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Halo Infinite Discussion

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Some of you underestimate the desire of clone weapons. It offers another sense of variety, although not as significant as variety is going from the BR to a shotgun or fuel rod cannon.  It’s not as simple as letting people customize what the weapon looks like. If we look at h5 weapon sandbox(pre patch) we can acknowledge that the weapons on the map were upgrades but they were upgrades where it mattered. The dmr has longer range, the light rifle is 3sk when scoped giving it a unique niche, the carbines ROF is faster so it may be beneficial in scoped engagements. There are justifiable means for other precision weapons on the map. The main problem is these weapons had stronger aim assist making them easier to aim.  If the pistol was 4sk things might of been ok regarding pre patch h5. 
 

the h6 sandbox needs to be on a similar level as the pre patch h5, so weapons are worth picking up but they shouldn’t be easier to aim. The utility should still be the dominant weapon but this creates a more diverse weapon sandbox especially with the amount of weapons in halo today. This isn’t ce with like only 5 weapons. 

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19 hours ago, Boyo said:

With a very quick killing utility weapon, how much room is left in the sandbox?  How many weapons should surround a very quick killing utility?  Rocks, snipe, shotty, sword, grenade launcher?  What else?  

Utility Weapon - Pistol/DMR/BR. The important thing is to clearly establish the utility weapon rather than have 2 or 3 with slight variations and advantages, because then we lose the real benefit of this weapon. 

Power Weapons - Sniper, Rockets, Sword, SAW, GL, Laser 

Role Weapons - Shotgun, AR/SMG, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Mauler, Carbine, etc. This is where you can add some creativity and nuance to the sandbox, and as long as the utility weapon is properly balanced, these wont break the sandbox. 

 

The function of the utility weapon is to give players a fighting chance in almost any situation, but the effectiveness must be skill-dependent. This can only be accomplished with a low TTK but high average TTK (due to the large skill-requirement of the weapon). Players should almost always have the opportunity, based on their own skill (and the lack of opponents skill), of fighting out of a situation. That doesn't mean the best shot will always win, it just means that weapon skill matters in an outcome. 

Here's how I view current Halo games in terms of what determines the outcome of an engagement: 70% numerical advantage, 20% positional advantage, 10% player ability. It should be closer to 30% numerical advantage, 30% positional advantage, 40% player ability. 

Power Weapons obviously serve to break that allocation in favor of the player who holds the power weapon. The balance of these comes from the fact that they are difficult to obtain and have limited ammo, as well as the ability of a great player to still out-slay them with the utility weapon (this is not the case in modern Halo games, but it should be how the balance works). 

Role Weapons serve specific roles and act as supplements to the utility weapon. They provide an advantage in their specific role (a shotgun in close range for example), but they should not have an insurmountable advantage (which comes from giving them too much aim assists and making the utility weapon too weak). 

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4 hours ago, Basu said:

@_Synapse sorry but how on earth are you judging the strafe from a low-level campaign demo? Not saying you're wrong, but people did the same during the initial H4 MP reveal and were hilariously wrong. 

I could very well be wrong but that's the only tangible thing we really have to go off at this point. I do think that the strafe will be good, at least because we got to see how it looked in a first-person gunfight. I'm not sure which H4 reveal vid you're talking about, could you link it? Maybe that was first person too and I'm in for an unpleasant surprise.

If I am correct in my observation, then slightly raised movement speed + proportionally tweaked acceleration might make for the best strafe we've seen in mainstage Halo. 

At this point, we have to push HARD for a projectile utility. If we received this level of strafe, a projectile 4SK utility with a TTK between 1-1.2 seconds, and ESports Engine settings that aren't shit - we could have a decent H2-styled game on our hands. 

Sprintfinite is gonna be what it's gonna be, and I ultimately have to come to terms with it or move away from this franchise as a whole. This really is the make-or-break game, no one's going to wait 10 years for the next game to redeem the franchise. 

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25 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I could very well be wrong but that's the only tangible thing we really have to go off at this point. I do think that the strafe will be good, at least because we got to see how it looked in a first-person gunfight. I'm not sure which H4 reveal vid you're talking about, could you link it? Maybe that was first person too and I'm in for an unpleasant surprise.

If I am correct in my observation, then slightly raised movement speed + proportionally tweaked acceleration might make for the best strafe we've seen in mainstage Halo. 

At this point, we have to push HARD for a projectile utility. If we received this level of strafe, a projectile 4SK utility with a TTK between 1-1.2 seconds, and ESports Engine settings that aren't shit - we could have a decent H2-styled game on our hands. 

Sprintfinite is gonna be what it's gonna be, and I ultimately have to come to terms with it or move away from this franchise as a whole. This really is the make-or-break game, no one's going to wait 10 years for the next game to redeem the franchise. 

It was the very first H4 MP reveal with spartans walking around on Haven (it was called Wraparound or something like that).

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1 hour ago, BigShow36 said:

Utility Weapon - Pistol/DMR/BR. The important thing is to clearly establish the utility weapon rather than have 2 or 3 with slight variations and advantages, because then we lose the real benefit of this weapon. 

Agree.  As much as I personally enjoy the Covenant Carbine, there is no point in placing effective clones of the spawn weapon on the map. In addition, we don’t need a rocks paper scissor system between multiple precision semi autos, like Pistol close, BR medium, DMR long or anything like that.  We need one perfectly tuned precision semi auto that all other weapons can be balanced around.  
 

1 hour ago, BigShow36 said:

Power Weapons - Sniper, Rockets, Sword, SAW, GL, Laser 

Sniper, rockets, sword, GL, I agree.  SAW I assume means “power automatic” and Laser means “charge then fire blast”?  Could we not roll these two weapon into one?  X toggles RT between firing a continuous laser beam (power auto) and charging then firing a powerful laser blast.  Battery operated weapons can use the reload button to toggle firemodes.  
 

1 hour ago, BigShow36 said:

Role Weapons - Shotgun, AR/SMG, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Mauler, Carbine, etc. This is where you can add some creativity and nuance to the sandbox, and as long as the utility weapon is properly balanced, these wont break the sandbox. 

Here’s where an instantly available alt-fire mapped to LT really shines.  
 

Shotgun - flashlight reveals camo players in arena and illuminates dark areas in campaign/infection 

AR - railgun can be charged then fired once ammo is picked up from off the map, the social secondary spawn weapon is also a power weapon in disguise 

Plasma Rifle - exhaust vent expels a short range forward blast of hot damaging gas, rapidly cooling the weapon 

Plasma Pistol - X toggles LT between charging then firing an EMP Bolt and deploying a disc shaped Plasma Shield around the weapon that still allows primary fire through a hole in the center 

Mauler - bruteshot rounds deal weak splash and knock back 

Carbine - 7sk battery operated Boltshot loses the Carbine’s scope but gains two alt-fires, X toggles LT between charging then firing a rapidly dropping projectile that kills OS with one headshot or teleports the user to its point of impact 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Agree.  As much as I personally enjoy the Covenant Carbine, there is no point in placing effective clones of the spawn weapon on the map. In addition, we don’t need a rocks paper scissor system between multiple precision semi autos, like Pistol close, BR medium, DMR long or anything like that.  We need one perfectly tuned precision semi auto that all other weapons can be balanced around.  
 

Sniper, rockets, sword, GL, I agree.  SAW I assume means “power automatic” and Laser means “charge then fire blast”?  Could we not roll these two weapon into one?  X toggles RT between firing a continuous laser beam (power auto) and charging then firing a powerful laser blast.  Battery operated weapons can use the reload button to toggle firemodes.  
 

Here’s where an instantly available alt-fire mapped to LT really shines.  
 

Shotgun - flashlight reveals camo players in arena and illuminates dark areas in campaign/infection 

AR - railgun can be charged then fired once ammo is picked up from off the map, the social secondary spawn weapon is also a power weapon is disguise 

Plasma Rifle - exhaust vent expels a short range forward blast of hot damaging gas, rapidly cooling the weapon 

Plasma Pistol - X toggles LT between charging then firing an EMP Bolt and deploying a disc shaped Plasma Shield around the weapon that still allows primary fire through a hole in the center 

Mauler - bruteshot rounds deal weak splash and knock back 

Carbine - 7sk battery operated Boltshot loses the Carbine’s scope but gains two alt-fires, X toggles LT between charging then firing a rapidly dropping projectile that kills OS with one headshot or teleports the user to its point of impact 

 

 

The flashlight revealing camo'd players might be one of the best ideas I've heard from the Halo community.

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9 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

The flashlight revealing camo'd players might be one of the best ideas I've heard from the Halo community.

Or hell, maybe some of the weapons with the scopes on them should be helpful. Like the grenade launcher from Reach, if you stand on the nade the indicator on the launcher will light up, indicating someone is on the explosive.

 

Maybe certain covenant, banished weapons could see small glimmers of camo on the unscoped gun.

since ya know it IS their tech

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6 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

The flashlight revealing camo'd players might be one of the best ideas I've heard from the Halo community.

I disagree tbh. Players should have to locate the cloaked player by merit of their own vision/hearing, or by pinging the cloaked player's shields with a projectile/explosion. A flashlight that reveals cloaked players (especially on a weapon that's traditionally unchallengeable in CQC) feels unnecessary. 

What about an alt-fire mode that covers a 2x2x2 world unit portion of the map (centered about the point at which it makes contact with geometry) in a vaporized plasma cloud that weakens/briefly knocks out the camo of a player who walks through said cloud? The player using the weapon is taking a conscious risk by using a mode that can't do physical damage, but also forcing a pursuing cloaked player to either engage, disengage, or to have to move more carefully. Likewise, the cloaked player can also time their aggression carefully and get a 0.2-0.3 second headstart on the opponent, taking the risk of getting peeled out of their cloak if they're a fraction of a second off in anticipating their opponent's actions. 

The shotgun in general is an extremely tricky piece of hardware to design, mostly because the precedent set for it by previous Halos is pretty garbo. It's always been a shallow "ez instakill within this range" weapon. 

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6 hours ago, Boyo said:

Shotgun - flashlight reveals camo players in arena and illuminates dark areas in campaign/infection 

Thoughts on use in Arena's already posted, but agree on Campaign and Infection use. The use of pitch darkness is very atmospheric. You want to be careful when designing Keyes-styled missions though, the shotgun's already the primary weapon in anti-flood engagements. Limiting the ability to illuminate an area to the shotgun makes the player's weapon choices and playstyles even more one-dimensional. I'd give this to a few other weapons too, like a Flamethrower, an Energy Sword (a la SPV3), and select plasma weaponry. 

6 hours ago, Boyo said:

AR - railgun can be charged then fired once ammo is picked up from off the map, the social secondary spawn weapon is also a power weapon in disguise 

Plasma Rifle - exhaust vent expels a short range forward blast of hot damaging gas, rapidly cooling the weapon 

100% on the idea behind the AR, even if I think a grenade launcher would be more thematically fitting than a railgun. It's sad how there's been a grand total of 1 Halo game to make use of power weapon ammo boxes (Halo 2/2A). 

7 hours ago, Boyo said:

Plasma Rifle - exhaust vent expels a short range forward blast of hot damaging gas, rapidly cooling the weapon 

I believe this is supposed to be similar to what the DOOM Eternal Plasma Rifle's mod does? 

Not opposed to the idea, but is there a unique style of combat that you want to encourage with the cloud alt-fire? It almost feels counterintuitive, considering that overheating the plasma rifle is typically something that you want to discourage with the weapon, like how you discourage panic-firing the rocket launcher when at point blank range. 

7 hours ago, Boyo said:

Plasma Pistol - X toggles LT between charging then firing an EMP Bolt and deploying a disc shaped Plasma Shield around the weapon that still allows primary fire through a hole in the center 

100% Agree on the PvE side of things (as long as there's an appropriate battery drain, damage limit, and the shield doesn't last after the player switches weapons). This would free up a ton of room for CQC combat heavy playstyles. 

How would the shield work in Arena? 

7 hours ago, Boyo said:

Carbine - 7sk battery operated Boltshot loses the Carbine’s scope but gains two alt-fires, X toggles LT between charging then firing a rapidly dropping projectile that kills OS with one headshot or teleports the user to its point of impact 

How high would the projectile gravity scale be on the OS 1SKing mode?  

Teleporting the user to PoI sounds overpowered af. Literally makes the gun into a high-tier power weapon. Imagine teleporting into the midst of 3 players mid-setup and catching them off guard. 

There'd have to be significant visual and audio cues for opposing players to be able to react, in addition to a significantly long, visible, and audible charge-up period as well as a strong projectile gravity scale of some sort. 

Not to be bothered too much with thematic appeal, but I also think that any alt-fires or primary fires that make use of teleportation would be best reserved for Promethean weaponry given how they're a faction that can teleport. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I disagree tbh. Players should have to locate the cloaked player by merit of their own vision/hearing, or by pinging the cloaked player's shields with a projectile/explosion. A flashlight that reveals cloaked players (especially on a weapon that's traditionally unchallengeable in CQC) feels unnecessary. 

What about an alt-fire mode that covers a 2x2x2 world unit portion of the map (centered about the point at which it makes contact with geometry) in a vaporized plasma cloud that weakens/briefly knocks out the camo of a player who walks through said cloud? The player using the weapon is taking a conscious risk by using a mode that can't do physical damage, but also forcing a pursuing cloaked player to either engage, disengage, or to have to move more carefully. Likewise, the cloaked player can also time their aggression carefully and get a 0.2-0.3 second headstart on the opponent, taking the risk of getting peeled out of their cloak if they're a fraction of a second off in anticipating their opponent's actions. 

The shotgun in general is an extremely tricky piece of hardware to design, mostly because the precedent set for it by previous Halos is pretty garbo. It's always been a shallow "ez instakill within this range" weapon. 

Don't want to speak for @MultiLockOn, but I think he's implying the flashlight idea itself is good, not necessarily that the flashlight on the shotgun is good.

I can see it being a useful attachment to an otherwise shitty auto side arm. You run the risk of getting caught wielding a bad weapon, but it can give the weapon utility if you know Camo is active.

I think I'd also want firing the weapon (whatever weapon that may be) to turn off the flashlight. That way, you're not rendering the Camo completely pointless in the actual gun-fight.

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15 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

It's sad how there's been a grand total of 1 Halo game to make use of power weapon ammo boxes (Halo 2/2A). 

The reason for this is it’s provides a sense of unbalance. A part of balancing power weapons is their ammo reserves. 

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52 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Limiting the ability to illuminate an area to the shotgun makes the player's weapon choices and playstyles even more one-dimensional. I'd give this to a few other weapons too, like a Flamethrower, an Energy Sword (a la SPV3), and select plasma weaponry. 


When the player turns on his flashlight, he is choosing to be seen as much as he is choosing to see.  I’m not sure that I would want a weapon like the sword to emit a constant light.  Do AI just ignore the light or do they react to a sneaking player because of it?  Charging a Plasma Pistol would work because, like manually activating the flashlight, the player is choosing to overcharge the PP.  

52 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

It's sad how there's been a grand total of 1 Halo game to make use of power weapon ammo boxes (Halo 2/2A). 

Making the ammo box an upgrade to the secondary spawn weapon alleviates some of the problems that can arise from things like rocket ammo (can players who don’t have a rocket launcher pick up rocket ammo?).  
 

52 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

is there a unique style of combat that you want to encourage with the cloud alt-fire?

I want to encourage a cadence between moving and shooting where the Plasma Rifle user is trying to close the distance on his enemies as he is firing so that they are within gassing distance when the attack is strongest ie right before the weapon overheats.  

In addition, the Plasma Rifle’s alt-fire is meant to contrast with the AR.  The AR needs to pick up its alt-fire ammo from off the map while the Plasma Rifle automatically generates its alt-fire ammo but that ammo dissipates as the weapon cools.  Easy come, easy go vs have to earn it but powerful once earned.  
 

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How high would the projectile gravity scale be on the OS 1SKing mode?  

Pretty damn high.  Aiming up at a 45 degree angle could fire the projectile from rocks to car on sanc.  
 

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Teleporting the user to PoI sounds overpowered af. Literally makes the gun into a high-tier power weapon. Imagine teleporting into the midst of 3 players mid-setup and catching them off guard.

The extreme projectile drop would limit the teleportation range and players can see the arcing projectile travel.  

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Not to be bothered too much with thematic appeal, but I also think that any alt-fires or primary fires that make use of teleportation would be best reserved for Promethean weaponry given how they're a faction that can teleport.

Yeah, the Boltshot and Sentinel Beam can both toggle to a teleport alt-fire.  The Boltshot relies on a projectile while the Sentinel Beam simply transports the player a short distance in the direction he is facing.  
 

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How would the shield work in Arena?

Well, the Boltshot’s OS Killer projectile also penetrates the Plasma Shield so you can headshot drop an enemy behind his shield if you have a Boltshot.  How do you think the shield should behave in arena?  

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Remember we all argued about halo 5 strafing before it came out, only for it not to matter because aim assist and bullet magnetism were so high?

Something tells me were in for the same shit again.

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10 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Remember we all argued about halo 5 strafing before it came out, only for it not to matter because aim assist and bullet magnetism were so high?

Something tells me were in for the same shit again.

I mean for the most part you can make people miss shots by crouching and jumping in fights. 

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10 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Remember we all argued about halo 5 strafing before it came out, only for it not to matter because aim assist and bullet magnetism were so high?

Something tells me were in for the same shit again.

This alongside automatics that do insane amounts of damage and have excessive range I honestly don’t believe 343 will ever make a projectile based Halo game.

Because if reddit never complains about it then 343 will assume it’s fine so it’ll never get fixed.

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31 minutes ago, thdyingbreed said:

This alongside automatics that do insane amounts of damage and have excessive range I honestly don’t believe 343 will ever make a projectile based Halo game.

Because if reddit never complains about it then 343 will assume it’s fine so it’ll never get fixed.

H3 left a bad taste in peoples minds. 

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

H3 left a bad taste in peoples minds. 

If there ever was any bad taste after Halo 3, it is now long beaten by something much, much worse.

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37 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

If there ever was any bad taste after Halo 3, it is now long beaten by something much, much worse.

I haven't loaded up MCC in months, but I'm seeing the skins on Twitter and Reddit and what the actual fuck? It's like they took all of their leftover concept art, that was too ugly for H4 and H5, and jammed it into H3 MCC for the sake of new content. I mean talk about...

A E S T H E T I C 

PDpDzT2.jpg

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44 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

If there ever was any bad taste after Halo 3, it is now long beaten by something much, much worse.

And that would be? We’re talking about projectile and because of h3 people don’t trust it in halo 

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18 minutes ago, Hully said:

I haven't loaded up MCC in months, but I'm seeing the skins on Twitter and Reddit and what the actual fuck? It's like they took all of their leftover concept art, that was too ugly for H4 and H5, and jammed it into H3 MCC for the sake of new content. I mean talk about...

A E S T H E T I C 

PDpDzT2.jpg

They're all leftovers from Halo Online.

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9 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

And that would be? We’re talking about projectile and because of h3 people don’t trust it in halo 

Thats too fucking bad. Do it anyway.  If its not a shit-tier implementation like Halo 3 was, it will be fine.

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H3 was running on 2007 internet infrastructure  and netcode, on top of having terrible spread and a projectile speed so weird that players couldn't consistently tell you how much to compensate at what range. 

It's 2020 and there's been how many Battlefield games that have released with a much larger network load and projectile bullets? 

Plus, we're talking about this in the context of a single shot utility weapon, which would automatically make the shooting 100x less cryptic (since people only need to account for one shot, not 3 being networked completely independently). 

"People don't like/trust it" is a terrible benchmark to measure any change for Halo. Before anyone on this board ever says anything about the behavior/wants of the general fanbase, I want them to remember that maybe a whole third of the fanbase are campaign only players, and that less than 10% of the leftover population actually understands how Halo is supposed to be played. Watching social players (also over 95% of the multiplayer population) play a single game of CTF will permanently mar your opinion of "muh community". 

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1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

Thats too fucking bad. Do it anyway.  If its not a shit-tier implementation like Halo 3 was, it will be fine.

Well I agree something like apex is my preferred projectile 

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