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Halo Infinite Discussion

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5 hours ago, Boyo said:

All weapons are operated by three buttons:  RT, LT, and X.  Every function a weapon can perform is activated by these three buttons.  

 

The Triggers 

 

The Magnum uses two buttons to scope and fire.  

RT - Fire 

LT - Scope 

LT+RT - Scoped fire 

 

Two buttons offer three combinations.  The Light Rifle uses these same three button combinations to fire two different types of projectiles.  

RT - Burst fire 

LT - Scope 

LT+RT - Semi auto 

 

The Plasma Pistol, Boltshot, and Gravity Bow function similarly, where RT and LT+RT fire two distinct projectiles.  The difference being, instead of scoping, LT Aims Down Sights.  

RT - Fire 

LT - ADS 

LT+RT - Alt fire 

 

The Mauler forgoes any type of scoping or ADSing in favor or two independent attacks.  RT fires a volley of projectiles, like a shotgun.  LT fires an explosive projectile, like a bruteshot.  

RT - Fire 

LT - Alt fire 

 

The Shotgun functions similarly, where RT and LT activate separate, independent functions.  RT fires a volley of projectiles.  LT activates a flashlight that illuminates dark areas and reveals camo’d players.  

RT - Fire 

LT - Weapon attachment 

 

The X Button 

 

Some weapons, like the Magnum, Mauler, and Shotgun, use the X button to Reload.  Other weapons, like the Plasma Pistol, Boltshot, and Gravity Bow, use the X button to toggle between alternate firemodes.  
 

RT - Fire 

LT - ADS 

LT+RT - Alt fire 

X - toggle between Alt fire 1 and Alt fire 2 

 

By default, the Plasma Pistol uses LT+RT to overcharge a shot.  X toggles alt fire between an overcharged shot and a Plasma Shield.  The Plasma Shield does not disable primary fire like overcharging does.  Plasma bolts can still be fired through a hole in the shield.  

By default, the Boltshot uses LT+RT to charge then fire a lethal-headshot projectile.  X toggles alt fire between a lethal-headshot projectile and a projectile that teleports the user to its point of impact.  

By default, the Gravity Bow uses LT+RT to fire a projectile that creates a Gravity Vortex on impact, tossing nearby things around.  X toggles alt fire between a gravity vortex and a Gravity Anchor that drags down an impacted aerial vehicle.  

 

The Beam Rifle and the Focus Rifle use the X button to toggle between primary and secondary firemodes.  

 

RT - Fire (primary or secondary) 

LT - Scope 

X - toggle between Primary and Secondary fire 

 

The Beam Rifle primary fires an electric projectile that links from the target to nearby players, damaging them as well.  Secondary fire creates an explosive lightning bolt that strikes from the sky down to the ground.  

The Focus Rifle primary fires a beam that damages infantry and gradually reduces the health of all occupants of an impacted vehicle.  Secondary fire charges then fires a laser blast that destroys all that it touches.  

 

The Plasma Repeater and the Energy Sword use the X button to activate a unique ability.  The Plasma Repeater creates two duplicate player models, dual holograms flanking the user on each side, mimicking his movements.  The Energy Sword performs a Thermal Scan, revealing recent enemy footprints. 
 

RT - Fire 

LT - Alt fire 

X - Special Ability

 

Allowing the Scope and Reload buttons to perform alternate functions gives weapons the freedom to be more, to be better.  

I don't agree with many of the alt-fire modes on these weapons, but I definitely agree that alt-fire modes and alternate weapon functions are unique ideas to Halo that it really makes far too little use of. 

The way I see it, there are a few gameplay mechanics that are unique to Halo and not other FPS. Examples are nade tricks, button glitches, and weapon alt fires (Though UT may have done this already, not sure). 

 

For the sandbox, I'm not intrinsically opposed to the idea of giving weapons alt-fires and different functions. The issue is, does Halo have enough depth or variety for these mechanics to have a true use? Are these mechanics skill-rewarding, or are they cheap? How can we balance all of these without ending up in an Overwatch-esque situation, where there's simply far too much to be able to balance effectively? 

Point being, if you want to keep adding more meaningful variety and distinction to a game's sandbox, you also have to proportionally increase the depth of the inverse to said sandbox. Player physics, melee physics, vehicle mechanics, map geometry interaction, power weapon interaction, equipment pickups, are all possible areas of innovation that also allow the sandbox to expand and complexify. 

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My guess for Infinite release date is actually just as soon as possible. People need something to actually play on the new Xbox if they would like to sell it and relying on something like a CoD despite it being so successful probably isn't what they're looking for since its on every platform. If someone were looking at PS5 vs Xbox right now they would be kind of insane to pick the Xbox unless they really really wanted to play something like Halo in the future and didn't own a PC. Its not that surprising since Microsoft has essentially given up the fight and they're trying to (finally) lean on the fact that we almost all game on their PC software too. Both consoles are looking really light on release titles that many people would care a lot about but with the PS5 you know you have the exclusives coming that won't be on any other platform where that just isn't relevant with MS now releasing games on both windows and the xbox

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37 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

My guess for Infinite release date is actually just as soon as possible. People need something to actually play on the new Xbox if they would like to sell it and relying on something like a CoD despite it being so successful probably isn't what they're looking for since its on every platform. If someone were looking at PS5 vs Xbox right now they would be kind of insane to pick the Xbox unless they really really wanted to play something like Halo in the future and didn't own a PC. Its not that surprising since Microsoft has essentially given up the fight and they're trying to (finally) lean on the fact that we almost all game on their PC software too. Both consoles are looking really light on release titles that many people would care a lot about but with the PS5 you know you have the exclusives coming that won't be on any other platform where that just isn't relevant with MS now releasing games on both windows and the xbox

xbox has aquired some good studios and im honestly look forward to that output. obsidian especially is what im looking forward to

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8 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

Why did you feel like Blade Runner was empty? 

Simply what I said. It has amazing visuals but they greatly outweight the depth of the story and characters. It felt it was building for something that didn't really came. The noir ending left me totally cold. Also the one face acting of Ryan Gosling didn't work for me this time. The original felt much more lively and real to me.

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10 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

What are y'alls predictions for Infinites release?

September 2021. They've missed the release, they will delay it to make sure it impresses.

Because it really really doesn't at the moment.

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If the delay was less than six months they would've just rushed it out incomplete like most of 343s releases. This is a holiday 2021 release, maybe September if we're lucky.

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Remember, a delayed 343i game is still going to be a 343i game - just with fewer bugs.

Part of me wants this game to fail, so that the disillusionment actually teaches the Halo playerbase to use more than 5 braincells at any given time. 

Seriously, this is what they deserve for complaining about idiotic shit over legitimate game-breaking issues for the eternity that 343i and Bungie held control of Halo.  

"I don't want to just be miserable all the time about Halo!". Fine then, be as elated as you want while you play with 4K players at peak, while soloQing against a to4 amateurs on smurfs, on 80 ping servers.

If you refuse to hold a game to any standards AND you choose to drown out any other people holding it to a standard, then you deserve a game with no standards. 

I mean what can you expect from casual players? They’re the ones who advocate for AR starts, call BR/precision starts one gun games. Last time I accidentally played that and went 35-0. Lol kids couldn’t do shit to me because all they had was a AR and me my BR and any power weapon I could find.

 

all in all people like that won’t hold the game to any standards. These are the people who like bloom in halo, call it a skill and all that bullshit.

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21 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

People have been complaining about non-sense issues for so long that 343 thinks a return to "classic Halo" is black undersuits.

 

Also if you boys could do me a favor and smash that subscribe button it'd be much appreciated.

 

343 is the ones who think equal Starts is the only thing that makes halo classic. Just because you get one ingredient right doesn’t mean the pie will be any good! 

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

343 is the ones who think equal Starts is the only thing that makes halo classic. Just because you get one ingredient right doesn’t mean the pie will be any good! 

thx for the sub

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You know what really grinds my gears, people who talk about multiplayer and shit and yet play only campaign or firefight. I’m sorry but your opinion means absolutely shit. Kids like that will try contributing to sprint arguments and shit.

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16 hours ago, _Synapse said:

I don't agree with many of the alt-fire modes on these weapons

Which ones?  Why not?  
 

16 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Point being, if you want to keep adding more meaningful variety and distinction to a game's sandbox, you also have to proportionally increase the depth of the inverse to said sandbox. Player physics, melee physics, vehicle mechanics, map geometry interaction, power weapon interaction, equipment pickups, are all possible areas of innovation that also allow the sandbox to expand and complexify. 

Do you?  Not that I’m against expanding upon these other areas of the game but I don’t see how a more diverse sandbox requires deeper melee physics.  

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Which ones?  Why not?  
 

Do you?  Not that I’m against expanding upon these other areas of the game but I don’t see how a more diverse sandbox requires deeper melee physics.  

I think some weapons melees should stun. That be a neat niche. 

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4 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I think some weapons melees should stun. That be a neat niche. 

You may as well just kill the target if they have no shields and can’t move.  

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34 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You may as well just kill the target if they have no shields and can’t move.  

In CE the PR stubs but for most part you’ll pull off the kill easy because of that 

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4 hours ago, NavG123 said:

People have been complaining about non-sense issues for so long that 343 thinks a return to "classic Halo" is black undersuits.

 

Also if you boys could do me a favor and smash that subscribe button it'd be much appreciated.

 

Absolutely on the first point. People tell 343 that open campaigns are what makes Halo, and 343 gives them a still-likely-crap partially open world campaign, along with the same shit multiplayer. 

Also holy fuck that noscope on the ghost

KB/M? I've never seen flicks that precise on controller from anyone except maybe Tim Rager. 

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5 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Absolutely on the first point. People tell 343 that open campaigns are what makes Halo, and 343 gives them a still-likely-crap partially open world campaign, along with the same shit multiplayer. 

Also holy fuck that noscope on the ghost

KB/M? I've never seen flicks that precise on controller from anyone except maybe Tim Rager. 

Yeah I do kbm

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8 hours ago, NavG123 said:

People have been complaining about non-sense issues for so long that 343 thinks a return to "classic Halo" is black undersuits.

 

Also if you boys could do me a favor and smash that subscribe button it'd be much appreciated.

 

Not as good as my splaser tutorial sorry.

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8 hours ago, Boyo said:

Which ones?  Why not?  

In particular, the camo-reveal flashlight. I don't have as big of a problem with the explosive alt-fire mauler, but the principle behind alt-fire needs to be an amplification or specialization of the existing role, imo.

If we give it an alt-fire that occupies a similar role to another weapon, we're essentially reducing the intention to go an pick that other weapon up. 

We can differentiate the alt-fire from the other weapon it would otherwise contest with relative ease, but the point is that the underlying principle of design needs to lean more towards the direction of giving the weapon a more niche role within the role it already performs, rather than leaning to the direction of general-purpose. 

 

8 hours ago, Boyo said:

Do you?  Not that I’m against expanding upon these other areas of the game but I don’t see how a more diverse sandbox requires deeper melee physics.  

Everything in the sandbox: weapons, vehicles, player properties, maps, gamemodes - always in constant interaction with each other. 

If you try to keep adding depth and complexity to a weapons sandbox without touching the other aspects of the game, you'll eventually hit a saturation point - the niches you craft for your weapons don't matter in any practical capacity, and you either end up with a Halo 5 effect or a Halo 3 effect, depending on which direction you lean towards with regards to sandbox lethality. 

For example, weapon interactions with the melee lunge enable you to meaningfully distinguish what would otherwise be a class of weapons that are near clones of one another. 

The more multifaceted weapons you create, the more dimensions they have, and the more specialized they can become. 

For example: 

The shotgun's melee uses the normal damage value, with a 0.3 second melee animation, default range, and a BXB button combo programmed for it. However, the shotgun's spread is fairly tight and with a high damage output that makes it able to OHKO targets with precise shooting at much further ranges than before (from the blue base side of top mid to the red base side of top mid, on Heretic), provided they can accurately place the much slower projectiles (100 world units per second relative the utility weapon's 230 world units per second).

The Mauler's melee uses a slightly higher yet crucial value, which allows the user to kill the opponent in 2 melees, instead of 3. The melee animation lasts 0.2 seconds, with 15% farther range than the default range. The Mauler has a BXB, BXR, and RRBX glitch programmed for it. However, it's spread is extremely wide, being in a 27 by 27 degree circle, and the weapon fires a lot of pellets (several times more than the shotgun), each of which do very tiny amounts of damage. However, these pellets behave like smaller Spiker projectiles, and embed themselves in an opponent for a certain while. 

 

From tweaking small values, the shotgun has become a weapon of pure lethality at CQC while the mauler has become closer to a melee weapon with highly limited ranged capability, and an indispersible tool for flushing out a camo player in close quarters. Without utilizing the depth that the rest of the game enables these two weapons to have, they would most likely have turned out to be more similar to one another. 

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@_Synapse

The Shotgun and the Mauler don’t need specialized melee mechanics to set one apart from the other.  They also don’t need to be confined to just close range combat.  

The Sword and Hammer already have CQC locked down.  The Shotgun and Mauler need to do something else besides deal damage at close range to be unique, effective weapons.  

 

The Magnum fires projectiles that kill in 7 bodyshots.  The Shotgun fires the exact same projectile as a “center slug” although this center slug is also surrounded by 18 pellets with each pellet dealing 1/3 the damage of a Magnum shot.  1 center slug plus 18 pellets at 1/3 damage equals 7 Magnum shots.  7 Magnum shots are lethal ergo one shotgun blast is lethal if all projectiles land.  

A relatively high damage center slug that is accurate out to long range allows the Shotgun to operate outside of close range.  

 

Unlike the Shotgun, the Mauler’s primary fire is not effective past close range.  After traveling a short distance, the diamond-shaped volley of 9 projectiles literally disappears.  The Mauler’s alt fire launches a single explosive projectile that is effective out to medium range.  In addition, the splash can damage players behind cover.  

The Mauler had literally one purpose, the lethal fire-melee combo.  The addition of an explosive alt fire turns the one-note Mauler into a Flak Cannon, one of the best FPS weapons of all time.  

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8 hours ago, Boyo said:

@_Synapse

The Shotgun and the Mauler don’t need specialized melee mechanics to set one apart from the other.  They also don’t need to be confined to just close range combat.  

The Sword and Hammer already have CQC locked down.  The Shotgun and Mauler need to do something else besides deal damage at close range to be unique, effective weapons.  

 

The Magnum fires projectiles that kill in 7 bodyshots.  The Shotgun fires the exact same projectile as a “center slug” although this center slug is also surrounded by 18 pellets with each pellet dealing 1/3 the damage of a Magnum shot.  1 center slug plus 18 pellets at 1/3 damage equals 7 Magnum shots.  7 Magnum shots are lethal ergo one shotgun blast is lethal if all projectiles land.  

A relatively high damage center slug that is accurate out to long range allows the Shotgun to operate outside of close range.  

 

Unlike the Shotgun, the Mauler’s primary fire is not effective past close range.  After traveling a short distance, the diamond-shaped volley of 9 projectiles literally disappears.  The Mauler’s alt fire launches a single explosive projectile that is effective out to medium range.  In addition, the splash can damage players behind cover.  

The Mauler had literally one purpose, the lethal fire-melee combo.  The addition of an explosive alt fire turns the one-note Mauler into a Flak Cannon, one of the best FPS weapons of all time.  

The shotgun you've proposed is fairly similar to the one I proposed, though do you think a significantly slower projectile combined with a spread circle half the area of the reticle and a 50% damage buff would work? 

Essentially, a Flak Cannon but with much more potential at range. I'd treat this weapon like a soft-power weapon (tier 2). 

 

I'm still not really sold by the idea of an explosive alt-fire. My objection is still the same, that it would begin to contest the Brute Shot and the Grenade Launcher. 

The traditional weakness of CQC shotgun-like weapons is that they've got a huge delay in between shots, which causes the weapon to require precise shooting or render the user defenseless in between shots. 

The Mauler's alt-fire turns it into an automatic shotgun, bypassing the vulnerability. However, the alt-fire mode will fire continuously until the 6 rounds in the magazine are emptied, and will leave the user unable to switch weapons during the firing process and also during a 1.75 second cooldown animation following the alt-fire mode. In addition, each shot in the alt-fire mode will produce a huge amount of vertical recoil that will need to be adjusted for. 

This allows for the weapon to become an unparalleled threat in extreme CQC. At the same time, it demands tremendous commitment to the weapon and consumes the already scarce ammo of the gun very quickly. 

I'd have the sword and hammer removed from an ideal Arena mode, which may be affecting my view on CQC weapon design. I think that they become very redundant, and that there's not a lot of ways to balance them. Larger gamemodes on bigger maps that have a lot more player x environment interaction, are better suited to make use of these weapons. 

Thoughts? 

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Is the hit reg update currently live in the non-beta version of MCC or is it only in beta?

 

 

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1 hour ago, NavG123 said:

Is the hit reg update currently live in the non-beta version of MCC or is it only in beta?

Beta. Will go live with ODST and Firefight whenever that is.

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