Halo Infinite Discussion

[Reamis25]

5 minutes ago, Obnokshus said:

would you consider an exaggerated version of Reach's concussion rifle, with greater area of effect and knockback a useful tool or an extremely frustrating one to play against?

Knock back has never been a mechanic I particularly like as that screws up aiming and is basically a guaranteed kill 9/10 times. But stun mechanics aren’t so fun either, because like knock back you can’t do shit. 
people here and other places ask for niche weapons without realizing you’re just going to get something that’s either annoying or it’s something people don’t use often because the encounters necessary to make the weapon effective are slim to none.  The gravity hammer is a neat niche weapon that like sword has a lunge, but can also be used to send a person flying off the map. The brute shot is just a weapon useful or knock back.

look you can’t create a weapon that’s effective+ fun that’s also not frustrating to fight against. Trust me you’re not going to succeed. Especially in the way halo plays. The nube tube, rockets, sniper. None of these are relatively fun to fight against. In halo sniping is just bomb shit easy and because of higher FPS on pc it’s even easier than ever. 

[ShmaltzyLatkes]

3 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

would you consider an exaggerated version of Reach's concussion rifle, with greater area of effect and knockback a useful tool or an extremely frustrating one to play against?

To me, "frustration" only crosses the line if it becomes cheap to use. In most cases, this happens when opposing players have no way to really counter something (or if there is just an accepted premise that the weapon is meant to be all powerful, like Rockets).

I can see a beefed-up Concussion Rifle crossing that line if the focus is on expanding the area of effect rather than the physical knock-back that comes with a direct hit. The best way to make a useful and non-frustrating Concussion Rifle, in my mind, would be to (i) improve the knock-back from a direct/precise enough hit against an opponent (ii) while still allowing players to use the improved knock-back to strategically launch themselves and weapons around the map. Not sure how feasible this is on a programming level, though I'd be shocked if there weren't any ways to separately adjust the radii of effects for offensive harm, self-inflicted harm, and environmental elements. I think this solution effectively makes the rifle a useful tool without rendering it unbeatable in a 1-on-1 battle.

[znot]

Oh shit that reminds me, do any of the halo snipers after Reach have knockback? I never really thought to look.

[Boyo]

Knock-back should require wind-up.  Even a brief charge period before firing would lessen the cheapness of knock back projectiles.  

[Basu]

27 minutes ago, znot said:

Oh shit that reminds me, do any of the halo snipers after Reach have knockback? I never really thought to look.

They have flinch which is 100% worse than knockback. 

[MultiLockOn]

10 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

would you consider an exaggerated version of Reach's concussion rifle, with greater area of effect and knockback a useful tool or an extremely frustrating one to play against?

It was already annoying.

[vembress]

The worst part about stuff like the brute shot and concussion rifle wasn't their knock backs it was the screen VIOLENTLY shaking for no fucking reason making it impossible to aim..

[Mr Grim]

Bro what if the demo they revealed was chief running fast as fuck, mowing down aliens while kicking off walls and air strafing, lobbing grenades while still firing, with all new animation design more reminiscent of modern shooters. No sprinting or climbing, just smooth as fuck shootin and flyin like a maniac. 

Then transition to a stealth section and they debut new stealth oriented mechanics, the return of odsts visor mode for low light areas etc.

Probably would've killed at the reveal. 

[Boyo]

31 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

stealth oriented mechanics

Cloak - crouch and remain stationary to become invisible 

Shotun - alt-fire a flashlight that reveals invisible players 

Sword - alt-fire a thermal scan that reveals recent enemy footprints 

Boltshot - alt-fire a projectile that teleports the player to its point of impact 

Sentinel Beam - alt-fire teleports the player forward a short distance, even through walls 

Spotting Scope - mark targeted enemies with a waypoint (in parts of campaign, use it to call in strikes so you don’t have to reveal yourself) 

Glider - silently travel through the air 

 

I would take it a step further and say that in addition to action and stealth, there should be sections of puzzle solving in campaign as well.  Just as you use stealthy mechanics in stealthy sections, you use puzzle solving mechanics in puzzle sections.  The ability to pick up and move objects, the ability to transform your player model into a shape and size that allows it to enter areas that a biped can’t, the ability to activate switches, the ability to initiate events.  
 

Power Band - pick up, move, and drop objects 

Sphere - transform into a small ball that can roll and jump but not attack 

Relic - toggle two switches or initiate one event 

 

In each campaign area, there is a hidden terminal that, once activated, powers on the Relic (an item the player always carries but can only use once that area’s terminal has been activated).  

[Reamis25]

@MultiLockOn disagree with that much as you want, but most people get pretty frustrated when facing weapons that are just down right near instant kill or has minimal counter.

sniper is piss easy and the only counter is the descope but besides that the weapon locks on for people. 
rockets is easy kill.

shotgun not much to say same thing not much you can do. Weapons are fun to use more than they’re fun to fight against. Sniper was difficult back then, but that was simply because of the 30fps. No one wants to face a weapon they can barely do anything against. 

[Reamis25]

13 hours ago, vembress said:

The worst part about stuff like the brute shot and concussion rifle wasn't their knock backs it was the screen VIOLENTLY shaking for no fucking reason making it impossible to aim..

Yeah that’s what most games do regarding the knock back mechanic and the only game I know of that doesn’t is quake. 

[MultiLockOn]

1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

@MultiLockOn disagree with that much as you want, but most people get pretty frustrated when facing weapons that are just down right near instant kill or has minimal counter.

sniper is piss easy and the only counter is the descope but besides that the weapon locks on for people. 
rockets is easy kill.

shotgun not much to say same thing not much you can do. Weapons are fun to use more than they’re fun to fight against. Sniper was difficult back then, but that was simply because of the 30fps. No one wants to face a weapon they can barely do anything against. 

I downvoted you for your conclusion -

 

"look you can’t create a weapon that’s effective+ fun that’s also not frustrating to fight against"

 

This just isn't true. A weapon is only frustrating to fight against if it's bullshit, it could be as strong as it needs to be so long as it's equally difficult to use. 

The difficult of the sniper had nothing to do with 30 fps it just had lower aim assist. 

 

 The fun comes from engaging with the enemy and outsmarting / outplaying them, weapons are just a vehicle to get there. It's not so much about "I just died to X weapon that was super fun" so much as it is the entire encounter and game is fun, and the times that you LOSE shouldn't be so obnoxious that it takes away from the joy you felt otherwise. 

 

I can lose a smash bros melee match and still have a lot of fun because there wasn't a slew of stupid shit screwing me over constantly. The negatives shouldn't be stronger than the positives. 

 

 

Also if your combat is designed well then fighting against weapons is fun because the counter to weapons are interesting and skillful. 

[Reamis25]

3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

The difficult of the sniper had nothing to do with 30 fps it just had lower aim assist. 

Do you actually believe this? Dude the sniper is piss easy in mcc on all halos, and it’s 100% because of the higher FPS we have available.

im not gonna deny that if they’re skilled to use and counters are good but there’s not many examples of that currently.

[Obnokshus]

Stop

Replying

To Reamis

Please

Ignore and move on

[Shekkles]

On 12/12/2020 at 7:06 AM, Hard Way said:

- A slower sprint, with more stopping power. Sprinting should do less, and be punished more.

I've been thinking about this and sprint can work in Halo (hear me out) if you stop sprinting when shot. Additionally, it should be a very mild speed boost anyway.

Sprint is in Halo for a few reasons but the main one is that most tourist and casual gamers like having a button to press that lets you get from A to B faster than normal. If you are in BTB or Campaign and there is a big open space in front of you, having a button and animation that plays making you get there faster is nice.

But, if it was made an out-of-combat only crutch than it would be fine. Once hit, your character stops sprinting same as descope. Additionally, if the speed boost you get is very mild, it won't break map flow.

Of course I would rather it just go away but it never will so I can see ways to make it work.

[Reamis25]

1 hour ago, Obnokshus said:

Stop

Replying

To Reamis

Please

Ignore and move on

You fail time and time again 

[Reamis25]

30 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I've been thinking about this and sprint can work in Halo (hear me out) if you stop sprinting when shot. Additionally, it should be a very mild speed boost anyway.

Sprint is in Halo for a few reasons but the main one is that most tourist and casual gamers like having a button to press that lets you get from A to B faster than normal. If you are in BTB or Campaign and there is a big open space in front of you, having a button and animation that plays making you get there faster is nice.

But, if it was made an out-of-combat only crutch than it would be fine. Once hit, your character stops sprinting same as descope. Additionally, if the speed boost you get is very mild, it won't break map flow.

Of course I would rather it just go away but it never will so I can see ways to make it work.

This actually was a thing in h5 with sprint buy only if they started their sprint unfortunately if you picked up full speed you wouldn’t stop, but it was null n void because of thrust.

[MultiLockOn]

1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

Do you actually believe this? Dude the sniper is piss easy in mcc on all halos, and it’s 100% because of the higher FPS we have available.

im not gonna deny that if they’re skilled to use and counters are good but there’s not many examples of that currently.

You need to think for like 4 seconds before you make a post.  Sniping in Destiny (on console as well) is piss easy and it's 30 fps.  Sniping in MCC at 120 FPS with a controller is harder in CE, why is that.  Aim assist.  Do you actually think if I gave you 600 fps the gun would become proportionately easier to shoot. The H5 sniper and the CE sniper are the same strength, both kill in 1 head, 2 body.  One is a thousand times more annoying to die to because it's easy.  You rarely get frustrated when you're killed or beaten by someone who did something very difficult to accomplish it.  The frustration comes from being cheated, knowing you're a better player and you unfairly died when you shouldn't have, in this case it's to a weapon that aims itself (everything in H5),

 

I agree it's actually difficult to give an example of a weapon that's fun to actively fight against because you're right; there aren't many good examples because games generally blow.  The best example I can give is dueling an enemy in sekiro where you sit there and actually have a back and forth sword fight.  Obviously that's a single player game but there's no reason you couldn't take those same mechanics and translate them to MP, or more importantly - the principles.  A skill based weapon should probably have an equally skill based counter.

[Reamis25]

2 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Sniping in MCC at 120 FPS with a controller is harder in CE,

Is it really? I don’t believe that as when I pick that weapon up sniping is easy AF. And most people when they play a game at higher FPS they find they can aim a lot easier. A smoother game is always easier to play. 

[Boyo]

4 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

A skill based weapon should probably have an equally skill based counter.

RRX

[OG Nick]

Playing 4v4 or 8v8 social CE and sniping against people who don't 1) know how to lead or 2) walk in a straight line doesn't count as being easy AF

[_Synapse]

I don't want sprint to exist in any capacity. Halo's gameplay is about exerting as much map presence as possible on generally-close quarters maps. A speed boost as low as 10% has huge implications in the broader context of contesting areas, pursuing kills, flag runs, contesting power items, etc. It's still obnoxious and clunky. 

If we want to give movement a larger skillgap, we can do so without gimping everybody by default and making a huge slew of secondary problems. Incline jumps, higher player traction, ghost-ledging, crouch jumping, bum jumping, etc are all valid examples of how you can do this. 

Even then, none of these are unconditionally good. 50 pathing routes between two parts of a map introduces chaos and a shit ton of broken LoS. 

The only advanced movement abilites that aren't overly obnoxious or harmful would be slide and hover. However, like I already said, they're a mild positive at best, and a hindrance at worst. 

There's no reason for sprint to exist other than for people who don't understand how Halo is played above a social slayer level. It only exists to appeal to the general playerbase of FPS games, and there's more than enough ways to accomplish that. 

I've said this a billion times already. Go boot up Halo 3 MCC on your PC, turn the movement speed up to 150%, turn the FOV to 100, and change the strafe acceleration values via Assembly. It will feel anything but slow. 

"But what about casual players?" 

Casual players don't care whether the game has sprint or not, they care about whether the game feels good to play. It's why you don't see people asking for sprint in the DOOM reboots (leaving aside all the other ridiculous stuff, which can also be fixed pretty easily). 

[Reamis25]

14 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Playing 4v4 or 8v8 social CE and sniping against people who don't 1) know how to lead or 2) walk in a straight line doesn't count as being easy AF

Dude I’ve played hardcore ce and done that to guys who knew what they were doing. I’m not bad at halo unlike the majority of y’all. Though I do suck at ce, Hell The people who play social 4s in ce anyway are usually the ce try Hards who’re sweaty AF.

[znot]

23 minutes ago, Boyo said:

RRX

Does anyone find it ironic how we bitched about boltshot in h4 being a one hit kill but meanwhile in h2 we were pretty much walking around with a bxrltshot.

 

Granted BXR is way harder but loll yeah as I type this I realize the massive difference in skill required between the two. 

[ShmaltzyLatkes]

1 minute ago, znot said:

Does anyone find it ironic how we bitched about boltshot in h4 being a one hit kill but meanwhile in h2 we were pretty much walking around with a bxrltshot.

 

Granted BXR is way harder but loll yeah as I type this I realize the massive difference in skill required between the two. 

Wasn't there the quick-reload glitch for the Boltshot too?

Edit: Wow, this is a throwback and a half.