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Halo Infinite Discussion

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16 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Ok from a game stand point if you don’t listen to any terminals then you won’t understand halo 4s story. But I’ll ask did you understand halo 2&3s by playing beyond the simple moments of arbiters revenge and what not? Humanity trying to win the war and survive extinction? 

Outside stuff like terminals, books, etc definitely provides more information, but I played CE and H2 campaigns when I was like, 11 years old and there wasn't anything that I didn't know that also took away from the story. Maybe it made more sense that the covenant was mostly "aliens" so like, I didn't really need to know the motive as to why they were trying to kill humanity. I didn't know anything about what "The Arbiter" really meant, but it seemed as a unique title that was meant for an Elite to go on the most dangerous missions, and if/when they died it would be a worthy sacrifice. Probably the most confusing thing to me, playing it for the first time, was how fast the covenant turned on the Elites. 

Bungie's games: The game tells the story. Outside media helps explain more details

343 games: Outside media is required to understand the game's story

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18 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Ok from a game stand point if you don’t listen to any terminals then you won’t understand halo 4s story. But I’ll ask did you understand halo 2&3s by playing beyond the simple moments of arbiters revenge and what not? Humanity trying to win the war and survive extinction? 

Um, yes? it was all pretty straightforward. Humanity's survival, covenant faction split between believers in the great journey and not. it was all well encapsulated.

17 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I mean they still leave out plenty of key details. In h4 a four runner returns and wants to destroy humanity. The key reason peoooe didn’t understand shit, was because deep down no one knew shit about four runners from the games, except they created the rings to kill the flood and they were an advanced species. 

So instead of exploring that in the next game and added to the game canon naturally over time, they created a game that required prior knowledge from a multitude of non-game sources that maybe 5% of the player base actually had.  That's shit storytelling.

 

Honestly, 343 should retcon Halo 5, then make like the MCU and create the Halo Game Universe.  It can draw from the EU stuff if it makes sense, but is in itself a separate entity.  How they pulled from the EU with Halo 4+ didn't really make any sense to the player.

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Spartan Commander

 

Armor Enhancement - Bandolier - Magnum sidearm has a bottomless clip 

Commander Ability - Radar - HUD widget indicates relative position of nearby, fast-moving enemies 

 

What ramifications would removing radar from the majority of Halo’s gamemodes have?  What purpose would crouch serve in a post-radar Halo?  

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Lore nerd in me coming out:

HCE, H2, H3, ODST, and even Reach were all brilliant cinematically not because of their stories or characters, but because of how brilliant their world-building and faction-building was, and how they combined otherwise simple aesthetics and developed them into something endlessly fascinating. 

HCE alone made the Covenant, Flood, Forerunners, and even humanity so mysterious and intriguing that the player WANTED to know more. Hell, everything in that game would blueball you. How was the UNSC defending against the Covenant on Halo? What did Halo really do? What were the Flood? What were the Covenant? Who were the Forerunners? How screwed was Humanity? 

H2 came along and answered several questions, while also tripling the depth of the Halo universe by developing the Covenant with inter-species and intra-species political tensions, developing the history of the Halos with the Quarantine Zone on Delta Halo, and showing what state humanity was really in. Even despite this, it still did what HCE did, even more brilliantly: What was the history of the Covenant species? How did their societies and customs differ? What were the prophets' true motivations? If the Flood was this pragmatic, what else had it done? What had happened on Delta Halo? What was the situation on High Charity? 

H3 did things a bit differently but still further developed the Halo universe. The Human-Covenant war had ended, with both factions left battered and beaten. The Flood was stopped, at least for the time being. The Master Chief had reached the beautifully poetic climax of his character arc: his only responsibility was to serve humanity and protect it. With the end of the war, he was now no longer needed, and he went into cryosleep waiting for when the world would need him again. 

Reach gave you beautiful aesthetics of despair and defeat after investing you in the location, then reminded you that all the sacrifices that took place over the course of the game were not in vain. 

 

It wasn't just that, but Halo games had grounded-in-the-context-of-the-story large scale events always taking place, which really did make the Halo universe feel much more complex and interesting. As I already said, the battle of Alpha Halo, the battle of Reach, the battle of Delta Halo, the violent self-destruction of the Covenant at Delta Halo and the fleet battle surrounding it, the battle of Earth, and the battle of the Ark are just a few among countless events that felt legitimately interesting. 

342 Halos don't have any of that for me. The nu-factions are so soullessly bland and uninteresting that it sucks any fun out of the cinematic aspect of the games. Events that take place in the games feel so weirdly contrived, like a shitty Marvel movie. 

It ultimately comes down to approach. Bungie made you the vessel, and poured just about every damn thing they could into you, and it worked beautifully. The events, locations, characters, factions, and every other aspect of the games were written to be interesting. 

342 want you to look at the vessel with a magnifying glass and pretend that the scratches on it's side are some complex ancient language. Instead of getting to observe the collapse of an immensely powerful Covenant city at the hands of political self-destruction and the unrelenting might of the Flood, you get to watch Halo 3's Cortana moments except 5 times as obnoxious. 

I'd be less harsh if 342 could actually write interesting characters, but they can't. The actual characters themselves are barely any deeper than they were when Bungie wrote them, lack any of the subtlety, and just feel like shittier versions of book characters. 

I'll take back everything I say about 342's story writing if they bring back Eric Nylund, btw. 

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I don't appreciate the lack of New Mombasa and ODST in your little essay there, Synapse. Gonna have to give you a B- for that.

It's honestly genius how ODST incorporates an ensemble cast while also realizing that Halo is at its best when its one lone soldier against the world. Not being a Spartan, AND having multiple characters really allowed Bungie to give us an avatar to inhabit, but also actual characters who were allowed to express themselves and have personal goals outside of stopping the galaxy from exploding. Piecing together the story bit by bit, potentially even out of order if you realize you can do so, is a great way to keep the series fresh. I remember eagerly searching for the next clue after NMPD HQ, desperate to see if Romeo survives his injury or not. Or just blowing off the story entirely to search for as many audio logs as possible to unravel the parallel mystery of what happened to New Mombasa, and who Vergil even is.

Which is why I'll never forgive New Blood for insisting that Buck never proposed to Dare, that Mickey would just turn traitor, and that Rookie died just so Buck would have an excuse to be in Halo 5. Though its double funny when you read Bad Blood, and its just Buck leaving Osiris and reforming the ODST gang, including Mickey being forgiven for betraying Buck. Because fans hated Halo 5, and 343 started backpedaling hard.

This is honestly a big reason why its super hard to give a shit about 343's story. It was all too clear that all extended media between Halo 4 and 5 was only made to explain and hype up Halo 5, and not because the authors actually had a story to tell in the Halo Universe. And we can clearly see with Infinite how 343 is willing to throw everything in the garbage bin and start over if their original vision doesn't pan out. Infinite wants you to forget Halo 5, just like how Halo 5 wants you to forget what happened in Halo 4. Just like how Halo 4 wants you to forget what happened in Halo 3. Halo's universe has always been fictional, but 343's constant course adjustment makes it hard to forget that fact.

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13 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Reach gave you beautiful aesthetics of despair and defeat after investing you in the location, then reminded you that all the sacrifices that took place over the course of the game were not in vain. 

Reach had the best goddamn cinematography ever... I think they learned after ODST. Apparently the whole point of Reach's Camera angles were to see from Auntie Dot's perspective. Almost like recaptured war footage.

 

this is probably my favorite shot/cutscene

 

 

 

 

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Before an Invasion match begins, each team fights a quick ffa among themselves.  Winner spawns as the Commander.  Second and Third place spawn as his officers.  

To spawn with a precision weapon on a Spartan team, you need to place in the top third (3/9) of the ffa, otherwise its AR starts for you.  All is not lost though.  AR users can pick up Railgun rounds and alt-fire 1sk projectiles.  
 

The ffa is BR/Magnum starts so, naturally, the winners should be suited to spawning with them.  The players who are better with precision weapons get to spawn with them.  

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12 hours ago, AlphaBenson said:

I don't appreciate the lack of New Mombasa and ODST in your little essay there, Synapse. Gonna have to give you a B- for that.

It's honestly genius how ODST incorporates an ensemble cast while also realizing that Halo is at its best when its one lone soldier against the world. Not being a Spartan, AND having multiple characters really allowed Bungie to give us an avatar to inhabit, but also actual characters who were allowed to express themselves and have personal goals outside of stopping the galaxy from exploding. Piecing together the story bit by bit, potentially even out of order if you realize you can do so, is a great way to keep the series fresh. I remember eagerly searching for the next clue after NMPD HQ, desperate to see if Romeo survives his injury or not. Or just blowing off the story entirely to search for as many audio logs as possible to unravel the parallel mystery of what happened to New Mombasa, and who Vergil even is.

Which is why I'll never forgive New Blood for insisting that Buck never proposed to Dare, that Mickey would just turn traitor, and that Rookie died just so Buck would have an excuse to be in Halo 5. Though its double funny when you read Bad Blood, and its just Buck leaving Osiris and reforming the ODST gang, including Mickey being forgiven for betraying Buck. Because fans hated Halo 5, and 343 started backpedaling hard.

This is honestly a big reason why its super hard to give a shit about 343's story. It was all too clear that all extended media between Halo 4 and 5 was only made to explain and hype up Halo 5, and not because the authors actually had a story to tell in the Halo Universe. And we can clearly see with Infinite how 343 is willing to throw everything in the garbage bin and start over if their original vision doesn't pan out. Infinite wants you to forget Halo 5, just like how Halo 5 wants you to forget what happened in Halo 4. Just like how Halo 4 wants you to forget what happened in Halo 3. Halo's universe has always been fictional, but 343's constant course adjustment makes it hard to forget that fact.

I like ODST and I think it has an awesome campaign but I haven't actually played the campaign yet, hence I excluded it. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I like ODST and I think it has an awesome campaign but I haven't actually played the campaign yet, hence I excluded it. 

Dude. Rectify that.

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ahh the irony

499025725c5ea35320b863833c86c174.png

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-halo-5-bonnie-ross/

article from 2015 lmao.

“If I take it over, I want to be George Lucas. I want to own everything”

6331d93f1e8ebf2498072b2acd1703ff.png

“People felt like, Let’s get another Halo or two out, and it’s the end of the franchise,” Ross says. “The thing I asked for was: If I take it over, I want to be George Lucas. I want to own everything, and I want to do things differently.”

okay bonnie just confirmed she's the problem. get her out

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57 minutes ago, znot said:

 

6331d93f1e8ebf2498072b2acd1703ff.png

Never understood why would anyone think hiring actors to work in software company is a good idea.

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On 11/19/2020 at 11:44 AM, _Synapse said:

342 Halos don't have any of that for me. The nu-factions are so soullessly bland and uninteresting that it sucks any fun out of the cinematic aspect of the games.

That's basically it. 343's Halo is soulless. What makes people so angry is that they are scared of releasing a Halo game, worried about "current trends" and "state of the market" that they copy and follow.

Halo used to lead. Forge, Theatre, Matchmaking, Friends lists, lobbies, parties, clans, ranks, competitive console gaming, FPS on console, large outdoor environments, perfect music, combined arms gameplay.

343's Halo follows and meanders behind the wake of larger games, always trying to be it's own thing but too scared to leave the shadow. It has no soul.

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342 are either utterly incapable of innovating, or too scared to do so. 

There's been 5 legitimate changes they've made that have been genuine improvements, over their 10 year period with Halo. 

• H5 Forge

• A Customs Browser 

• Match Composer

• 60FPS

• Regional Server Selection

That's literally it, not even counting the other tens of features that they've regressed on (like H5's literal-shit tier server-side theater). 

Even disregarding gameplay, there's 50 features I can think off the top of my head that would be awesome QoL features for a Halo game to have. 

 

Imagine:

• A jukebox for matchmaking queues where players can listen to whatever soundtracks are available while waiting for games. 

• XP Win/Loss multipliers.

• Party matching search parameters.

• A community hub page that functions as the spiritual successor to file share. Screenshots, montages, maps, clips, ranked ladders & leaderboards, gamemodes, etc. 

• Theater mode with features from newer CODs, more like an interactive photo/video mode. 

• Multiplayer AI bots. 

• Team forfeit. 

• Armor customization with more customizable pieces, more armor sets available, an RGBA color selection tool, a wear & tear bar, etc. 

• HUD Customization. 

• Reticle Customization. 

• Added tools in "advanced" custom options to customize the features of each individual weapon: projectile type, projectile speed, projectile damage, melee damage, melee animation time + cooldown scaling, reload animation time + cooldown scaling, magnetism, accuracy curve, effects on player/surroundings, etc. 

• 60 second pregame and postgame lobbies that show each player's skill levels, XP, performance, spartan models, etc. 

• Performance that also weights time spent on power positions, power items picked up, damage done, etc. in addition to a win/loss. 

• 2v2/FFA/3v3/etc. modes on maps having different item sets to suit the gamemode better. 

 

I thought of this stuff in like 50 seconds. It's why I cringe whenever people say that "Halo needs to evolve", it's done nothing but devolve gameplay-wise since 2001 and feature-wise since 2010. 

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Do you know where Halo’s problems stem from?  The bumpers.  

Halo was originally designed for a controller with less usable buttons.  The addition of the bumpers gave developers space to add something stupid and, predictably, they did:  H3 Equipment, Reach Armor Abilities, H4 sprint, H5 movement.  

Bumpers fucked Halo 

Halo had an established control scheme with established functions.  Then they got some extra buttons and have been struggling to figure out what to do with them ever since.  Halo won’t be good again until they know what ALL the buttons should do, and grappling hook ain’t it Chief.  

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11 hours ago, _Synapse said:

342 are either utterly incapable of innovating, or too scared to do so. 

There's been 5 legitimate changes they've made that have been genuine improvements, over their 10 year period with Halo. 

• H5 Forge

• A Customs Browser 

• Match Composer

• 60FPS

• Regional Server Selection

That's literally it, not even counting the other tens of features that they've regressed on (like H5's literal-shit tier server-side theater). 

Even disregarding gameplay, there's 50 features I can think off the top of my head that would be awesome QoL features for a Halo game to have. 

 

Imagine:

• A jukebox for matchmaking queues where players can listen to whatever soundtracks are available while waiting for games. 

• XP Win/Loss multipliers.

• Party matching search parameters.

• A community hub page that functions as the spiritual successor to file share. Screenshots, montages, maps, clips, ranked ladders & leaderboards, gamemodes, etc. 

• Theater mode with features from newer CODs, more like an interactive photo/video mode. 

• Multiplayer AI bots. 

• Team forfeit. 

• Armor customization with more customizable pieces, more armor sets available, an RGBA color selection tool, a wear & tear bar, etc. 

• HUD Customization. 

• Reticle Customization. 

• Added tools in "advanced" custom options to customize the features of each individual weapon: projectile type, projectile speed, projectile damage, melee damage, melee animation time + cooldown scaling, reload animation time + cooldown scaling, magnetism, accuracy curve, effects on player/surroundings, etc. 

• 60 second pregame and postgame lobbies that show each player's skill levels, XP, performance, spartan models, etc. 

• Performance that also weights time spent on power positions, power items picked up, damage done, etc. in addition to a win/loss. 

• 2v2/FFA/3v3/etc. modes on maps having different item sets to suit the gamemode better. 

 

I thought of this stuff in like 50 seconds. It's why I cringe whenever people say that "Halo needs to evolve", it's done nothing but devolve gameplay-wise since 2001 and feature-wise since 2010. 

And the worst thing is that all of these suggestions have been around for at solid decade and have been ignored time and time again. Instead we got kill streaks, grappling hooks, ADS and sprint. 

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I’ve brought this up before but infinite should have   “1” ranked playlist 

every other game has their ranked playlist be the competitive tournament settings of that game. You don’t need ranked for doubles, ffa, snipers, etc. yes these can be sweaty but at the end of the day they’re not the competition settings. In my eyes I think a doubles be only acceptable if tourneys for doubles were to be a thing.

There should however be two versions of the playlist, one is solo/duo que only and one is regular. Kinda how it is currently in halo 5. 

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I’ve brought this up before but infinite should have   “1” ranked playlist 

every other game has their ranked playlist be the competitive tournament settings of that game. You don’t need ranked for doubles, ffa, snipers, etc. yes these can be sweaty but at the end of the day they’re not the competition settings. In my eyes I think a doubles be only acceptable if tourneys for doubles were to be a thing.

There should however be two versions of the playlist, one is solo/duo que only and one is regular. Kinda how it is currently in halo 5. 

Yeah but if we went down that road with the people in charge of Halo MM the ranked playlist would be more H3 team slayer and less MLG settings. Can't really trust them when it comes to competitive settings as dumb as that sounds they're super lost without the community settings as we witnessed in H5. It took years for them to budge on that radar and automatic weapons.

Hopefully lessons have been learned for Infinite but since every Halo has restarted the cycle of learning and creating what in the end turn out to be very similar competitive settings I'm not going to be excited until I can confirm they've learned and moved forward with lessons from the last game rather than resetting. At a minimum they have to start taking action and making changes to those settings on the scale of weeks instead of months and years

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18 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Yeah but if we went down that road with the people in charge of Halo MM the ranked playlist would be more H3 team slayer and less MLG settings. Can't really trust them when it comes to competitive settings as dumb as that sounds they're super lost without the community settings as we witnessed in H5. It took years for them to budge on that radar and automatic weapons.

Hopefully lessons have been learned for Infinite but since every Halo has restarted the cycle of learning and creating what in the end turn out to be very similar competitive settings I'm not going to be excited until I can confirm they've learned and moved forward with lessons from the last game rather than resetting. At a minimum they have to start taking action and making changes to those settings on the scale of weeks instead of months and years

Ok even if that were to happen I’d still prefer it if we had the tourney settings. Whatever those are is what the one ranked playlist should be 

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Honestly, Ranked playlist in Halo Infinite has to be one playlist. 4v4, Slayer, CTF, KoTH, Oddball, Strongholds, Extraction yadda yadda. All the comp 4v4 gametypes. 

Ranked Halo is already traditionally far less popular than unranked, but yet we still end up with fucken 4 or 5 different ranked playlists in each game. Focus everyone into one, single Ranked playlist and you can fix so many issues with ranked so much more easily. 

Higher population means more players to play with when creating games, you can implement proper team matching, better SBMM (Not whatever the fuck MCC has which results in 1 v 4 games as one good player is paired with 3 awful ones because 'da teem mmr avridge is da same')

Seasonal resets, seasonal rewards based on your final rank that season. Emblems, Weapon Charms, hell, give the Top 1000 players of the season as exclusive Armour coating or something, just something that you can see and go "damn, that guys good"

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5 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Honestly, Ranked playlist in Halo Infinite has to be one playlist. 4v4, Slayer, CTF, KoTH, Oddball, Strongholds, Extraction yadda yadda. All the comp 4v4 gametypes. 

You couldn’t call it Team Slayer if it included objective gametypes.  MLG isn’t involved anymore so that’s out.  Team Hardcore sounds a bit too intimidating.  What should this playlist be called?  
 

Besides 4v4, what other experiences should Halo offer?  

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4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You couldn’t call it Team Slayer if it included objective gametypes.  MLG isn’t involved anymore so that’s out.  Team Hardcore sounds a bit too intimidating.  What should this playlist be called?  
 

Besides 4v4, what other experiences should Halo offer?  

At this point maybe they should stick with something what works in other games. Quickplay and ranked plus Btb and custom game browser let's say.  Maybe add in rotational playlist like Snipers or Swat. This should be enough. Halo is not in the position to justify all kind of separate playlist that were present in past games. 

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