemently, but you also oppose every positive change just as vehemently. 

I don but I hate it when an example from a game no one plays. Like why? Why do you never bring up games people actually know. I’ve never been against positive changes except in cases where one attempts to make something “skillful or difficult” just because that weapon has nudged them the wrong way. Tbh the shot gun deep down should be easy to kill with. The real way to balance a shot gun in my eyes is a fast strafe ability(apex looking at you boy a game people know of) and a reticule that isn’t huge as shit can do wonders so shot gun isn’t so op but at the same time is. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Do you want Halo to be nothing but stale, shallow teamshot where the individual skillgap is completely squashed unless a sniper rifle is in play? 

Half the reason people don't like comp Halo is because it looks so stale and uninteresting.

Rather than play dynamically and have to constantly think about how to move, where to look, and where to shoot - I sit on bottom green and put fire on anybody peeking through blue window. That's why people don't like competitive Halo. It's unintuitive and unenjoyable compared to games that allow for individual playstyle and dynamism. 

Like seriously, what level of brainworms do you have to be on to unironically think the H5 shotgun is a good iteration of the weapon? Literal reddit-tier opinion. 

Well that shit doesn’t to apply to h5 as individual plays and skill was on the table 24/7. Hell h5 had tons of people watching tourneys. Worlds had 100K+  viewers and for halo that’s a lot. Do you think ce is any better? No one in the comp crowd even likes that game, and you think it’s because it’s too hard when no that’s not the reason. 

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