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Halo Infinite Discussion

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I have a theory that this issue varies in severity based on the lifespan of the individual franchise. When I look back and look around I notice that SBMM is implemented and complained about the most in series where people have been playing for years and years so the gap between bad players and dedicated players is large and the population of the average dedicated or once dedicated player is larger than you might think so there are a lot more pub stomp lobbies and parties than you'd see in a new game

Nobody gave a shit about any of this in older CoDs or social Halo a decade or more ago. People just had fun. Recently it just just feels like there are more people taking things seriously and creating scenarios where new casual players are getting crushed enough that its become a problem. That might just be people talking about it though and the problem isn't really a problem and it was always the same with the real difference being that people focus on it now

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the idea that some players would never be confronted, destroyed, and subsequently walk away with the impression they want to improve isn't shared by the majority of a playerbase doesn't sit well with me, but the market trends certainly suggest this is the case. 

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8 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Well if you want a typical social tdm and what not then your friends will just get shit on and that’s all that can be said/

Or, or, they could fix it, which is the point of the conversation you chose to participate in. Jfc
It's not like it's some wild idea either. It's already been done. It was better. Now it's worse. Just change it back. This isn't hard.

Edit: SBMM in social is 100% unnecessary. Just let anyone match anyone. Searching with a stack? Give the game one full minute to try to match you with another stack. After that? Fuck it. It's social. Let it be the wild west. Stop trying to control it. That's literally what ranked is for. They're creating this problem where there's nowhere to just have a silly game with a wide range of skills and playstyles. People can't even play with their friends in an unranked mode. That's fucking ridiculous. Just get rid of it.

The only thing that needs to be done with stacks of pubstompers is make them pay with their time. They're either going to play another stack, or they're going to have to search longer than everyone else, and let those kids they just skull-fucked get into a different game.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Or, or, they could fix it, which is the point of the conversation you chose to participate in. Jfc
It's not like it's some wild idea either. It's already been done. It was better. Now it's worse. Just change it back. This isn't hard.

Edit: SBMM in social is 100% unnecessary. Just let anyone match anyone. Searching with a stack? Give the game one full minute to try to match you with another stack. After that? Fuck it. It's social. Let it be the wild west. Stop trying to control it. That's literally what ranked is for. They're creating this problem where there's nowhere to just have a silly game with a wide range of skills and playstyles. People can't even play with their friends in an unranked mode. That's fucking ridiculous. Just get rid of it.

The only thing that needs to be done with stacks of pubstompers is make them pay with their time. They're either going to play another stack, or they're going to have to search longer than everyone else, and let those kids they just skull-fucked get into a different game.

I mean I only said that because the original complaint is how someone can’t even search with IRL friends and enjoy themselves. SBMM has killed mm for them. I’ll agree SBMM should go but we’re not exactly going to get support if the people SBMM was invented for our the only ones bitching. 

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19 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

I can relate to that. It's always nice to take some really shitty friends into matchmaking and just fuck around. Having to worry about your buddy getting absolutely massacred sucks. Is there not a gamemode for that now or something? 

Since SBMM was implemented not really. We mitigate it by playing Demolition, which has a lower population (and is my favorite CoD gamemode anyways, so win win), but it's still there.

17 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

CoD is just really behind on how to handle ranked vs social matchmaking because honestly they just really fucked up any ranked modes they had for basically forever. This is a new problem for them so they're probably scrambling to offer an alternative atm

It's ironic given BO2 mastered this problem 8 years ago.

16 hours ago, Basu said:

Man I remember teaming up with some decent dudes in CoD4 and never losing a single game of HQ, similarly in MW2 or BO1. I dont know when it happened, because I skipped some games but by AW there was definitely something going on with SBMM (or maybe everyone just became a god in the meantime?). BO3 was even worse in that regard, could legit not play it with IRL friends.

To me it just doesnt make sense to design a game with inherently random and casual elements such as killstreaks, mines, wallhacks etc. but then slap on tight SBMM on top to force some kind of balance. It just creates a really frustrating experience, because as Multi says, the game just doesnt play well at a high level unless you take out the majorty of elements in the sandbox (the same is true for modern Halos, no surprise there). This clash between game settings and matchmaking parameters is the source of people's frustrations, not SBMM itself.

Also to repeat what I posted previously: I think wide gaps between players are completely fine in unranked playlists, MM should just try to balance the teams against each other. In ranked you don't want a bunch of 45s and 10s in the same lobby, but in social that is completely fine as long as the teams aren't stacked.

I'm okay with some SBMM, but it should be there to keep humans larping as meatsims away from people with opposable thumbs, not causing the equivalent of gamebattles every match.

11 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Yeah it’s called infection 

230114_908223010.jpg

9 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Wide skill differential in one team is always going to be an issue, no matter what. Best the game can do is match the skill differential on the enemy team as well. 

 

I'm talking about the fact that COD at a high level is not enjoyable or a skillful experience. Of course you find winning 47 games straight fun lmao that's ridiculous. Whether or not you deserved that win streak is another question. There shouldn't be anything wrong with competing with someone at your level if the game is well designed. But it's not, it's exactly how you described it. People just sit back and laser you. I wouldn't describe COD as "aggressive"in a million years. 

To clarify, on paper, we did not deserve to win all 47 of those games. We won some games by literally throwing bodies on points and capping them in ugly fashion out of desire to keep the streak alive.  

I don't have any issue playing people on my level. My friends, who are 100% not on my level, have serious issues with playing the people on my level SBMM populates the other team with, because it heavily weights off of the best player and there's a wide gap between top 2% players and where my friends hang.

Truly high level CoD, as in MLG/CWL/CDL rulesets is actually surprisingly fun as long as you can get everyone to agree to follow the rules.

Maybe it's just the fact that I play nothing but Demo, Hardpoint, CTF and HQ, but I never feel like CoD is campy for the most part. I certainly don't play it campy.

7 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

CoD can probably get around this because teams in social are far larger, but it would be really hard to introduce a "balance the teams, not the search" type of system in Halo outside of BTB. No one wants to search with friends just to have the game split your party onto separate teams to balance the lobby.

Amusingly enough, going into to social slayer in Halo 3 with 5 players and having a random person be on the other team was actually pretty fun.

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It's still Halo 5, but man having sound design that sounds good makes a world of difference. 

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every once in a while in a major media production i'll catch the soundbyte of combat evolved's winter ambience howl, or the covenant door locking mechanism. so satisfying to hear work propagate decades later. no clutter, no plastic. 

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That video reminds me that if Halo 5 looked like Halo and sounded like Halo it might sit differently in my head.

2 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

Just the absence of clutter/useless sound effects/voiceovers makes it 90 times better. There's so much comfort in the silences.

I find this is the same as 343 adding curves to every single structure.

WOWWEEE LOOK BONNIE WE CAN TRIPLE THE POLYGON COUNT! LET'S PUT THE ENTIRE RENDER BUDGET MAKING CORNERS INTO CURVES.

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

That video reminds me that if Halo 5 looked like Halo and sounded like Halo it might sit differently in my head.

I find this is the same as 343 adding curves to every single structure.

WOWWEEE LOOK BONNIE WE CAN TRIPLE THE POLYGON COUNT! LET'S PUT THE ENTIRE RENDER BUDGET MAKING CORNERS INTO CURVES.

I still maintain that most of their Halo 4 models weren't too bad. it's the textures that were the problem. Halo 4 even had good covenant ART style. Halo 5 is where it all took a nose dive.

this is probably the only good example I can give

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there's a few other examples but I'm genuinely curious how 343's halo games would look with Bungie's textures overlaid.  or just if 343 was more authentic with their textures. doesn't have to be bungie's.

Which brings up another thing I beat to death with 343's vs bungie's forerunner. The amount of detail packed into Bungie's textures were insane. All these ornate decorations within the pieces. 

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But it's funny how 343 could HALVE the poly count if they just got decent texture artists/material artists. FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT.

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Played Halo 5 again and holy.. Take everything about Halo 5 and throw it out the window. Hate everything about it. The "smartscoping", the aiming, the maps, the movement, the sounds, the weapons.. All trash. It's just a bunch of kids thrusting/clambering all over the maps with 20 floors and endless windows making aiming a mess. I'll take another Halo 4 and even Halo Reach before Halo 5 because at least in those games people aren't zooming around the map clambering away in windows 24/7. I can confidently say that Halo 5 is the worst game in the franchise by far and its not even close. I hope Infinite is nothing like Halo 5. 

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1 hour ago, Avenger said:

Played Halo 5 again and holy.. Take everything about Halo 5 and throw it out the window. Hate everything about it. The "smartscoping", the aiming, the maps, the movement, the sounds, the weapons.. All trash. It's just a bunch of kids thrusting/clambering all over the maps with 20 floors and endless windows making aiming a mess. I'll take another Halo 4 and even Halo Reach before Halo 5 because at least in those games people aren't zooming around the map clambering away in windows 24/7. I can confidently say that Halo 5 is the worst game in the franchise by far and its not even close. I hope Infinite is nothing like Halo 5. 

I feel like the only good part of Halo 5 is that feeling you get when you actually outshoot somebody in a Magnum duel. Since the aim assist isn't so high that 1v1s will just feel like a game of "Who Shot First?". Though, thats provided that your opponent cant just thrust behind cover and regain their shields instantly.

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I couldn’t give less of a fuck about halo infinite, but as a fan of good foley I find these videos cool. I at least have confidence the sound will be good in h6.

 

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Is it unethical for 343 to exploit the grotesque traits that are inhumanely selected for in pug breeds?  

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been hearing a lot of infinite rumors about the Battle Royale game mode, was hoping to find some conversation about it here but there doesn't seem to be much. Anyone mind filling me in on everything going on? 

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3 hours ago, soFireFly said:

been hearing a lot of infinite rumors about the Battle Royale game mode, was hoping to find some conversation about it here but there doesn't seem to be much. Anyone mind filling me in on everything going on? 

Some video games news website posted a dumb article about a rumored Halo Infinite Battle Royale and release date

Ske7ch comes out a little later and says that everything is completely unfounded

New strategy:

 

1) Make up completely unsubstantiated rumors surrounding key information (Halo Infinite has a 4SK utility, Halo Infinite features map veto, etc).

2) Make them look as credible as possible

3) Wait for them to circulate as widely as possible

4) 343i have to confirm or deny to stop people from being misled

5) Profit

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On 11/29/2020 at 11:33 PM, AlphaBenson said:

I feel like the only good part of Halo 5 is that feeling you get when you actually outshoot somebody in a Magnum duel. Since the aim assist isn't so high that 1v1s will just feel like a game of "Who Shot First?". Though, thats provided that your opponent cant just thrust behind cover and regain their shields instantly.

This actually felt great on PC because controller aiming functioned properly on PC (while ironically, mouse aiming on H5 PC was awful). I genuinely hope in Infinite they realize that their brand new, ground breaking, anti-squirrly aim implementation was awful and go back to what's worked since 2001. 

Mechanically speaking, Halo 4 and Halo 2 Anniversary probably had the best aiming mechanics. If there's ONE thing you can take from Halo 4, as terrible as the game was, the aiming felt solid. Whoever said it earlier was spot on. I'd take Halo 4 with all the nonsense any day of the week over Halo 5 because at the very least I can shoot the other players and everything is consistent.

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22 minutes ago, -DeucEy- said:

Whoever said it earlier was spot on. I'd take Halo 4 with all the nonsense any day of the week over Halo 5 because at the very least I can shoot the other players and everything is consistent.

That was me. H4 honestly had the best aiming and it makes me curious how a game like h5 would feel if it had that aiming. H5 pc does feel good but it still has the problem of a form of stiffness that h5 aiming naturally is. H5 beta had the aiming style of h4 but they changed it for a dumb reason(ghost). They believed aiming at a distance was difficult when this was true but not because of the aiming. The forced flinch and vibration when shooting would fuck anyone up. From what I could tell from infinite gameplay it seems we’re going to have h4 aiming style which is a good thing. 

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If you think about it, Halo perfectly supports mini-royale but would be ruined if they made it 100 players like a normal royale.

16-24 players. ODST drop pod in. Start with magnum. Weapons on map. Tier 3 weapons (sniper/rockets/sword) drop in via the weapon tubes in Halo 2 with a big fat icon on top of it. Circle (The guardians) closes in quickly.

Games last 10 minutes max.

Now that would be a game mode I could get behind because it would basically be FFA on crack. If they try and make larger player count I don't think it would match Halo's formula (not that 343 would know about that) but also it wouldn't offer anything unique, whereas having a tight, ultra-fast BR mode would actually be sick.

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I agree, of all games with a tacked on Battle Royale, Halo's would probably be good, realtively speaking. The objective in a BR is still to survive, not to kill though. It's a flawed gamemode.

 

Speaking of game modes, why the hell isn't Gun Game in halo?

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4 minutes ago, potetr said:

Speaking of game modes, why the hell isn't Gun Game in halo?

Gun Game and Sharp Shooter were modded into Halo 4 during the Prop Hunt era but I do agree that Halo is slacking on the fun custom game front.  

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33 minutes ago, potetr said:

I agree, of all games with a tacked on Battle Royale, Halo's would probably be good, realtively speaking. The objective in a BR is still to survive, not to kill though. It's a flawed gamemode.

 

Speaking of game modes, why the hell isn't Gun Game in halo?

You still must do both. It’s not flawed. There’s a variety of play styles and it creates such an intense environment. Winning is so satisfying. 

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5 hours ago, Boyo said:

Gun Game and Sharp Shooter were modded into Halo 4 during the Prop Hunt era but I do agree that Halo is slacking on the fun custom game front.  

This is where innovations should be. UI/forge/custom games/server browser/AI/game modes.

But nah. Let's break the core loop and release without feature parity of previous titles.

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