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Open World fucking blows lol. The number of OW games I've played with any of the following:

• Fun, and extremely challenging gameplay

• Dynamic, non repetitive gameplay

• Intricately crafted worlds that aren't one square kilometer copy-pasted 300 times with minor changes

• Interesting environments and aesthetics

 

Is practically negative at this point. A linear campaign that nails good gameplay will blow any OW game out of the water. 

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57 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I'm just quietly amused at how 343 is doing nothing to quell the "open world" marketing magic that Infinite is leaning on. I'm sure everyone who's paying even the slightest amount of critical attention understands that a Halo game could never be The Witcher 3, but it's still funny to watch 343 basically like, "hmm? Oh yeah, yeah open world. Yeah totally. Open. Yep."

I mean there’s potential. 
there can be hire marines or Spartans to assist you, side missions, world affecting changes, bases, etc. they could add some RTS elements in there. Idk if any of you have played mount and warband but the fun of that game is to be a single individual  controlling an army. There’s lots of potential actually. With all the Req weapons I guarantee you that’ll be in this game, shitttt there’s potential weapon upgrades right there.
 

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48 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I mean there’s potential. 
there can be hire marines or Spartans to assist you, side missions, world affecting changes, bases, etc. they could add some RTS elements in there. Idk if any of you have played mount and warband but the fun of that game is to be a single individual  controlling an army. There’s lots of potential actually. With all the Req weapons I guarantee you that’ll be in this game, shitttt there’s potential weapon upgrades right there.
 

every word you typed was worse than the last

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Open World fucking blows lol. The number of OW games I've played with any of the following:

• Fun, and extremely challenging gameplay

• Dynamic, non repetitive gameplay

• Introcately crafted worlds that aren't one square kilometer copy-pasted 300 times with minor changes

• Interesting environments and aesthetics

 

Is practically negative at this point. A linear campaign that nails good gameplay will blow any OW game out of the water. 

Sounds like you’ve only played the mediocre Ubisoft or Bethesda games. There are plenty of open world games that match those descriptions: Baldur’s Gate, Witcher 3, BotW, New Vegas, Dark Souls (not fully open world but close enough), etc. Cyberpunk looks to be a good contender, too.

But it’s also a matter of perspective. If you only like arena shooters then you’re never going to enjoy something like Baldur’s Gate or Planescape no matter how good they are, which isn’t something you can fault them for. It’s a different market.

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I feel like open world games provide a different type of experience than linear games. If I want an incredibly tight experience, linear I believe is the only way to go. But in an open world game you find your joy elsewhere. You make the world interesting to explore. You make movement fun. You create an environment that's fun to play around in.

I kind of disagree with some of the examples in SpitFlame's post. Not that he doesn't suggest some good open world games (although I've never played Baldur's Gate or Witcher 3), but I don't think a lot of them necessarily are counterpoints to Synapse's claims other than the "one square kilometer copy-pasted 300 times with minor changes" and "Interesting environments and aesthetics" which I feel there's many open world games that fit that description. Anyway, I'd say open world games do other things that simply wouldn't be possible in a linear game, or I don't think would be as interesting.

I never really liked combat in Zelda games, but I loved discovering new parts of the world or new enemies. The exploration and figuring out how to conquer everything you come across was fun, even if grinding through shrines in the case of Breath of the Wild wasn't that enjoyable for me. Fallout New Vegas and probably Witcher 3 I'd put in this same camp as well.

In a game like Spiderman or Assassin's Creed, I'd say moving around the world is so enjoyable and I don't think it would be as fun in a linear game. Forza Horizon would be another example. Racing around a track has some appeal to me, but not as much as just cruising whatever roads I like, or randomly driving off a cliff, or doing whatever I wanted. Spiderman had some linear moments and those were great, but if I couldn't swing around the city I would have been disappointed.

As for the environment being fun to play in. I mean that's basically Grand Theft Auto's whole shtick right? I don't think anybody has ever thought the gunplay in Grand Theft Auto was exciting. Stealing a car, getting a high wanted level, breaking into a military base to steal a plane, then getting shot out of the air could be a level in a linear game or it could just be part of the open world for you to play in.

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31 minutes ago, Xandrith said:

every word you typed was worse than the last

I don’t see you coming up with anything smart ass.

evedything I listed could work great in an open world halo game like infinite 

hiring marines or spartan 4s to help attack bases.

maybe even controlling armies RTS style to attack larger bases. 

I think shadow of war open world is best for halo. 
 

req weapons as upgrades that you can purchase through money or points you earn through kills.

hecks something similar to lord of the rings shadow of war be really cool. 
 

you don’t like open world games I get that, so you can’t make a sound opinion on them since no matter what you’ll never get what you want from them. 

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16 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Hitscan vs. Projectile

I really enjoyed reading this. I just shared it with two of my friends who don't typically go out of their way to read in-depth stuff like this but are interested in the topic.

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9 hours ago, JordanB said:

"Halo Infinite isn't fully open world, but you can explore previous areas"

https://www.windowscentral.com/halo-infinite-isnt-fully-open-world-you-can-explore-previous-areas

Not sure if this has been discussed yet but I think this is really great news for the campaign. 

9 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I don't know if backtracking is what people had in mind when they heard "open world".

That'll be $60. Campaign only, take it or leave it.

 

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11 minutes ago, aa_Pregnant_Nun said:

That'll be $60. Campaign only, take it or leave it.

 

I bet campaign And forge will be paywall based. Or firefight if it’s there day 1. 

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2 hours ago, SpitFlame said:

Sounds like you’ve only played the mediocre Ubisoft or Bethesda games. There are plenty of open world games that match those descriptions: Baldur’s Gate, Witcher 3, BotW, New Vegas, Dark Souls (not fully open world but close enough), etc. Cyberpunk looks to be a good contender, too.

But it’s also a matter of perspective. If you only like arena shooters then you’re never going to enjoy something like Baldur’s Gate or Planescape no matter how good they are, which isn’t something you can fault them for. It’s a different market.

To me, I really just need #1 and #2. The rest are all expectations that are held for a high-quality open world game. 

I tried FNV and TW3, and the combat alone bored me out of playing. 

Though you're not wrong in claiming that it's primarily Ubisoft games that ruined my appreciation of the genre. All I can say, is that Assassin's Creed is the biggest farce of a video "game" to ever exist.

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14 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

To me, I really just need #1 and #2. The rest are all expectations that are held for a high-quality open world game. 

I tried FNV and TW3, and the combat alone bored me out of playing. 

Though you're not wrong in claiming that it's primarily Ubisoft games that ruined my appreciation of the genre. All I can say, is that Assassin's Creed is the biggest farce of a video "game" to ever exist.

What you like just lets me know the genre isn’t for you. 

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2 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

And here I was, unwittingly enjoying Assassins Creed

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47buc1bfs98xpxovynr0

Its not even that Assassins Creed is that bad (depending on which game). Its that there is several open world clones that don't differentiate themselves enough from a gameplay perspective. Horizon Zero Dawn, Ghost of Tsushima, Far Cry, Watch Dogs, Infamous, the list goes on and on.

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Since we’re on this topic, I feel it pertinent to mention why Cyberpunk 2077 is being hyped up so much and why it will almost certainly be winning most GOTY awards, which is in spite of the fact that it’s open world or the fact that CDPR is making it.

The thing is that Cyberpunk gives the player a positively absurd amount of freedom, to the point where I’m trying to think of the things you can’t do in the game. This freedoms includes

-You can’t ever “fail” a quest, unless you die. That means you can completely fuck up the objectives, or even do the opposite of what you’re supposed to do, and that will become part of the story and the game will keep going. In the words of the developers, you’ll have to “deal with the consequences.” https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.shacknews.com/article/107005/cyberpunk-2077-players-have-to-deal-with-the-consequences-of-failed-quests%3famphtml=1

-You can beat the game without completing the main quest line, which means you can go off the beaten path and do whatever you want to create your own conclusion. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/screenrant.com/cyberpunk-2077-main-story-quest-multiple-endings-path/amp/

-It’s possible to be a pacifist and beat the game without killing anyone. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.pcgamer.com/amp/you-can-finish-cyberpunk-2077-without-killing-anyone/

-You can choose your own backstory and where you initially spawn in the world

-In general, the world looks dense as hell with countless interesting things to do and see

The last time I saw a game with this much freedom was Planescape: Torment, which came out in 1999. This is partly what makes it stand out from other open world games.

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While we're on the topic of difficulty, I highly recommend everybody go check out Ruby's Rebalanced Halo CE Legendary. 

It is, unequivocally, the hardest non-meme Halo experience you can find. 

The sandbox has been buffed, but so has the AI. 

It's almost like a Kaizo Halo CE legendary run. 

I'm on AotCR so far, and good god certain sections feel damn near impossible. You have to land every shot, juke every enemy, land every grenade, and do so with perfect timing. I don't even want to imagine what the final section on Two Betrayals is gonna play like. 

Seriously, go play it. If there's a Halo campaign that deserves a legendary walkthrough, it's this one. 

Ironically enough, it also proves my point that Halo 2's AI are incredibly dumb and sluggish compared to CE. Playing Ruby's Rebalanced Halo 2 Legendary and then Ruby's Rebalanced Halo CE Legendary is like the difference between playing vanilla Halo 2 on Heroic and vanilla Halo 2 on Legendary. 

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6 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I mean there’s potential. 
there can be hire marines or Spartans to assist you, side missions, world affecting changes, bases, etc. they could add some RTS elements in there. Idk if any of you have played mount and warband but the fun of that game is to be a single individual  controlling an army. There’s lots of potential actually. With all the Req weapons I guarantee you that’ll be in this game, shitttt there’s potential weapon upgrades right there.
 

 

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2 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

And here I was, unwittingly enjoying Assassins Creed

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47buc1bfs98xpxovynr0

To each their own i guess

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2 hours ago, Nokt said:

Its not even that Assassins Creed is that bad (depending on which game). Its that there is several open world clones that don't differentiate themselves enough from a gameplay perspective. Horizon Zero Dawn, Ghost of Tsushima, Far Cry, Watch Dogs, Infamous, the list goes on and on.

Dude Horizon Zero Dawn is amazing.  What you talkin Willis?

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God open world games can be so boring and repetitive. It all comes down what possibilities game has to offer. That is crafting and different materials, all kind of different playstyles that let you use the environment, verticality, different sets of moevement abilities, encounters that actually let you use the environment in meaningful way. And story that will make you to want more, that is also hard to accomplish in ow game. Not many games can nail this. Usually is just huge boring space filled with repetitive missions. 

Therefore, smaller, more controlled spaces can be much better playgrounds. Think of Dishonored. That is  a great example of open, well crafted space, that lets you be creative in a meaningful way.

Honestly, from what I have seen from Infinite, it doesn't give me much hope. It can still be ok campaign, but the "open world" aspect is exactly as shown. Ability to backtrack, some sidemissions, a "map", little bit of nonlinearity, but don't expect them to go any further. It's just another sticker, another trend the 343 marketing decided to assimilate with hope they sell more copies.

I expect mediocore experience at best. They don't give me any reason to think otherwise.

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On 8/10/2020 at 2:05 PM, MultiLockOn said:

MultiLockOn DESTROYS Hitscan with FACTS and LOGIC

All I can think about this is Titanfall 2, which is hitscan. Titanfall 2 has to be the biggest ever example of "fun to use, not fun to go against."

On 8/10/2020 at 2:05 PM, MultiLockOn said:

 The correct relationship is "I did something right, AND they did something wrong, now I am rewarded with damage", aka I shot correctly, they did not dodge correctly, now my bullet hits them.

I cannot express how much this resonates with me. In Titanfall 2, sometimes I would combo my movement chain perfectly and some scrub sitting still can just mouse-over me and deck me because he hits instantly. I did everything right, yet I am still punished. I stopped playing that game because of this exact reason. No matter how good my movement is, if they can place their reticule on me, I am dead. No need for prediction or movement knowledge, just basic movement tracking. If I change direction, their second rounds of bullet may miss but the first hit even though I reacted successfully. 

If the game had projectile, my correct reaction would be rewarded with less or no damage.

Side note: I am a believer that a good fix for Halo's precision weapons being balanced well in 4v4 but poorly in BTB is give them projectile that loses velocity and starts to drop after a certain range. This range is calculated based on the 4v4 maps max/median range. 4v4 maps are then entirely unaffected by the velocity decrease or bullet drop, yet in BTB players have to compensate for it allowing maps to have longer sight lines because hitting at range is exponentially harder (yet not random).

Bloodlines is one of the worst maps I have played in my entire life. Hitscan BR that doesn't miss and one of the most generous snipers in Halo history. Hemorrhage is the same. Hitscan ruins those maps beyond words.

Projectile > hitscan any day of the week.

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I don't think hitscan vs. projectile is even a debate worth having in the realm of theory. As long as your projectile weapons have intuitive and coherent behaviors (e.g. your bullets end up where the player feels they were aiming and it doesn't play sluggishly), it will always be the superior mechanic. The debate has always revolved around implementation, because oh boy have we seen some widely varied network performance relative to weapon design in Halo.

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Projectiles and hitscan are just different behaviors and depending on how you balance your gun you should take both into consideration.
To me there is no reason to really rank them, I wouldn't rank fast firing guns over slow firing guns (or the other way around) either because different gun designs can all be nice and need different stats to not feel the same.
An easy example would be that you couldn't make a good Quake game if all weapons were either hitscan or projectile though the board, you basically need both for all the weapons to fill their intended role.

But beyond that general statement I tend to agree that Halo could benefit from more projectile gun concepts, imo stuff like the sentinel beam, spartan laser or sniper should stay hitscan for example, I guess what would matter most to me is that the utility weapon shouldn't be hitscan tho as it's already good all around and thus shouldn't be that effective at range (past games might have balanced some of that with no aim assist outside of RRR but with mouse aiming / crossplay in mind that doesn't sound like a reasonable decision to bring back).

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One thing, I think hitscan vs. projectile is more important when talking about automatic weapons or speciality weapons like the sniper (or possibly semi-auto with no ROF cap). Halo gunplay is a weird creature in that all the utility weapons have been single shot or burst fire with a cap. Paired with console controls and aim assist, it's a very peculiar beast in this conversation.

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