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Halo Infinite Discussion

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You really understood the overall gaming landscape for being 6 years old at the time.  

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Just the fact mcc h3 couldn’t pop off let’s me know the gameplay isn’t enough to really get the population rolling for halo. Sure streamers like summit did play a part though 

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

The competition of today isn’t comparable to the lack of back then. 

Yes, it was. You're trying to ignore it because it's inconvenient to your argument. 

Again, Halo's population tanked when they started modeling the gameplay after trends, and it has never recovered under the same model. 

If modern halo's gameplay was as good as classic halo, then modern halo would be able to retain a playerbase of a similar size without being free to play. 

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

You really understood the overall gaming landscape for being 6 years old at the time.  

I like to read. You can find out a lot of information by simply googling everything. 

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3 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

They’re two different genres why would I want to compare them? 

Because they are both competing for people that play video games? 

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

I like to read. You can find out a lot of information by simply googling everything. 

So you’re just regurgitating other peoples opinions and have no original thoughts on the matter?  Thanks for sharing.  

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3 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

There is no proof the gameplay is what killed these games. In h4 it was the cod elements of loadouts, kill streaks and basically no skill gap balance. 
H5 gets a lot of praise for its multiplayer and finding games wasn’t a hassle a few years ago. But it had the aiming problem which even casual players noticed but didn’t know what it was. One complaint I did see was how competitive the game felt. If a game doesn’t feel casual friendly but holds a unique skill gap between good and bad players it won’t do so hot. 
Halo infinite has a very good chance of holding a stable population and it being free is it’s best benefactor. And when streamers play it and hopefully have a good opinion on the game that’ll increase it’s population even greater. Hell I’d love it if m$ would release infinite for ps5 and switch with full cross play.

No proof it was gameplay that killed these games....

 

Lists multiple aspects of gameplay that killed these games....

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4 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Just the fact mcc h3 couldn’t pop off let’s me know the gameplay isn’t enough to really get the population rolling for halo. Sure streamers like summit did play a part though 

Halo 3 had broken hit reg and held a pretty solid population on Steam longer than any other MCC release did. 

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1 minute ago, Aphex Twin said:

Because they are both competing for people that play video games? 

Ok two different genres will attract different players though. Many people who played melee or smash in general played halo as well. Halo had a lot of fun things to do but it’s gameplay isn’t what set it off. I wouldn’t say the gameplay trend following ruined halo besides h4. But h5 that games population didn’t start to die until h5 lost its game support. 

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5 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

No proof it was gameplay that killed these games....

 

Lists multiple aspects of gameplay that killed these games....

By proof I need data to back it up. Hell looking at the communities that have been vocal about halo over the years the gameplay issues are usually regarding stuff that doesn’t talk about say sprint. In reach it was bloom and armor lock. In h4 it was kill streaks and custom loadouts, h5 was a lack of content at launch and a terrible campaign but it’s multiplayer received a lot of praise regardless of personal thoughts on the game you may possess. Hell h5 been getting nothing but positives for its mobility and people only disliked pound and charge 

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2 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Just the fact mcc h3 couldn’t pop off let’s me know the gameplay isn’t enough...

Yes, a remastered version of a game from 2007 has a smaller playerbase vs giant AAA competitors with better graphics and huge marketing budgets.

Also, H3 is the pinnacle of the slow/weak feeling you say modern gamers have for classic halo because the killtimes are too long in that game.

You agreed that people dont like putting 4-5 shots into a guy only for them to sprint away. In a similar sense, putting 4-5 shots into an opponent with your BR only to have them strongside to safety (or use a get out of jail free card like bubble shield or health regen) due to random spread forcing your shots to miss despite your aim being on point has not aged well. H3 has honestly aged the worst amongst the OG trilogy, and it's the closest classic halo game to modern halo in terms of slow gameplay. Your argument doesn't hold up in this example.

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21 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Classic Halo developer logic; increase aim assists and slow down strafe, which mean more people are landing shots more frequently, so to "balance" that out, Bungie decided to increase kill times rather than address the core issue of shooting skill. 

No doubt post-CE Halos would play better with a lower time to kill, but do you really think less aim assist would have improved them? Made them more popular?

 

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

You know I’d rather shine a more positive note regarding infinite in stead of coming to the conclusion it’ll fail. @Aphex Twin 

Then go be with the sheep on Waypoint and Reddit. 

Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 all deserved to fail. Infinite deserves the same. 

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

By proof I need data to back it up. Hell looking at the communities that have been vocal about halo over the years the gameplay issues are usually regarding stuff that doesn’t talk about say sprint. In reach it was bloom and armor lock. In h4 it was kill streaks and custom loadouts, h5 was a lack of content at launch and a terrible campaign but it’s multiplayer received a lot of praise regardless of personal thoughts on the game you may possess. Hell h5 been getting nothing but positives for its mobility and people only disliked pound and charge 

Most people don't talk about their dissatisfaction with a game on the Internet, much less engage in self-reflection to ascertain why they might dislike a game. All we have to go off of is what we can infer from the oddly conspicuous start of Halo's population decline right after the game shifted away from its distinctive style.

What can we infer from the fact that H5, on its best day, couldn't come close to the same figures H3 was pulling toward the end of its lifecycle, despite an exponentially larger market of consumers? Occam's Razor tells us its that people don't like the game as much.

Sure, you can go into changing tastes of the market, yada yada, but you have no true comparison to make, as a classic Halo game hasn't been released with modern graphical fidelity to adequately compare its performance against H5. All we have to go off of are the population figures, and they tell a very compelling story.

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Just now, Aphex Twin said:

Yes, a remastered version of a game from 2007 has a smaller playerbase vs giant AAA competitors with better graphics and huge marketing budgets.

Also, H3 is the pinnacle of the slow/weak feeling you say modern gamers have for classic halo because the killtimes are too long in that game.

You agreed that people dont like putting 4-5 shots into a guy only for them to sprint away. In a similar sense, putting 4-5 shots into an opponent with your BR only to have them strongside to safety (or use a get out of jail free card like bubble shield or health regen) due to random spread forcing your shots to miss despite your aim being on point has not aged well. H3 has honestly aged the worst amongst the OG trilogy, and it's the closest classic halo game to modern halo in terms of slow gameplay. Your argument doesn't hold up in this example.

No one cares if someone gets away by bubble or regen because those are game mechanics. Spread is rng which is out of your control so yeah. But people’s gripe about halo 3 is how slow it feels. People don’t praise h1 for its fast paced gameplay because honestly everyone hates its spawn system except the 2v2 hardcore players. What about h2? Oh why you bringing up graphics I thought gameplay was what made these pop off? 

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1 minute ago, Aphex Twin said:

Then go be with the sheep on Waypoint and Reddit. 

Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 all deserved to fail. Infinite deserves the same. 

Why does it deserve to fail exactly? 

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2 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

ure, you can go into changing tastes of the market, yada yada, but you have no true comparison to make, as a classic Halo game hasn't been released with modern graphical fidelity to adequately compare its performance against H5. All we have to go off of are the population figures, and they tell a very compelling story.

This is technically not true if we look at h2a but I won’t use that. Heck’s one of the key reasons I believe infinite won’t fail is because it’s free. People aren’t going to permanently leave halo if they do leave. People will come back to a free to play game if it gets some update that makes it better. 

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

But people’s gripe about halo 3 is how slow it feels.

Same as modern halo. 

Why am I bringing up 10+ year old graphics as a reason why a 2007 remaster from 2014 & a botched launch wont compete as well against modern AAA titles with huge marketing budgets? 

You cant possibly be this stupid. 

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8 minutes ago, potetr said:

No doubt post-CE Halos would play better with a lower time to kill, but do you really think less aim assist would have improved them? Made them more popular?

 

The point you touch on here is what causes me to believe that the role of the utility weapon needs to be split into two weapons, a Magnum and a BR, one comp utility and one social utility.  The Magnum is a semi automatic, projectile weapon with a quick kill time.  The BR is a burst fire, hitscan weapon with a longer kill time.  The way you make the Magnum a “sidearm” is not with a longer base kill time like the Sidekick but with less aim assist and the requirement of leading ranged targets, which naturally leads to longer kill times anyway.  

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4 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

The gameplay is bad.

Well that’s your opinion man. 

 

4 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Same as modern halo. 

Why am I bringing up 10+ year old graphics as a reason why a 2007 remaster from 2014 & a botched launch wont compete as well against modern AAA titles with huge marketing budgets? 

You cant possibly be this stupid. 

Dude no one ever says modern halo is slow or at least h5. You’re stupid AF if you consider that game slow. 

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18 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

By proof I need data to back it up. Hell looking at the communities that have been vocal about halo over the years the gameplay issues are usually regarding stuff that doesn’t talk about say sprint. In reach it was bloom and armor lock. In h4 it was kill streaks and custom loadouts, h5 was a lack of content at launch and a terrible campaign but it’s multiplayer received a lot of praise regardless of personal thoughts on the game you may possess.

The praise that Halo 5's multiplayer got boiled down to "Well its not as shit-tier as Halo 4 and the utility shoots straight". That's not exactly glowing. Lack of content IS a gameplay problem.

Until 343 runs large-scale surveys of lapsed Halo players to figure out why they stopped playing and release it to the public the best "proof" we have is the changes that have been made to the franchise since Halo 3 and teh continual drop-off of player retention.  Halo 5 had a slight bump due to what i said before, but again not exactly enough to affirm its quality.

 

Requiring the level of "data" that is simply unavailable to make certain inferences is a 343-level cop out to make any decision you want.

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

Dude no one ever says modern halo is slow or at least h5. 

They drop H5 before coming to that realization. 

The game's population is bad because the game is too slow. You agreed earlier, not sure why you're backtracking. 

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