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Halo Infinite Discussion

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3 hours ago, Boyo said:

Is the plasma:shields::bullets:health dichotomy still necessary?  Can’t we just balance weapons based on overall kill time, and not have shields pop in one plasma bolt but require another 27 to kill?  To me, making plasma weapons significantly stronger against shields than health just seems to encourage the use of a precision finishing weapon.  I don’t think this is ideal.  Plasma weapons should be able to stand on their own and not be relegated to “shield strippers” which is what they become when they are too strong against shields while too weak against health.  

You are correct, because FPS games do not have the kill resolution to support this kind of gameplay. It's meaningless to have a shields/health discrepancy in weapons in a game like Halo because you'll die WHILE switching your weapon.

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So here's my mini review/overview/rant about Cyberpunk 2077.

 

Pros:

-Amazing writing (characters and story are really good, as expected; there are lots of feels to be felt)

-Most incredible and detailed open world I've ever seen (it especially looks god-like w/ ray-tracing)

-Gunplay is surprisingly good, lots of cool weapons to try out

-Side quests (aka side gigs) are all very diverse and well done

-Soundtrack is great

 

Cons:

Cyberpunk-2077-coming-when-its-ready.png

519.jpg

 

Things can that be fixed with patches/updates within the next 3–6 months:

-Bugs, lots of them

-Bad optimization

-Quality of life improvements, like de-zooming the forsaken mini map

-Balancing issues (perks, weapon damage, etc)

-Economy issues (why are cars so expensive?)

 

Things that can't so easily be fixed:

-Civilian AI, police AI, enemy AI, driving AI – all terrible. Ai is bad across the board.

-Police/wanted system sucks dick, police will literally spawn behind you and start shooting you over the most minor crimes (to be fair, other games like GTA do this too, but they hide it by having the police spawn several blocks away and drive towards your location with sirens)

-Character customization after you make your character, such as haircuts, tattoos, etc. (do barbers not exist in 2077?)

-Overhaul needed to weapon rarity (isn't based on lore such as what manufacturer made them, but more on MMO-esque mechanics such as coloured rarities)

-Random events/radiant quests happening in the world

-Things to do aside from quests (e.g. mini games)

 

List of missing features:

-NPC AI was supposed to be "dynamic" and "realistic," but NPCs don't have any daily routines or realistic behaviour; they do the same animation forever until you leave the area

-Trauma team was supposed to play a more significant role, but they're barely in the game

-Police system was supposed to be immersive and trigger random events (e.g. you could bribe them to look away from your crimes). None of this exists.

-Hacking and stealth are very simplistic, looked way more involved in the trailers

-Day/night cycle was supposed to have some relevance to world/gameplay, but it's a purely cosmetic change

-Factions/gangs that control different parts of the city, being able to affect your reputation with them, realistic encounters, etc. None of this exists.

-Lifepaths aren't as meaningful as we were led to believe

-Braindances were supposed to be a significant part of the game. Not so anymore.

-No weapon or vehicle customization

-Can't buy new apartments or real estate

-Parts of the city are inaccessible, likely for DLC purposes

-Subway system was removed

-World was supposed to be a "living, breathing ecosystem." Depends on who you ask but I don't think we got this.

 

I can be an optimist and assume they'll pull a No Man's Sky with a bunch of updates, but frankly that might be expecting too much. I don't know. It's still a pretty good game, and even a great game once they fix the bugs and add in some of the improvements I mentioned, but it's not the masterpiece it very clearly has the potential to be. Which is a shame. It's extremely jarring to compare Cyberpunk 2077 to Witcher 3 and observe the drastic difference of quality. Witcher 3 had such a real-feeling world with so many things to do and things that clicked together, where seemingly everything had some effect on something else. Everything just worked.™ Unfortunately, Cyberpunk 2077 is only a fraction of that quality. It was supposed to save us from the nightmare that is 2020, but it just made it worse given all the wasted marketing and hype.

Well... At least I can look forward to that next-gen update for Witcher 3.

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I've been playing Cyberpunk lately.  It's meh.

I guess if you like a big, pretty map you may like it, but it's not for me.

 

I'd rather they made another Witcher game than this buggy pile of glitches.

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18 minutes ago, Rick said:

I've been playing Cyberpunk lately.  It's meh.

I guess if you like a big, pretty map you may like it, but it's not for me.

 

I'd rather they made another Witcher game than this buggy pile of glitches.

What are you on old gen

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29 minutes ago, Rick said:

I've been playing Cyberpunk lately.  It's meh.

I guess if you like a big, pretty map you may like it, but it's not for me.

 

I'd rather they made another Witcher game than this buggy pile of glitches.

I wanted to buy it because of that big, pretty map but watching others play it I can't see anything that would make me stay beyond staring at scenics. I feel like the worldbuilding outside of the visuals is poor. As you said: meh.

However, I'd be happy to pick it up next year (I haven't bought it yet) if it's smoothed out and not $90.

 

Also prediction time: Infinite will be a generic action game that's not terrible but not amazing and die off in 12 months. I'm not predicting a catastrophe like MCC, more of a meandering drawn out wringing like Halo 5. With sprint and clamber making the movement the same as the last two CoD's there's nothing Infinite can offer that those games can't except for combined arms warfare and weapon pickups.

They need to really nail the BTB to keep the game relevant imo. Combined arms should be the selling point and I don't mean Warzone because Warzone in Halo 5 makes me puke.

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4 hours ago, potetr said:

 

I'd extend the burst to four (but fired faster)

Which reason do you have in mind as to why you'd prefer a 4-shot burst? I picked 2 because first of all, "repeater", and also because I felt it'd be a decent spot for the weapon between "precision plasma weapon" and "fills the air with projectiles". 

4 hours ago, potetr said:

 

let it kill in two, but slow the velocity so it's harder to hit with. 

I really want to avoid giving weapons outright lethality, especially plasma weapons. There's a lot of meaningful "subtle" aspects of both close quarters and medium quarters combat in Halo, and creating weapons that have super high lethality just kind of washes all those subtleties away. In my sandbox, there'd be a Needle Rifle to approximately in the role of what you describe. 

This gun's thing is that it's a very effective ranged shield stripper, and partners well with just about every headshot/human weapon. 0.2 seconds for a burst, followed by a 0.1 second swap animation, gives the player 0.3 seconds to deliver a killing headshot. Alternatively, the player can choose to make several opponents  one shot. 

A few changes we can make in retrospection are:

- A 3 round burst fired over a 0.2 second period, where 2 of those rounds combined will strip a Spartan's shields.  

- A swap time of 0.2 seconds. 

- A projectile velocity raised to 160m/s. 

This makes a bigger difference in the context of being an effective mid-range shield stripper. 

4 hours ago, potetr said:

But recoil, ew. What does it add to the game when played at the highest level?

TTK calc for plasma rifle is off by 0.1s for all btw, x shots to kill means x-1 shot intervals

You could substitute recoil with anything else tbf. Recoil is there so that there's another layer of difficulty in shooting precisely with the weapon, and so the player has to develop a cadence for adjusting their reticle relative to the enemy. I could have lowered the projectile velocity but that would start to dip the weapon into a territory where it's not the type of weapon I envisioned. 

To remedy the issue, you could have the each bolt in a 3-bolt burst fire in a set triangular pattern. 

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3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

in a game like Halo because you'll die WHILE switching your weapon.

Halo's weapon swap times are ridiculously long and need to be truncated to nothing more than 0.25~ seconds per weapon (barring stuff like shotguns). 

There's room for so much meaningful sandbox interaction when we skip the dumb animation. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Which reason do you have in mind as to why you'd prefer a 4-shot burst?

Where the Battle Rifle has no recoil, fast projectiles and a scope, the Needle Burst has vertical recoil, slower projectiles, and no scope.  Instead of aiming for the head, you aim for the groin and let the four round burst work its way up into the body (that is likely moving and needs to be tracked throughout the long burst).  

Two full bursts, 8 needles kill, but the resultant supercombine explosion can damage the user if he is too close.  I feel like this weapon fills a unique niche.  Where the mauler is the close range “2sk”, the needle burst is the close-medium range “2sk”.  

Plus, 2 rounds isn’t a burst.  It’s a stutter.  Duh-duh, duh-duh, duh-duh.  

 

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Halo's weapon swap times are ridiculously long and need to be truncated to nothing more than 0.25~ seconds per weapon (barring stuff like shotguns). 

There's room for so much meaningful sandbox interaction when we skip the dumb animation. 

Alt-fire is like a second weapon the player can instantly switch to.  Don’t need fast weapon switching if you don’t need to switch weapons in the first place.  Taps forehead.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Halo's weapon swap times are ridiculously long and need to be truncated to nothing more than 0.25~ seconds per weapon (barring stuff like shotguns). 

There's room for so much meaningful sandbox interaction when we skip the dumb animation. 

Even then, the kill times are too short (even in fuckass teamshot Halo) to meaningfully implement this system. It could only function with any coherence via something like the noob combo, i.e. an insta-kill (and NOT a spray fest like dual wielding). Otherwise it would be impossible to contend with the mid-tier weapons like the shotgun, SMG, etc. And at that point the sandbox would be HEAVILY diluted. It just makes more sense to have single weapons that fill each required niche.

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I would remove the shield damage bonus from plasma weapons with the exception of OS. It's cool to give niche weapons the capability to counter powerups (auto spray for camo, plasmas for OS). 

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On 12/18/2020 at 6:55 PM, Shekkles said:

I haven't preordered a game since Halo 3 and that's because it physically ran out of stock on shelves.

Since 2007 that's not a problem though and preordering is for idiots.

Only reason I ever preordered at all this gen was to pre-load my digital games so they were ready to play for me. But with Xbox's new feature that you can download a game before even buying it, preorders should flat out not exist anymore and the only reason it will ever be kept alive is if people fall for the "preorder at XXX now for this exclusive skin (that you probably won't use after 1 week of playing)!"

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9 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Halo's weapon swap times are ridiculously long and need to be truncated to nothing more than 0.25~ seconds per weapon (barring stuff like shotguns). 

There's room for so much meaningful sandbox interaction when we skip the dumb animation. 

The shotgun draw should be near-instant like Halo 2's sword. It's too situational a weapon to just be running around with it out at all times, and doesn't teleport you into someone's face like the aforementioned sword.

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5 hours ago, Sitri said:

The shotgun draw should be near-instant like Halo 2's sword. It's too situational a weapon to just be running around with it out at all times, and doesn't teleport you into someone's face like the aforementioned sword.

Treat the Shotgun like a Utility Weapon+.  It fires the same projectile as the utility weapon, just surrounded by two expanding rings of pellets.  Increasing the Shotgun’s overall utility while retaining its close range lethality allows players to keep the weapon equipped in more situations without abandoning its core purpose.  

The large reticle (read: no exact center marking) and lack of scope tamp down the center slug’s long range effectiveness.  

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4 hours ago, Sitri said:

The shotgun draw should be near-instant like Halo 2's sword. It's too situational a weapon to just be running around with it out at all times, and doesn't teleport you into someone's face like the aforementioned sword.

How do we design it such that the gun doesn't become a zero-effort 1SK at it's effective range, like the H5 shotgun? 

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

How do we design it such that the gun doesn't become a zero-effort 1SK at it's effective range, like the H5 shotgun? 

It's a quasi-power weapon. Why shouldn't it be a zero-effort kill in close quarters? You just need to make sure the damage drop off over distance is considerable so it's not overpowering at mid-range.

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1 hour ago, S0UL FLAME said:

The Plasma Pistol did. So did the Plasma Launcher

Yeah the plasma pistol in H5 is honestly crazy good compared to other halos to compensate for thrust so I think it would just be a matter of lowering the tracking on the hydra

Honestly, even in H5, the hydra is so so in arena, basically only works on people who don't know you're there and can't knock you out of scope

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2 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

The Plasma Pistol did. So did the Plasma Launcher

dont remember plasma pistol or launcher being able to do this

 

halohydra.gif?w=392&h=190

you can use this to ignore geometry. lock, aim around the geo and maybe just maybe...

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I just hope Infinite has aim assist values that mean that the best way to aim using a controller is to actually use the right stick. Like holy fuck, playing MCC again with a controller made me realise how disgustingly strong AA is in this entire franchise, i mean holy shit when the best way to aim is get the reticle on them and then let aim assist do the rest while you strafe is just wrong. There's a reason almost every lobby is full of controllers despite PC players making most of the playerbase up, even after crossplay. 

 

 

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On 12/21/2020 at 4:23 PM, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

It's a quasi-power weapon. Why shouldn't it be a zero-effort kill in close quarters? You just need to make sure the damage drop off over distance is considerable so it's not overpowering at mid-range.

With the exception of weapons like rockets (even which take some baseline level of awareness + caution to use effectively), power weapons are designed such that the product of-

(Average skill required to use the weapon) X (Absolute lethality of the weapon with perfect play, measured in players killed) > than what said product is for a utility weapon. 

Essentially, power weapons take a varying amount of skill to use, but a certain skill "input" will always produce a higher lethality than the same input provided to a non power weapon. 

I absolutely despise the idea of making it an easy 1SK in close quarters because it makes the weapon incredibly one dimensional and unfun to play with/against or watch in competitive play, even moreso than rockets. At least with rockets, players need to aim down and not blow themselves up. 

Making the damage values such that the gun loses effectiveness at mid-range decreases the versatility of the gun and makes it even more featureless and one-dimensional. You basically end up regurgitating the previous iterations of the shotgun. 

Following the H5 approach to design this gun means that you basically have to take it out of competitive play. It's so ridiculously easy to lock down any power position with the shotgun. 

On 12/21/2020 at 5:50 PM, Basu said:

Could the Hydra work in a thrust-less Halo? Discuss. 

The Hydra is essentially a fusion of the Spartan laser and the missile pod from H3, with the added mechanic of doing greater damage with the longer the missiles take to travel. 

I think it's a decent idea building off what Halo 3 did, but I hate auto-tracking projectile mechanics. 

Personally, fuse the SAW and the Hydra into one weapon. Call it the Heavy Assault Rifle, or Anti-Armor Rifle, or just the SAW. Design it like Doom 2016's Heavy Assault rifle, where it can alternate between firing bullets and medium-powered missiles. Make it a power weapon, exclusive to modes that feature lots of vehicle play. 

The gun fires "slow" projectiles, but it deals a lot of damage and imparts a hell of a lot of kinetic energy to vehicles. The missiles can be remotely aimed after firing, following the user's reticle and dealing damage similarly to how the bullet fire does.  

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11 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

The Plasma Pistol did. So did the Plasma Launcher

Good points. The beta Plasma Launcher could be a decent starting point. With a decent player movement speed and charge+lock-on times fine-tuned against the utility this might make for a good weapon. 

4 hours ago, _Synapse said:

" projectiles, but it deals a lot of damage and imparts a hell of a lot of kinetic energy to vehicles. The missiles can be remotely aimed after firing, following the user's reticle and dealing damage similarly to how the bullet fire does.  

I've actually had a very similar idea. Basically a micro-missile launcher that works like TF2s salvo core. You can shoot up the missiles and then use the wire-guided aim to let them rain down on your opponents. 

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