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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Ranked SHOULD be where bad kids go to play other bad kids. The whole point is to play people of a similar skill level. That frees up social to be the grab bag it’s supposed to be. In a perfect world, ranked would be a safety net for bad players.

No one should ever discourage a bad player from playing ranked. It’s every bit as much theirs as it is a good player’s. And that’s not even factoring in how it bolsters population for a mode that NEEDS it to work properly, or how it helps to move a casual player along the path of becoming a serious player.

Now, idlers and quitters? They can fuck right off in ranked. But a player giving it an honest effort? We need every one we can get.

Well I don’t play at rank recruit or fucking silver most games I play im the highest rank, or 2nd highest division. My biggest problem is these people don’t play to win. Like you’re in ranked I want you to care somewhat to win. 
@_Synapse halo should just use the radar where you appear only if you shoot. No one can complain about that radar. Many games use a radar like this(it’s also a mini map to show you where you’re at on the map) and it doesn’t break the game. Doesn’t break flanking, or possible back smacks. This could also negate crouch corner campers. 

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The biggest reason casuals don’t play rank is because of the desire to win. People like me get a little tilted that you care very little to win. Infinite should provide an incentive to win. Armors or skins, or armor and skins that you get by winning X matches in ranked in a row, getting to onyx or champion get this armor or skin etc. double XP for playing ranked. So many ways you could convince people to play ranked. 
 

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Imagine a cool ass armor and skin that you get only if you win 20 ranked matches in the arena playlist. Just to ensure good players can’t hop on Smurf’s. MMR will help ensure that smurf ends up in onyx or 

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I think part of it has to do with the name. “Ranked”, “Competitive”, “Hardcore” all tend to push away people that don’t play very much or don’t take the game seriously. I think the vast majority of players like playing evenly matched games most of the time, and most players try their best to win most of the time. That’s ranked gameplay. They’re just not choosing it. I’ve always thought branding had a lot to do with it.

I would be perfectly okay with rebranding the categories away from “ranked/ social” and towards “tight skill matching/ loose skill matching”. Then you could just name the playlists normal shit like “Arena” and not this gatekeeeping bullshit like “Hardcore”, “MLG” or “HCS”. Just present the game’s best settings like they’re normal settings.

People will play whatever is presented as normal. Look no further than the excellent doubles players in H3 sweating it out in ARs KotH on Cold Storage with 3sec respawns, Radar and equipment. Or look at how popular the Arena playlist was in H5 when it wasn’t getting branded as HCS. This shit matters if you want a decent population.

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10 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I think part of it has to do with the name. “Ranked”, “Competitive”, “Hardcore” all tend to push away people that don’t play very much or don’t take the game seriously. I think the vast majority of players like playing evenly matched games most of the time, and most players try their best to win most of the time. That’s ranked gameplay. They’re just not choosing it. I’ve always thought branding had a lot to do with it.

I would be perfectly okay with rebranding the categories away from “ranked/ social” and towards “tight skill matching/ loose skill matching”. Then you could just name the playlists normal shit like “Arena” and not this gatekeeeping bullshit like “Hardcore”, “MLG” or “HCS”. Just present the game’s best settings like they’re normal settings.

People will play whatever is presented as normal. Look no further than the excellent doubles players in H3 sweating it out in ARs KotH on Cold Storage with 3sec respawns, Radar and equipment. Or look at how popular the Arena playlist was in H5 when it wasn’t getting branded as HCS. This shit matters if you want a decent population.

The problem is you cannot trust 343 with creating competitive settings on their own. The exact branding really doesn't matter because the devs will always draw the line between their idea of settings and ours. Thus always presenting their version as normal and ours as a more competitive mode in whatever language they decide to use. Its useful for them so that their devs can feel like both sides are right about balancing rather than having to take a definitive stand and admit when they're wrong. We're just lucky we get a playlist. If they could leave that mentality behind and just simply improve upon their own settings so that the normal version of the game is the same as tournament gameplay settings (because they're just better) it would help a lot. They might even be inspired to do something about all of the stupid and cheesy weapons we delete and instead balance them appropriately. Unfortunately that's higher effort by orders of magnitude than we've ever received from any Halo developer and this is why it works out so well for many popular esports today and doesn't work for Halo. Unlike a lot of other games we've had time to develop settings and understand what they do and how they impact playing a competitive game and for some reason the actual playlist designers stand in the way of that like a roadblock protecting their own vision of the game where in other series the developers have been iterating and designing towards their ideal competitive game instead of being presented with a real counter argument and being forced to support both.

It all goes back to bungie not being in control of settings and tournaments for competitive play and letting it grow outside of their influence. Its hard to take back control once you lose it and harder still if you fight the competitive community you supposedly support now. 343 is fence sitting and flip flopping with games like Halo 5 where they try to force their vision and then over time get backed down. Until their actual gameplay design and decisions directly support the way people have been conditioned to play and view competitive Halo it will be an eternal struggle unless they're willing to kill the competitive scene outright and start over with a new generation of players

Its a problem when you can easily hand out the Charles Barkley guarantee on knowing the settings will be trash before you even see them if its 343 solo and know you'll be right lol. So I guess step 1 is to create universal settings that people would willingly play and then they can talk about the rest

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

I think part of it has to do with the name. “Ranked”, “Competitive”, “Hardcore” all tend to push away people that don’t play very much or don’t take the game seriously. I think the vast majority of players like playing evenly matched games most of the time, and most players try their best to win most of the time. That’s ranked gameplay. They’re just not choosing it. I’ve always thought branding had a lot to do with it.

I would be perfectly okay with rebranding the categories away from “ranked/ social” and towards “tight skill matching/ loose skill matching”. Then you could just name the playlists normal shit like “Arena” and not this gatekeeeping bullshit like “Hardcore”, “MLG” or “HCS”. Just present the game’s best settings like they’re normal settings.

People will play whatever is presented as normal. Look no further than the excellent doubles players in H3 sweating it out in ARs KotH on Cold Storage with 3sec respawns, Radar and equipment. Or look at how popular the Arena playlist was in H5 when it wasn’t getting branded as HCS. This shit matters if you want a decent population.

1. People are not that stupid where they won’t be able to realize x playlist is the competitive playlist/ranked. 
2. We need just one ranked playlist, you know like every other esport game. 

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7 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

1. People are not that stupid where they won’t be able to realize x playlist is the competitive playlist/ranked. 
2. We need just one ranked playlist, you know like every other esport game. 

Dude we’ve literally already seen it in H5. Plus loads of other games do it too. You’re still thinking with a mindset about ranked that this is designed to change.

And no. We need ranked 4’s, 2’s, FFA and a rotational.

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9 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

The biggest reason casuals don’t play rank is because of the desire to win. People like me get a little tilted that you care very little to win. Infinite should provide an incentive to win. Armors or skins, or armor and skins that you get by winning X matches in ranked in a row, getting to onyx or champion get this armor or skin etc. double XP for playing ranked. So many ways you could convince people to play ranked. 
 

Getting really cool skins for reaching a certain rank is damn good idea. 

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18 hours ago, Boyo said:

Crouching transforms the player model, modifying its size and shape.  Are there any other instances where modifying the player model is acceptable?  

i love the question you ask, but this was all i could think of after reading this

 

TAg7c4b.png

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29 minutes ago, Gold said:

Getting really cool skins for reaching a certain rank is damn good idea. 

I'm still trying to get the Not Forgotten in Destiny. (You have to hit the highest competitive rank to acquire it) 
Those incentives are important. Maybe a cool armor effect like flamess covering your gloves or the gun itself.

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18 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

I'm still trying to get the Not Forgotten in Destiny. (You have to hit the highest competitive rank to acquire it) 
Those incentives are important. Maybe a cool armor effect like flamess covering your gloves or the gun itself.

It would have to be something distinctive and actually cool. They tried a bit with the Achilles armor in Halo 5 but because they have so many variations on armor it all just kind of blends together. It would have to be a weapon skin or like a pack of different beatdown animations or something so that it at the least looks notably cooler/different for the person using it if nothing else. Its also cool to see on other players if the skin or effect was nice enough but it needs to feel cool to use yourself too and the armor skins totally fail at that in Halo since its first person.

It could even be as simple as adding a little animated chain/ring with your emblem on it that hangs off your primary weapon somewhere visible. They could also give emblems (not seasonal ones) that are animated and VERY different from the usual selection based on reaching an impressive rank. Like in H5 it could've just been the icon for diamond/gold/onyx/silver/whatever and when you got to champion you got an animated emblem with the highest champion rank you've ever made it to. They just really need to slow down and do something different and special without going overboard. Like if they did an animated emblem they would need to first make sure that no emblems were animated except for the very special ones so that nobody would be confused and it would obviously be different and notable to get the incentive right otherwise it'll just get lost in a sea of random effects

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4 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

It would have to be something distinctive and actually cool. They tried a bit with the Achilles armor in Halo 5 but because they have so many variations on armor it all just kind of blends together. It would have to be a weapon skin or like a pack of different beatdown animations or something so that it at the least looks notably cooler/different for the person using it if nothing else. Its also cool to see on other players if the skin or effect was nice enough but it needs to feel cool to use yourself too and the armor skins totally fail at that in Halo since its first person 

There can't be so many sets of armor. Individual pieces lose their identity amongst the masses. 

 

H3 where this started: 

Haybusa - skulls

EOD - legendary campaign 

Scout - FFA prowess(ik people farmed those) 

Security - H3 gamerscore

Recon - community spotlight, then vidmasters

 

Every one of the pieces had a set difficulty and the expectations behind seeing most people with them. If there are 20 sets of armor, how am I supposed to tell what is what? 

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32 minutes ago, Obnokshus said:

There can't be so many sets of armor. Individual pieces lose their identity amongst the masses. 

 

H3 where this started: 

Haybusa - skulls

EOD - legendary campaign 

Scout - FFA prowess(ik people farmed those) 

Security - H3 gamerscore

Recon - community spotlight, then vidmasters

 

Every one of the pieces had a set difficulty and the expectations behind seeing most people with them. If there are 20 sets of armor, how am I supposed to tell what is what? 

This is a great point. I think helmets, since helmets are the most distinctive feature of the Spartan model, should be limited to a select few. 343 can go crazy with shoulder pads, chest pieces, shin guards, skins, etc. That seems to be a good way to strike a balance between ultimate customization and preserving the significance of a piece of armor.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Dude we’ve literally already seen it in H5. Plus loads of other games do it too. You’re still thinking with a mindset about ranked that this is designed to change.

And no. We need ranked 4’s, 2’s, FFA and a rotational.

I mean have we? In h5 the same people playing arena are the same people who played it when it was called HCS. It’s been forever though since I played h5. 
4,2s, and ffa I think are ok since in halo we see esport tournaments for these all the time. Give the doubles kids a place. 

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9 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

This is a great point. I think helmets, since helmets are the most distinctive feature of the Spartan model, should be limited to a select few. 343 can go crazy with shoulder pads, chest pieces, shin guards, skins, etc. That seems to be a good way to strike a balance between ultimate customization and preserving the significance of a piece of armor.

Multiplayer unlocks if they aren't going to be unique one off objectives NEED to be difficult, like in the order of hundreds or thousands difficult. Just off the top of my head: 

-Achieve the highest possible rank in a ranked playlist. 

-5,000 Sniper headshots in a ranked playlist

-1,000 wins in a ranked playlist 

If you want people to grind for armor, covetable armor at the very least, the objectives need to be high. 

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Note: This is a pretty low-importance topic so anything that 343 can realistically come up with is alright, but while we're brainstorming an ideal way this would be handled, -

 

Armor Customization: Players can select unique anatomical pieces for their armor's-

(For reference, Reach has 21 unique helmets)

Helmet (~ 20 variants in total)

• Visor Color

Upper Torso Armor, or Breastplate (~ 20 variants in total)

Lower Torso Armor (~ 20 variants in total)

• Left & Right Pauldrons (~ 10 variants in total)

Left & Right Bicep Armor (~ 10 variants in total)

Left & Right Forearm Armor (~ 8 variants in total)

• Left & Right Gauntlet (~ 5 variants in total)

Left & Right Thigh Armor (~ 8 variants in total)

Left & Right Knee Guards (~ 5 variants in total)

Left & Right Calf Armor (~ 8 variants in total) 

• Left & Right Boots (~ 5 variants in total) 

• Shield Projectors

Each of these can individually have their color tweaked on an RGBA selector, along with weathering/damage. 

In addition to these, the anatomical pieces in italics can have certain attachments to their armor (Imagine what Reach allowed you to do with your helmet). A fair portion of these attachments are shared between all anatomical pieces, but there are a few attachments to each of said piece that are unique to only that piece. 

 

Unlocking System: Players must unlock anatomical pieces and attachments, but color/weathering options do not need to be. 

Each unique variant is not unlocked individually, but along with other variants for different anatomical pieces, which share a design aesthetic. Anatomical pieces that are unlocked along with others in sets have a matching number of variants. For example: all variants for boots, knee guards, and gauntlets, come in sets. The reasoning being that it's dumb to individually unlock each anatomical piece that belongs to a certain armor set. 

Armor sets are unlocked through a variety of ways, namely:

• Campaign Achievements.

• PvE proficiency (note how I said proficiency and not "your ability to sit in Gruntpocalypse firefight on Easy for 5 hours and milk"). This includes completion of missions on hardest difficulties, the completion of missions with certain skulls turned on, and the completion of missions with a certain skill grading (presumably using the system that Hard Way mentioned earlier). 

• Meeting XP requirements. 

• Reaching certain competitive ranks, as well as reaching those ranks in specific playlists. 

• Matchmaking achievements. These achievements require skill, a willingness to grind, or both (The idea being not to alienate people who'll never be able to reach a certain skill bar from grinding nonetheless). The harder the difficulty of the achievement, the more prestigiously designed and aesthetically pleasing  the armor is. 

• Community Involvement. For example, a unique armor set for uploading a custom map that receives over 500 downloads. Or, a unique armor set for playing in a tournament. Or, a unique armor set for being a well-known content creator for the game. 

 

Yeah this is over the top and 343i will release a good Halo game before they even consider anything like this, but I think it'd be cool to see them invest the effort in designing something like this regardless. 

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11 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

I'm still trying to get the Not Forgotten in Destiny. (You have to hit the highest competitive rank to acquire it) 
Those incentives are important. Maybe a cool armor effect like flamess covering your gloves or the gun itself.

I wish that it was a meta archetype right now. I've been putting off grinding for it because of how sweaty games get and I can't keep up so I switch shortly into the match every single time.

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Agreed if you need to delineate your competitive settings from your standard setting more than removing radar and the auto secondary, your game is broken.

Other basic rules.

1. Stop giving the competitive list a scary name.

2. Have more than just the current competition match pool in ranked.  Include maybe half a dozen other combos.  Use them as test types for future seasons and to give the list more variety.

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1 hour ago, Knighty Knight said:

"Esports Matchmaking" sounds way more inviting.

Professional Video Game Matchmaking

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If we don'f want ranked play to completely get fucked over, then it needs to have a match composer developed for it. Or, the match composer needs to be retroactively removed from social play. 

Don't misunderstand me -  the match composer is a great thing. The practicality of being able to search for specific player counts, specific games, and specific modes simultaneously, is very high. The problem is that the convenience of being able to search for TS, Snipers, SWAT, the rotational playlist of the week, Objective, and Precision starts means that people simply don't bother to try out ranked play because of the relative inconvenience. 

Ranked play deserves a match composer of it's own, and the match composer in general needs a few more tweaks and fine-tunes. 

 

Some I thought of - 

• The ability to search for multiple player counts simultaneously would drastically cut down player wait times across each of them. Head to Head and Doubles wouldn't take ages. (Social and Ranked)

• Halo 5 focused/balanced/expanded search options. (Social and Ranked) 

• The ability to enable your party being able to match evenly-numbered parties or above (but not below, for obvious reasons). (Social and Ranked)

• Optional max ping limits. This is already basically happening via regional browser selection, and you can use a backdoor method and block servers you don't want to get games on entirely, though 343 aren't happy about it. (Social and Ranked)

• Revised gamemode selection options for ranked play. For example, Objective and Precision Slayer need to combined into a simple "Arena" or "MLG" selector. In cases that people have certain games toggled with  gamemodes that don't exist or would be terrible for ranked play in said game (eg: CE toggled along with "Arena" or "MLG"), it will simply not provide them games with that game-gamemode specific selection (So you'd only get slayer games in CE 2s with Team Arena enabled). Kind of what happens in the existing match composer when you select CE in 12 player FFA infection. (Ranked)

• The ability to view your playlist rank without having to leave the match composer, preferably displayed in a small window whenever you move your selection to a certain gamemode. For example, having CE + 2 + 3 enabled and moving your selector to doubles will bring up a dialog that shows you your doubles rank for each of those 3 games. (Ranked)

• Expanded selection variety. Team Arena, Snipers, SWAT (dumb but whatever), Lone Wolves, BTB, Doubles, Head to Head, etc. should all be available. There's no reason not to when people can search for all of them simultaneously. 

 

There's unfortunately no resolving the true "root" of the current ranked vs casual split, because the divergences between the two are caused by the fundamental problem that the settings and sandbox in one are just incompatible in the other. This is only something that a game with decent sandbox design can solve, which unfortunately doesn't include the games on MCC with the highest populations. 

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I think the ability to search multiple ranked playlists at once would solve most of the problems. Then just offer permanent 2xp for all ranked lists with a different list getting 3xp every week.

Searching multiple player counts at once in social would be a godsend. I know I’d play a lot more 2v2 and FFA if it was available.

And @_Synapse how dare you say CE Arena would be terrible for ranked? Lol I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I would play the flying shit out of ranked CE 4’s.

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On 9/4/2020 at 2:59 PM, Boyo said:

Crouching transforms the player model, modifying its size and shape.  Are there any other instances where modifying the player model is acceptable?  

Power Up - Camo - invisifies player model 

Equipment - Hologram - duplicate player model runs forward 

Weapon - Plasma Repeater - two duplicate player models flank user on each side

Armor Ability - Evade - size/shape of player model are briefly modified while diving 

Armor Ability - Sphere - persistent reduction in player model size/shape while in use 

Power Up - Sandman - player model can be toggled between a throw rug, a sarlacc pit, and the upper body of large humanoid sandman 

Power Up - Extermination - player model is surrounded by three flood spores 

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I think the ability to search multiple ranked playlists at once would solve most of the problems. Then just offer permanent 2xp for all ranked lists with a different list getting 3xp every week.

Searching multiple player counts at once in social would be a godsend. I know I’d play a lot more 2v2 and FFA if it was available.

And @_Synapse how dare you say CE Arena would be terrible for ranked? Lol I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I would play the flying shit out of ranked CE 4’s.

I meant CE Objective, I'm not sure how many maps in that lineup would play well for most Objective modes

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5 hours ago, Boyo said:

Power Up - Camo - invisifies player model 

Equipment - Hologram - duplicate player model runs forward 

Weapon - Plasma Repeater - two duplicate player models flank user on each side

Armor Ability - Evade - size/shape of player model are briefly modified while diving 

Armor Ability - Sphere - persistent reduction in player model size/shape while in use 

Power Up - Sandman - player model can be toggled between a throw rug, a sarlacc pit, and the upper body of large humanoid sandman 

Power Up - Extermination - player model is surrounded by three flood spores 

How do you feel about Clamber altering the player model, now that it's confirmed Clamber is in the game? It seems like something that intuitively has to alter the player model if 343 wants the animations to make sense.

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