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Halo Infinite Discussion

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20 minutes ago, znot said:

my counterpoint to that is, you're right but Bungie only did it because they already had their eyes set on Destiny and were using Halo Reach as a way to test the mechanics for Destiny.

IF MS just let them have their way Reach would never exist and it would have just been right to Destiny. Halo 3, H3: ODST, Destiny. But MS said they have to ship them one more game before their contract goes up.... hence reach

Hell they even said numerous times that it wasn't going to be called "Halo:reach" MS was on their backs about brand recognition and how it would never sell without Halo in the name. Hence why the main menu only says Reach. This was their way of getting back at MS by saying it's our game, our menu, "REACH"

 

Yeah i guess this is kind of what i was getting at.  Bungie clearly had another game in mind and basically said "Fuck it".

5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I think it’s worse than that.  I think Bungie intentionally added a bunch of controversial mechanics with the intent of kneecapping Halo before they moved on, leaving their predecessor with no easy path to another great Halo game.  Does 343 launch their first Halo game with less “features” than Reach or do they double down on those features, moving further away from classic Halo?  Lose/lose.  

I don't think they intentionally sabotaged the game per-se meaning they didn't intentionally make it bad.  But they most certainly did intentionally experiment with it in ways that really didn't fit Halo. I hope that they have some regrets in retrospect seeing how their asinine changes were the catalyst that started Halo down this whole advanced mobility, gimmicky ability path.

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6 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Yeah i guess this is kind of what i was getting at.  Bungie clearly had another game in mind and basically said "Fuck it".

I don't think they intentionally sabotaged the game per-se meaning they didn't intentionally make it bad.  But they most certainly did intentionally experiment with it in ways that really didn't fit Halo. I hope that they have some regrets in retrospect seeing how their asinine changes were the catalyst that started Halo down this whole advanced mobility, gimmicky ability path.

yeah i mean literally everything in D1 was legacy reach. most of the animations etc.

 

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18 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

Here is the thing with 343 approach to the story. I really liked the way they went with Halo 4. I still do. All the forerunner history with precursors, ancient humans, I loved it. The problem was, they didn't serve the story throughout the game, instead the huge important chunk of it was hidden in terminals and books. Not many people go out of their way that much. But otherwise, as a science fiction fan, I really liked it.

But. Instead of changing their approach, they throw away what they have built in Halo 4 altogether (they finished the Halo 4 story in comic book...) and go totally different direction. Yes Halo 5 story, mostly, sucks. And it looks like they are doing the same thing with Halo 6, except now they are trying to follow Halo Wars storyline. What a mess.

This is my take on this.

I don't know why its not obvious that whatever story is told in the main storyline is the only thing that you should have to know to understand any further stories.  The whole "transmedia" thing is fine as long as you actually understand that each property must stand on its own. Which hopefully they have learned.  I remember the exposition dump with the didact and librarian and their history and relationship in the game and being like, "What in the actual fuck is going on?". I had to go online and look at halo wiki's just to try to understand what was up, which is just bad story telling. Edit: didn't finish my thought... apparently like you said you could get all the background they don't explain in that cutscene through the various terminals throughout the game if you care to put in the work to parse the info in them, but that just shouldn't be necessary.

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I think the most interesting thing to me is how people point out that bungie did x y and z bad with Halo but I'm not sure I have ever seen someone suggest another dev that would actually have done better. The only thing we succeeded in by losing bungie working on the Halo franchise is a significant drop in functional quality. The actual mechanics of the game are just individual preferences and nobody makes games like the original 3 Halo titles. So, basically, I see people complaining but I'm not sure if they see that there isn't a solution they would be satisfied with. We would be lucky to have bungie come back to Halo because the alternative is studios that are definite downgrades for the most part and a market that will never produce the game you want in terms of game mechanics

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18 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

I don't know why its not obvious that whatever story is told in the main storyline is the only thing that you should have to know to understand any further stories.  The whole "transmedia" thing is fine as long as you actually understand that each property must stand on its own. Which hopefully they have learned.  I remember the exposition dump with the didact and librarian and their history and relationship in the game and being like, "What in the actual fuck is going on?". I had to go online and look at halo wiki's just to try to understand what was up, which is just bad story telling.

Yeah. Absolutely. If you didnt read the books Didact was just weird random guy. And that's a real shame, because he was, included the expanded universe, really interesting, torn character, not black and white at all.

And the Librarian scene, haha. Remember? Chief was supposed to be some kind of vessel and she has waken something inside of him. They totally scrapped this in H5. They've literally broken the canon, the halo bible, whatever they call it nowdays. I know most people don't care about this too much, but Halo universe was special, now it's just another thing 343 messed up.

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23 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

Yeah. Absolutely. If you didnt read the books Didact was just weird random guy. And that's a real shame, because he was, included the expanded universe, really interesting, torn character, not black and white at all.

And the Librarian scene, haha. Remember? Chief was supposed to be some kind of vessel and she has waken something inside of him. They totally scrapped this in H5. They've literally broken the canon, the halo bible, whatever they call it nowdays. I know most people don't care about this too much, but Halo universe was special, now it's just another thing 343 messed up.

Who remembers nanobots...

 

 

I remember nanobots...  such a dumb ingame explanation to change the artstyle. Did the ship have nanobots too? the fuck 343?

 

w8n6yemgs3151.jpg

 

I honestly get WHYYYY they wanted to change the artstyle. Frank said in an interview that "they didn't want the artists limited to what bungie had already created, we wanted the artists to express themselves, which meant redesigning some aspects of the art." it's not verbatim but the gist.

 

now as a modeler myself I get it. I can see how it's not exciting to recreate a model polygon for polygon (speak for yourself I actually like it) but they should have given them a different approach. Recreate it as 1:1 as possible BUT let them go into the objects polys and add extra detail that was never there.

Like this block on the left is from H3 narrows, block on the right is my trash modeling. instead of redoing the whole model and shape of it, just work WITHIN the shape 343.

2e5c4aa8d138b44714f7e97b1f045588.png

 

This keeps the silhouette but adds more detail where there otherwise wasn't. I think Chief's infinite armor is the best example of this, it's basically the same h3/h2 armor but with WAAAAY more intricate detail. and the detail has no affect on the silhouette. Hell silhouette shouldn't even matter I don't know why I keep bringing it up... Nostalgia maybe? Just get concept artists that know what halo looks like damn.

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Finding the Master Chief should have been the culminating event of 343’s first trilogy.  Build some characters from scratch in the Halo universe then, after we care about them, throw Chief back in the mix, revealing him at the end of the second trilogy and re introducing him in the third.  

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Finding the Master Chief should have been the culminating event of 343’s first trilogy.  Build some characters from scratch in the Halo universe then, after we care about them, throw Chief back in the mix, revealing him at the end of the second trilogy and re introducing him in the third.  

not a bad idea after how h3 ended. 

 

to go a bit further. what if we went the h5 route. and played as chief trapped wherever he is. And also played as the rescue squad looking for him... except it's actually good and not h5.

 

H5 did it soooo shitty, that even the idea is tainted now... good shit it could have actually been good.

 

d17b38d25d0925e479492e79ce3da94f.gif

 

Bro mendicant bias is in INFINITE, that brute has him floating in his palm. It's not touching his hand so it's no hammer.

tadqs2ciuld51.jpg

The only explanation for the 3 lights flipped on his visor is Mendicant either does a cool intro where he drops and spins into his final position before confronting chief, FUCK THAT WOULD BE DOPE ....OR. the visor flips the image like  a spoon would. Though i think it has the be the other way for it to flip, concaved.

 

 

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So I played Halo the other night and came across a team of 4 blue shields. I looked after the game and that had, collectively, 20,000+ hours on MCC.

I quit after two minutes because the score was 21-0 at two minutes and I don't find enjoyment opposing 20,000 hours of MCC in a team of four from kids that literally never miss. As I'd expect from myself if I had played 6300 hours of MCC.

 But it made me realise that I don't really like any small scale shooters apart from the Halo trilogy. It then made me realise that after the Halo 4/crossplay boost of players dips, the only people remaining will be these people that somehow have 8-9 hours a day to play a dead game. 

Soon I won't be able to enjoy Halo through attrition. I don't have 8-9 hours a day to get that good and doublefuck that for a dead game. 

Infinite will be mediocre at best but with clamber/spring forcing map design straight out of CoD I can get that experience anywhere.

Just made me sad to realise I'm not just losing interest in Halo (Even though I'm above average, I'm not anywhere near the top) but I'm also losing interest in gaming as a whole. 

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38 minutes ago, znot said:

played as the rescue squad looking for him

This could be good for the second trilogy.  Or maybe it would be better to tell the story of some random character who ends up finding Chief by chance at the end of T2E3 who then goes on to become the John Conner of this universe, like Chief’s luck was transferred to him.  
 

For the third trilogy, I would have Chief tell people that Cortana is dead or lost but really she’s still alive in his armor and she’s secretly causing problems by Tyler Durdening the Chief, vilifying him when it comes out.  Cortana dies for good at the end of T3E1.  Chief dies at the end of T3E3.  Hopefully after this many titles, you have enough side characters built up to carry the Halo series forward.  

After each trilogy is a spin off.  Reach was between one and two.  Trials of the Arbiter is between two and three, reintroducing Arby right before Chief comes back.  

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30 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

Who needs Infinite when we have Custom Edition.

Microsoft's shareholders.

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13 hours ago, Hemlax said:

Here is the thing with 343 approach on the story. I really liked the way they went with Halo 4. I still do. All the forerunner history with precursors, ancient humans, I loved it. The problem was, they didn't serve the story throughout the game, instead the huge important chunk of it was hidden in terminals and books. Not many people go out of their way that much. But otherwise, as a science fiction fan, I really liked it (they even hired freaking Greg Bear, Hugo award winner, to write the forerunner trilogy, very good books, except the weaker middle part). Even the in-game cinematics, the cortana struggle, Chief breaking the rules and the more personal, intimate feel of some of the scenes...that was some top quality work.

But. Instead of changing their approach, they throw away what they have built in Halo 4 altogether (they finished the Halo 4 story in comic book...) and go totally different direction. Yes Halo 5 story, mostly, sucks. And it looks like they are doing the same thing with Halo 6, except now they are trying to follow Halo Wars storyline. What a mess.

This is my take on this.

My problem with Halo 4's story, and 343 in general, is that you have to follow up with outside media to really understand the story. I should be able to understand Halo 4 from beginning to end without having to read books or comics. All of that should be supplemental information that could tie into Halo 4 but it shouldn't be necessary to understand it.

13 hours ago, znot said:

yeah i mean literally everything in D1 was legacy reach. most of the animations etc.

This almost looks better graphically than what we saw in the Infinite demo.

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1 hour ago, JordanB said:

My problem with Halo 4's story, and 343 in general, is that you have to follow up with outside media to really understand the story. I should be able to understand Halo 4 from beginning to end without having to read books or comics. All of that should be supplemental information that could tie into Halo 4 but it shouldn't be necessary to understand it.

I agree. Was just trying to say they shouldn't have scrapped everything, but take a different approach, because what they have created with Halo 4 across all the media wasn't bad, it just wasn't implemented the right way. 

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Ok from a game stand point if you don’t listen to any terminals then you won’t understand halo 4s story. But I’ll ask did you understand halo 2&3s by playing beyond the simple moments of arbiters revenge and what not? Humanity trying to win the war and survive extinction? 

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44 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Ok from a game stand point if you don’t listen to any terminals then you won’t understand halo 4s story. But I’ll ask did you understand halo 2&3s by playing beyond the simple moments of arbiters revenge and what not? Humanity trying to win the war and survive extinction? 

hosetly, you can download the h2 and h3 cut scenes and get a solid feel on the story from those, so yes, you can

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24 minutes ago, Craneteam said:

hosetly, you can download the h2 and h3 cut scenes and get a solid feel on the story from those, so yes, you can

I mean they still leave out plenty of key details. In h4 a four runner returns and wants to destroy humanity. The key reason peoooe didn’t understand shit, was because deep down no one knew shit about four runners from the games, except they created the rings to kill the flood and they were an advanced species. 

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19 hours ago, Shekkles said:

So I played Halo the other night and came across a team of 4 blue shields. I looked after the game and that had, collectively, 20,000+ hours on MCC.

I quit after two minutes because the score was 21-0 at two minutes and I don't find enjoyment opposing 20,000 hours of MCC in a team of four from kids that literally never miss. As I'd expect from myself if I had played 6300 hours of MCC.

 But it made me realise that I don't really like any small scale shooters apart from the Halo trilogy. It then made me realise that after the Halo 4/crossplay boost of players dips, the only people remaining will be these people that somehow have 8-9 hours a day to play a dead game. 

Soon I won't be able to enjoy Halo through attrition. I don't have 8-9 hours a day to get that good and doublefuck that for a dead game. 

Infinite will be mediocre at best but with clamber/spring forcing map design straight out of CoD I can get that experience anywhere.

Just made me sad to realise I'm not just losing interest in Halo (Even though I'm above average, I'm not anywhere near the top) but I'm also losing interest in gaming as a whole. 

Add me if yer into pubstomping. username is gt

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44 minutes ago, Craneteam said:

hosetly, you can download the h2 and h3 cut scenes and get a solid feel on the story from those, so yes, you can

Did the extended universe even exist when Halo 2 launched?  

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Did the extended universe even exist when Halo 2 launched?  

Bro extended universe started when MS commissioned the FALL of REACH before CE launched back in 2001. Like literally a few months or so before the game launched, the book launched...

I personally never knew it was pre CE. 

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Fun fact, I got into Halo through the books, not the games. Read them in the wrong order too, started with Ghosts of Onyx, and inadvertently when backwards from there.

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22 hours ago, Shekkles said:

So I played Halo the other night and came across a team of 4 blue shields. I looked after the game and that had, collectively, 20,000+ hours on MCC.

I quit after two minutes because the score was 21-0 at two minutes and I don't find enjoyment opposing 20,000 hours of MCC in a team of four from kids that literally never miss. As I'd expect from myself if I had played 6300 hours of MCC.

 But it made me realise that I don't really like any small scale shooters apart from the Halo trilogy. It then made me realise that after the Halo 4/crossplay boost of players dips, the only people remaining will be these people that somehow have 8-9 hours a day to play a dead game. 

Soon I won't be able to enjoy Halo through attrition. I don't have 8-9 hours a day to get that good and doublefuck that for a dead game. 

Infinite will be mediocre at best but with clamber/spring forcing map design straight out of CoD I can get that experience anywhere.

Just made me sad to realise I'm not just losing interest in Halo (Even though I'm above average, I'm not anywhere near the top) but I'm also losing interest in gaming as a whole. 

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. The only shooter I have played even somewhat consistently for years now is MCC and I just hop on a few times a week at most to play some social games and complete a few challenges (I also played Battlefield 1 pretty extensively and some Battlefront 2 for a while), but besides that I haven't had any real interest in shooters in general the last 7+ years. I did play Fortnite for a few months with friends and Apex for about a week now that I think about it, but that is it. 

Sad thing is, as you said, that the main shooter that I do enjoy playing (classic Halo) is a dying game in which pretty much the only people who still play either have no thumbs or seemingly play nothing else besides it. I will hop on and play 10 games or so usually. 5-7 of those will be completely lopsided on way or another and maybe 2-3 are actuality good games, sometimes less than that. 

If it weren't for open world RPGs and Immersive Sim games I am not sure I would have any real interest in gaming anymore honestly. Shooters are what truly got me "hooked" on video games when I was younger, but as I get older RPGs are the only thing that really hold my interest now. I do think the future is bright in that regard though. 

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