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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

You like soggy fries? Ew man. Ew.

Your tears had so much salt in them they practically dried them and kept em crunchy 

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8 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

This is just getting weird now.

Lol ikr let’s stop. 
So if infinite were to release in parts would you be ok with that or think 343 are idiots for doing so? 

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3 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Lol ikr let’s stop. 
So if infinite were to release in parts would you be ok with that or think 343 are idiots for doing so? 

Only if multiplayer was developed as a separate entity like Halo 2. If it was designed alongside campaign rather than separately then it'll be a mistake to release them separately.

That's opinion not fact.

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If multiplayer is complete, with all objective game modes in, no game-breaking bugs, no missing forge or theatre, etc. I'd be ok with a separate release. And for whatever the reason is, you could get away with almost anything by saying the Campaign fell behind due to COVID and making sure it's perfect while also releasing the multiplayer when it's ready.

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Separate releases could work if multiplayer was following the campaign release. Releasing multiplayer first will remove a lot of the "wow" factor from the new features that 343 will want to highlight in the campaign. 343 is not that out of touch; it knows things like the grappling hook appeal to campaign players, not the hardcore (in the abstract sense) multiplayer fans.

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10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Only if multiplayer was developed as a separate entity like Halo 2. If it was designed alongside campaign rather than separately then it'll be a mistake to release them separately.

That's opinion not fact.

Wait what do you mean by developed separately? I don’t know about h2s development so I’m curious by this 

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2 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

343 is not that out of touch; it knows things like the grappling hook appeal to campaign players, not the hardcore (in the abstract sense) multiplayer fans.

Lol you obviously haven’t read the comments who hate it because they find it unrealistic how there’s a hook that can lift a spartan suit but don’t know in many comics there is one. 

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9 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

Separate releases could work if multiplayer was following the campaign release. Releasing multiplayer first will remove a lot of the "wow" factor from the new features that 343 will want to highlight in the campaign. 343 is not that out of touch; it knows things like the grappling hook appeal to campaign players, not the hardcore (in the abstract sense) multiplayer fans.

I hadn't thought of this. This makes a lot of sense to me.

 

7 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Wait what do you mean by developed separately? I don’t know about h2s development so I’m curious by this 

The absolute TLDR is that Bungie wanted this big "War" mode for Halo 2 instead of Arena (Big AI battle with players either side) but no-one put any thought into it. Max, who had done a bunch of random jobs at Bungie from coding to web and UX design, begged Jason Jones (the head of Halo 2) to work on Halo 2 Arena as he had some good ideas.

Jason did this and gave him a single engineer. So the two of them worked on Halo 2 MP, entirely separate from the campaign which was in chaos. Max and his engineer worked on maps and gameplay in their own little part of the office, never really talking to other teams. 

This duo invented matchmaking. Invented "lobbies" and "parties" (Parties were originally called "the virtual couch" in production so you get where he was coming from). 

Anyway. Because MP was separate, the only issues were that movement/weapons were tied to campaign so when the campaign changed the files the multiplayer files changed (e.g. if they change the weapon damage in Campaign, weapon damage changed in MP). This is what caused the melee issues on day 1 (6 melee's to kill with a BR!) amongst a host of other issues (BR spread was made to make the campaign harder but it broke MP) and were fixed in a patch.

But this is why Halo 2's campaign is a hackjob (impressive hackjob, but hackjob nonetheless) and it's multiplayer was revolutionary and exploded the entire industry, let alone Xbox. It's because it was made by two people, with some artist who helped them every now and then to pretty up the maps, separately from the single player.

If you're interested in this, I'd recommend listening to this: 

 

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A pick up that enhances jump.  

 

The Gravity Gauntlet propels an airborne player forward a short distance (forward being whatever direction the player is facing).  If this extra bit of forward propulsion causes the player to reach a ledge, he automatically clambers up it.   

It’s like an invisible, hitscan grappling hook with an optional clamber finisher.  The clamber animation allows players to aim at a ledge, because they can’t aim where they want to go, above it, and still get to where they want to go.  

By adding a Lunge before the Clamber, the Gravity Gauntlet has created a sphere of potentially clamberable ledges around the user.  Furthermore, the Lunge always occurs while the Clamber only occurs if a ledge is reached.  This means that it can be used as an omni-directional airborne-thruster as well as a climbing tool.  

Moving the player model with gravitational force, rather than physically climbing up a ledge, allows for a quicker, smoother animation.  Placing the item on the player model’s left hand communicates to players what is happening but doesn’t disable the user’s right-handed weapon.  

Mapping the item’s function to “Jump while Airborne” creates a pick-up that enhances one of the player’s base abilities.  In a franchise that has generally failed to nail movement enhancing pick-ups (Speedboost, Jetpack), the Gravity Grauntlet elegantly enhances player movement in a way that is not incompatible with arena play.  

 

It’s quick but has a short range.  It’s omni-directional but it has rules.  It can be activated instantly but only after you’re airborne.  

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On 10/15/2020 at 11:16 PM, _Synapse said:

Dear god, I DESPISE  the self-styled pro-SBMM crowd. 

"Oh? You don't want to be sweating for your life, game after game, in unranked modes? Lol u just want ez pubstomp i'm very intelligent" 

The amount of mental and physical effort expended by two zero-skill teams and two top-skilled teams, in a competitive game against each other, is NOT EQUAL. Even at a moderately high level, playing equally skilled opponents requires a lot of effort. It's not like when Timmy and Jimmy's teams match each other and fuck around in ghosts while using detached turrets.

When you have to expend that effort, game after game after game after fucking game -  in a mode that's meant to be social, it becomes extremely exhausting to play, extremely quickly. 

 

Removing SBMM wouldn't even fucking hurt the lower skilled players. Sure, they're matching more skilled players on average, but they have a ranked mode that they can play in if they find themselves matching gods in social modes. Even then, players who are so outrageously skilled that they ruin the game for everybody else -  comprise less than 3% of a game's population. 

Most people supporting SBMM either:

1) Have an average playtime of two hours per week. 

2) Are too mediocre to match sweaty opponents.

 

Yes I know this is a dead horse but this argument keeps getting revived on Twitter and the usual braindead replies keep pouring out of the sewer grates

I think it can be handled more intelligently than it has been.  New players should be eased in a bit.  Nothing will make you throw away a game faster than getting totally stomped your first couple games.  People need to get hooked first, then let them get stomped on occasionally.  I would never have it be as tight as ranked, but it can be a little tighter or looser based on play time.  If you're playing all the time, open that shit up.  If you haven't played in a while or only play occasionally make it find tighter matches.  SBMM in social doesn't have to be bad, the implementation has just historically sucked.  Its barely looser than ranked and is on all the time. They're doing surgery with a screwdriver.

 

On 10/17/2020 at 8:17 PM, S0UL FLAME said:

They are cursed. I am thoroughly convinced that they are cursed.

Halo didn't get the mercy death it needed, and the rightful resurrection and claim to fame. It's just been slogging through, being bashed in the mouth by its devs, its fanbase, its critics. Even with a free multiplayer, or a decent Forge, the fact remains that the devs still don't understand how to make a proper Halo after eight years.

They are beyond help.

i thought this after Halo 4.  I honestly hoped that the game would kind of just... fall off the radar. Pull a DOOM and just disappear for a while. Come back with a classic game and kick ass.  But nope. Kept trying to milk the name and now the teat is dry.

 

On 10/20/2020 at 12:08 PM, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

Separate releases could work if multiplayer was following the campaign release. Releasing multiplayer first will remove a lot of the "wow" factor from the new features that 343 will want to highlight in the campaign. 343 is not that out of touch; it knows things like the grappling hook appeal to campaign players, not the hardcore (in the abstract sense) multiplayer fans.

What wow factors though? Like equipment? imo good campaign "wow" factors are entirely dependent on carefully designed set pieces or story beats.  Not this piece of equipment or gun or whatever.  None of that would be spoiled by a multiplayer-only release.  I think its better to get the F2P multiplayer out first, if you're going to do it in 2 parts.  Do the thing that has 0 barrier to entry and get some engagement first then do the thing that costs money and keep them in the same UI.

I dont really care which way it goes honestly, I just want it not to suck. Which is probably a tall enough order as it is.

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I've cooled down a bit on the SBMM thing, but my opinion still stands. Given Menke's tweets, I don't think it'll be going away anytime soon in Halo. 

I wish game devs did more to make casual players play ranked if they wanted matches against their equivalents. Right now, they're just screwing over everyone who's good at the game for players who play twice a week. It's not gonna happen because of retention, but still. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I've cooled down a bit on the SBMM thing, but my opinion still stands. Given Menke's tweets, I don't think it'll be going away anytime soon in Halo. 

I wish game devs did more to make casual players play ranked if they wanted matches against their equivalents. Right now, they're just screwing over everyone who's good at the game for players who play twice a week. It's not gonna happen because of retention, but still. 

Shame. The problem with ranked for casuals is people like me or you who care about winning and we may get a bit salty( or at least I do) when they play rank and don’t give two shits and play it like they’re playing social. But now you have the question then what’s the problem? Well the main problem is they don’t care about losing but they do care about losing significantly. No one wants to play a game where they lose 6-50 with 2-4 guys on the other team all in double digit kills. They want even games. SBMM is fair it’s just annoying for us that are good because unfortunately we’re the minority. Although we’re slowly increasing 

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3 hours ago, _Synapse said:

I've cooled down a bit on the SBMM thing, but my opinion still stands. Given Menke's tweets, I don't think it'll be going away anytime soon in Halo. 

I wish game devs did more to make casual players play ranked if they wanted matches against their equivalents. Right now, they're just screwing over everyone who's good at the game for players who play twice a week. It's not gonna happen because of retention, but still. 

My biggest issue with it is it murders playing with friends. If I play with my friends who have played a hell of a lot less Halo than me they get fornicated because SBMM gets all worried and makes them oppose people my level not theirs. Hate it.

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

My biggest issue with it is it murders playing with friends. If I play with my friends who have played a hell of a lot less Halo than me they get fornicated because SBMM gets all worried and makes them oppose people my level not theirs. Hate it.

Good complaints against SBMM:

1) When it creates a system that doesn't enforce party size in team games, and leads to parties matching against solo players.  Clearly the party is going to be at an advantage here unless the solo players are significantly better.

2) When it chooses to match based off the most skilled player in the party (anti-smurf / smurf detection adjustments)...but the lesser skilled players in the party have no possible way to compete at that level.

3) When the system DOES enforce party size -AND- skill match-up in team games to the point that matchmaking times exceed reasonable levels.

 

I don't feel any of these outweigh the arguments in favor of SBMM existing, but merely highlight that the chosen implementation must take those factors into consideration, and there should be some sort of setting to relax guidelines for people playing in groups with substantially wider skill gaps.

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In my opinion we should get rid of SBMM but add enforced partial party matching. Or just give me playlist that’s solo/duo only. H5 quick play aka team social slayer is exactly this and I love it. Although because of SBMM every match is sweaty AF.

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I don't care whether they relax or remove it altogether, I just don't want to match a To4 blue shields in Blackout Team Slayer at 2AM on a Thursday night after picking up the game for the first time in 2 weeks, on a 70 ping connection. 

I'll restate: the effort that Timmy has to put in while playing against Jimmy, to have fun, is nonexistent. 

The effort that I have to put in to have fun, while 3 streamers in a party try to farm me and 3 randoms on Isolation Team Slayer, is much higher.  

Even disregarding SBMM in general, whatever system's used for MCC is fucking stupid. In social slayer, 2/5 games will be 48-50 games where one team won because of a sniper getting a double kill, and the remaining 3/5 are extremely one sided curbstomps that go as far as 18-50. 

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6 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Shame. The problem with ranked for casuals is people like me or you who care about winning and we may get a bit salty( or at least I do) when they play rank and don’t give two shits and play it like they’re playing social. But now you have the question then what’s the problem? Well the main problem is they don’t care about losing but they do care about losing significantly. No one wants to play a game where they lose 6-50 with 2-4 guys on the other team all in double digit kills. They want even games. SBMM is fair it’s just annoying for us that are good because unfortunately we’re the minority. Although we’re slowly increasing 

That's why there's a ranking system in place. 

A significant jump in rank-up difficulty after reaching an arbitrary rank (say, rank 10 or rank 15 or some modern equivalent) would serve as a fairly good sieve. If you're playing to win, you can easily rise past 15. The casual players who want to relax, won't be able to rise past 15 and will stay playing with their equivalents. 

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9 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

That's why there's a ranking system in place. 

A significant jump in rank-up difficulty after reaching an arbitrary rank (say, rank 10 or rank 15 or some modern equivalent) would serve as a fairly good sieve. If you're playing to win, you can easily rise past 15. The casual players who want to relax, won't be able to rise past 15 and will stay playing with their equivalents. 

The problem of the NEED to win is still there. There’s still the players who care to win and these casuals don’t want to deal with that. 343 added challenge to get a skin by getting to rank 20 and a piston reddit just said fuck that because they get rekt all the time, so it turns out even with an incentive these fools won’t play rank 

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If they MUST have SBMM, then I want a very clear difference between "social" and "ranked". My social SBMM should be lower and with their billions of dollars they can get the data to find out just how much lower level I play when I play social. I play very very different in social than I do in ranked.

Again, using this data, they can see when I'm playing with lower skilled friends and adjust accordingly. Ranked should be strict as hell because that is the entire purpose of ranked: to find people your skill and improve to oppose betters. The whole point of social is to... socialise. Relax. Banter.

I should be able to play hyper-rush over-the-top flagrunner mongoose driver and have a laugh in social and not have to watch every single angle and positioning, timing, allies positions, enemy spawns, allied spawns, count enemy grenades and rockets and all the other sweat that comes with ranked.

I like doing all that sometimes, but only when I get a visual representation of my efforts (i.e. a rank) and absolutely not when I hit up Last Resort 1 Bomb with my mates and a pizza, y'know? I want to charge in a full warthog and risk the splaser for the quick plant and not worry about iTz Kronikk who plays every day for 8 hours before browsing porn for two hours, having a wank then complaining online that someone else is the cause of their life going nowhere.

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44 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

iTz Kronikk who plays every day for 8 hours before browsing porn for two hours, having a wank then complaining online that someone else is the cause of their life going nowhere.

Lmao idk who that is but that’s very descriptive lmao. 
but in all seriousness I don’t play too differently besides how I push and what not. Like my aim is on point. My aim is better than the average player and my muscle memory won’t allow me to not strafe in the average encounter 

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Judging by the gameplay we have seen so far, I think the scale of Infinite's 4v4 map's will almost surely be smaller than H5. Possibly somewhere between the "Classic"   scale of H2&3 and H5? What do you guys think? A lack of thrust allows them to use narrower corridors, shorter gaps, and a more compact arena in general, but I'd assume it will still have to be scaled up at-least somewhat to compensate for clamber and sprint. 

 

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1 minute ago, NAK said:

Judging by the gameplay we have seen so far, I think the scale of Infinite's 4v4 map's will almost surely be smaller than H5. Possibly somewhere between the "Classic"   scale of H2&3 and H5? What do you guys think? A lack of thrust allows them to use narrower corridors, shorter gaps, and a more compact arena in general, but I'd assume it will still have to be scaled up at-least somewhat to compensate for clamber and sprint. 

 

I’d imagine we’d have map sizes similar to h4. H4 maps are narrow slightly bigger than previous maps in the past. Haven is a good example of this. 

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23 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I’d imagine we’d have map sizes similar to h4. H4 maps are narrow slightly bigger than previous maps in the past. Haven is a good example of this. 

I could see that. Here is to hoping they allow themselves to experiment with maps, while taking notes from the the staples of the series. 343 has put out some pretty decent maps on average, but many of them simply haven't been very memorable to me, pretty bland at times. 

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9 hours ago, NAK said:

Here is to hoping they allow themselves to experiment with maps, while taking notes form form the the staples of the series.

Increasing the player count of the primary multiplayer game mode would significantly increase the chances of 343 delivering good maps.  

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