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Halo Infinite Discussion

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12 hours ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Just because someone left the studio does not mean the game is having development issues. Let's talk facts, not blatant assumptions and wild hyperbole.

 

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NO CREATIVE DELIMMA IN THE STUDIO GUYS, WERE JUST READING INTO IT. /s 

 

Sorry for triple post, I couldn't sworn I edited this into my 2nd post. wtf

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Machinegun Games would be a close runner-up to ID Software with their work on Wolfenstein. In fact, I'd imagine they'd tag team Halo rather well. Id handling multiplayer, and MGG handling single-player.

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11 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

Machinegun Games would be a close runner-up to ID Software with their work on Wolfenstein. In fact, I'd imagine they'd tag team Halo rather well. Id handling multiplayer, and MGG handling single-player.

did you play Wolfenstein 2? It's pretty not good compared to the first. Level design mainly and just general lack of FUN that made the first one intersting. The first game didn't take itself too seriously, this game is.

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You guys don’t want dual wielding or ADS to return to Halo, right?  Then you have to figure out what you want mapped to “Hold Y” and “Scope on scopeless weapons”.  They’ll fill these mappings with something.  What would some non-horrible options be?  

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2 hours ago, Hemlax said:

They now own ID engine. I haven't thought of that. Halo 7 is gonna be awesome.

id tech is ass though.

 

Timestamped

 

This is from their expansion that just dropped.  Ya'll wanna complain about how bad the lighting quality was in the Infinite reveal, id tech has the most balls quality texture stream rendering pipeline of any modern engine, basically any texture that hasn't sat on your screen for 5 seconds comes in super muddy.  And the lighting quality in ANYTHING that isn't baked (aka, anything you want to cast shadows) is awful.  There's a reason they consistently keep the games so dark and blanket everything with fog / smoke.  Look at the one cutscene in Doom that actually has dynamic lighting in day time.  It looks like 360 era.

 

Physics simulation is all but nonexistent in id tech as well from what I understand.  BUT, this is why the game runs at like 20000 FPS on a potato.  It's a really leightweight and good looking engine for EXACTLY what Doom is, which is dark and smoky and grungy.  Wouldn't work for Halo.

 

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5 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Hold Y to throw current weapon. 

My two rules are it has to make sense on the button and serve a purpose that promotes/rewards your overarching gameplay goals.  
 

Since Y is already switch weapons, it makes sense that holding Y would do something else to the equipped weapon, throwing it in this case.  
 

It seems like the purpose it serves is to allow teammates to quickly and easily exchange weapons.  What are you trying to promote/reward by allowing teammates to swap weapons whenever/wherever they want?  

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25 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

id tech is ass though.

 

Timestamped

 

This is from their expansion that just dropped.  Ya'll wanna complain about how bad the lighting quality was in the Infinite reveal, id tech has the most balls quality texture stream rendering pipeline of any modern engine, basically any texture that hasn't sat on your screen for 5 seconds comes in super muddy.  And the lighting quality in ANYTHING that isn't baked (aka, anything you want to cast shadows) is awful.  There's a reason they consistently keep the games so dark and blanket everything with fog / smoke.  Look at the one cutscene in Doom that actually has dynamic lighting in day time.  It looks like 360 era.

 

Physics simulation is all but nonexistent in id tech as well from what I understand.  BUT, this is why the game runs at like 20000 FPS on a potato.  It's a really leightweight and good looking engine for EXACTLY what Doom is, which is dark and smoky and grungy.  Wouldn't work for Halo.

 

You are probably right.

But we can only quess how bad the Slipspace really is. How much of it is the tech and how much is the incompetence of the artists.

On the other side, Doom is well aware of it's limits and andvantages, art stand on it's own and what you get is good looking, well running product. There is not much else we really need from technical/visual standpoint. I doubt anybody would be complaining, if we got reveal on the same level as was the Doom Eternal reveal.

Btw, for some reason, the Doom expansion looks worse than the original.

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2 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

You are probably right.

But we can only quess how bad the Slipspace really is. How much of it is the tech and how much is the incompetence of the artists.

On the other side, Doom is well aware of it's limits and andvantages, art stand on it's own and what you get is good looking, well running product. There is not much else we really need from technical/visual standpoint.

Btw, for some reason, the Doom expansion looks worse than the original.

Agree with you on all points, especially the last sentence.

 

Doom 2016 looked SO good.  The moment the first room revealed itself to me in Doom Eternal, it looked worse.  It's hard for me to explain why but aside from all the design issues I have with Doom Eternal (I think it's a worse game in almost every way than the predecessor) I think it looks way, way worse than 2016.  And I think this expansion looks much worse than the base game.  Could be they were pressed for time and didn't get to do proper texture passes on everything for PBR.  Could just be that the environments in this new expansion are brighter and lend itself to the engine weaker. But, I just noticed when watching through it that it didn't look all that great. 

 

Altogether I was honestly pretty disappointed with Eternal.

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19 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Agree with you on all points, especially the last sentence.

 

Doom 2016 looked SO good.  The moment the first room revealed itself to me in Doom Eternal, it looked worse.  It's hard for me to explain why but aside from all the design issues I have with Doom Eternal (I think it's a worse game in almost every way than the predecessor) I think it looks way, way worse than 2016.  And I think this expansion looks much worse than the base game.  Could be they were pressed for time and didn't get to do proper texture passes on everything for PBR.  Could just be that the environments in this new expansion are brighter and lend itself to the engine weaker. But, I just noticed when watching through it that it didn't look all that great. 

 

Altogether I was honestly pretty disappointed with Eternal.

I think you got it flipped. DOOM 2016 had horrible texture streaming and the textures would load in right during a frame. I didn't really notice it during eternal but I also haven't played it since May

I think Id Tech 7 is way better.

 

The one thing I liked about Doom 2016 though is the reflections and lighting on the enemies and environments. the characters had a slimely sheen to them and reacted with the lighting of the level. DOOM eternal they're all sort of... flat

 

and pretty much everything else but textures

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17 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Agree with you on all points, especially the last sentence.

 

Doom 2016 looked SO good.  The moment the first room revealed itself to me in Doom Eternal, it looked worse.  It's hard for me to explain why but aside from all the design issues I have with Doom Eternal (I think it's a worse game in almost every way than the predecessor) I think it looks way, way worse than 2016.  And I think this expansion looks much worse than the base game.  Could be they were pressed for time and didn't get to do proper texture passes on everything for PBR.  Could just be that the environments in this new expansion are brighter and lend itself to the engine weaker. But, I just noticed when watching through it that it didn't look all that great. 

 

Altogether I was honestly pretty disappointed with Eternal.

I had my fair share of fun with Eternal (i would say it started strong but it slowly went downhill from there) but I absolutely agree with you. Doom 2016 was overally much better game. Leveldesign, visuals, atmosphere, tighter gameplay.

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43 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You guys don’t want dual wielding or ADS to return to Halo, right?  Then you have to figure out what you want mapped to “Hold Y” and “Scope on scopeless weapons”.  They’ll fill these mappings with something.  What would some non-horrible options be?  

Throwing a weapon just remind me of the weapons in borderlands that you reload by throwing them and they explode like little grenades.

 

i mean, nothing and nothing is fine.  It would be nice to get a halo game where one of the face buttons actually didn't do anything again.  If they have to, have hold Y switch to a weak sidearm like the H2 pistol that you always have and can't change out.  and scope on weapons with no scope just... zooms like it traditionally has.

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6 minutes ago, znot said:

I think you got it flipped. DOOM 2016 had horrible texture streaming and the textures would load in right during a frame. I didn't really notice it during eternal but I also haven't played it since May

I think Id Tech 7 is way better.

 

The one thing I liked about Doom 2016 though is the reflections and lighting on the enemies and environments. the characters had a slimely sheen to them and reacted with the lighting of the level. DOOM eternal they're all sort of... flat

Well I'm aware that they improved the texture streaming pipeline from id tech 6 - 7, it's just the way the engine is written I'm saying in general id tech doesn't have great texture quality in a lot of scenarios.

 

I'm not arguing id tech 6 is better than 7, just that Doom 2016 looks better than Doom Eternal.  I haven't looked into it any deeper than just my surface level impressions when I played through either game but I even went back and played 2016 and thought it looked nicer.  This happens a lot with Devs though, I think Battlefield 1 looks a lot better than Battlefield V

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1 minute ago, MultiLockOn said:

Well I'm aware that they improved the texture streaming pipeline from id tech 6 - 7, it's just the way the engine is written I'm saying in general id tech doesn't have great texture quality in a lot of scenarios.

 

I'm not arguing id tech 6 is better than 7, just that Doom 2016 looks better than Doom Eternal.  I haven't looked into it any deeper than just my surface level impressions when I played through either game but I even went back and played 2016 and thought it looked nicer.  This happens a lot with Devs though, I think Battlefield 1 looks a lot better than Battlefield V

yeah DOOM eternal looks weirdly cartoony especially doom guy in this thumbnail. Almost like he has cell shading going on.  There's an outline on every detail of his armor

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Eternal has better enemies, weapons and combat. The problem I have is the levels are long and linear. What they should do is keep the combat, but get rid of the straight and long level traversal to the inevitable combat encounter. Replace that with open levels that have areas where the enemies already are, like in the original doom. Combat encounters should be able to be entered and left at will, but required for completion of the level. Obviously enemies can still spawn during each encounter to add variety and challenge. Its not that I dislike the levels outright, but after 2 games of just "go down this hallway and get trapped fighting monsters," Id like a little freedom.

I went back and played both 16 and eternal recently on nightmare and honestly its my biggest complaint from both games.

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14 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Throwing a weapon just remind me of the weapons in borderlands that you reload by throwing them and they explode like little grenades.

Tediore.  
 

15 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

It would be nice to get a halo game where one of the face buttons actually didn't do anything again.

If deploy Equipment was mapped to B and activate Armor Ability was mapped to A then there would be TWO free face buttons in Arena.  

 

17 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

have hold Y switch to a weak sidearm like the H2 pistol that you always have and can't change out.

Why a weak pistol as a sidearm?  Why not something closer to a utility weapon?  
 

19 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

and scope on weapons with no scope just... zooms like it traditionally has.

How much utility do the binoculars on scopeless weapons provide?  If a weapon doesn’t have a scope, it’s not going to be effective at scope range so the binoculars are solely a scouting tool, which isn’t really necessary anymore in the high definition age.  Don’t you think each scopeless weapon having a unique alt-fire is more interesting than useless binoculars?  Couldn’t these alt-fires supply the close range sandbox with the diversity it so desperately needs?  

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I don't mind dual-wielding, definitely keep out of ranked gameplay but if social game modes or campaign wanted to have dual-wield I'd be fine with that. 

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1 hour ago, znot said:

I think you got it flipped. DOOM 2016 had horrible texture streaming and the textures would load in right during a frame. I didn't really notice it during eternal but I also haven't played it since May

I think Id Tech 7 is way better.

 

The one thing I liked about Doom 2016 though is the reflections and lighting on the enemies and environments. the characters had a slimely sheen to them and reacted with the lighting of the level. DOOM eternal they're all sort of... flat

 

and pretty much everything else but textures

tbf i dont mind visuals not looking like a movie. im enjoying the combat in eternal. i didnt play 2016 so i have to take your word on if it was worse visually. i also didnt care about the graphics of craig  and the trees in the infinite reveal. as long as the gameplay is good, i'm in. i just know that i am probably going to be extremely unhappy with infinite and the only xbox games studio i could currently imagine doing well with it would be id, though i could only imagine how fun a respawn halo could be

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26 minutes ago, JordanB said:

I don't mind dual-wielding, definitely keep out of ranked gameplay but if social game modes or campaign wanted to have dual-wield I'd be fine with that. 

Dual wielding gives the player the ability to fire two types of projectiles.  A better way of accomplishing that, the ability to fire two types of projectiles, is through a fire/alt-fire system where one weapon fires two types of projectiles.  Static combinations can be better balanced and alt-fire doesn’t steal your ability to melee or throw grenades.  

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8 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Dual wielding gives the player the ability to fire two types of projectiles.  A better way of accomplishing that, the ability to fire two types of projectiles, is through a fire/alt-fire system where one weapon fires two types of projectiles.  Static combinations can be better balanced and alt-fire doesn’t steal your ability to melee or throw grenades.  

That is interesting. But I don't know if I would get the same feeling as I would by dual-wielding. Since I wouldn't want it in competitive at all, I'm not worried at all about the balance of the weapon. I just want a fun experience for campaign and casual multiplayer. I want to be able to dual-wield an SMG and a Plasma Rifle, or a Pistol and a Plasma Pistol, or two Needlers, etc. I not only want the feeling of using two weapons at once but I also want the opportunity to dual wield any combination of weapons that the game allows.

Probably not a very relevant discussion to have here since we are more on the competitive side of things, but since I would be in favor of a "hold Y to dual wield" I'm basically saying I am ok with holding Y doing nothing in competitive 

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One reason players can only carry two weapons at once is because the ability to quickly switch between two weapons is more valuable than the ability to select from many weapons, like via a weapon wheel.  A good middle ground, between carrying 2 weapons and carrying 8 weapons, is carrying 3 weapons:  primary, secondary, and sidearm.  
 

Holding Y equips the sidearm.  In a pick up centric game, that promotes aggression, picking up two power weapons punishes the player by depriving him of his utility weapon.  By making the utility weapon, say the Magnum, a sidearm, players can secure multiple power weapons without losing their jack of all trades that is necessary for extended survival.  

Instead of relegating “Hold Y” to social dual wielding, it can be used to bolster competitive play.  @JordanB

 

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Well I'm aware that they improved the texture streaming pipeline from id tech 6 - 7, it's just the way the engine is written I'm saying in general id tech doesn't have great texture quality in a lot of scenarios.

 

I'm not arguing id tech 6 is better than 7, just that Doom 2016 looks better than Doom Eternal.  I haven't looked into it any deeper than just my surface level impressions when I played through either game but I even went back and played 2016 and thought it looked nicer.  This happens a lot with Devs though, I think Battlefield 1 looks a lot better than Battlefield V

Do you also feel like some of the newer stuff that tries to take advantage of the "latest greatest tech!" ends up just looking... worse? What's the point of taking advantage of the latest particle simulation whatever when it kills my framerate and legitimately makes it harder to see, even if it is more "realistic"?

2 hours ago, Boyo said:

Tediore.  

TEDIORE. loved that shit.  Borderlands 3 worth it?

Quote

How much utility do the binoculars on scopeless weapons provide?  If a weapon doesn’t have a scope, it’s not going to be effective at scope range so the binoculars are solely a scouting tool, which isn’t really necessary anymore in the high definition age.  Don’t you think each scopeless weapon having a unique alt-fire is more interesting than useless binoculars?  Couldn’t these alt-fires supply the close range sandbox with the diversity it so desperately needs?  

Yes. i suppose.  lets just make sure we avoid any Halo 4 pocket-shotty situations again. Still, if there are going to be alt-fire on weapons I don't think I would want to reuse the zoom button for it.  This would be a good time for the... wait for it... w a i t    f o r    i t .....

Spoiler

D-Pad

 

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1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

TEDIORE. loved that shit.  Borderlands 3 worth it?

Haven’t played it yet but I enjoyed the first two.  
 

1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

if there are going to be alt-fire on weapons I don't think I would want to reuse the zoom button for it.  This would be a good time for the D-Pad


The buttons for Fire and Alt-fire need to be quickly and easily accessible.  Having to fumble with the D pad would make alt fire useless.  

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5 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Doom Eternal (I think it's a worse game in almost every way than the predecessor)

How do you think the gameplay is worse? I can understand preferring 2016's visual cohesion, but damn near everything else was improved upon in the sequel.

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