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31 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Hitscan is bad design and shouldn't exist I don't know how else to say this. 

What gives you the right to decide such NONSENSE 

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12 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

What gives you the right to decide such NONSENSE 

20 years of seeing how hitscan makes weapon balance impossible. And common sense. 

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11 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

20 years of seeing how hitscan makes weapon balance impossible. And common sense. 

What about Quake, Call of Duty, RainbowSix and Counterstrike? 

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What's the problem with my shots going exactly where I aim them? Am I misunderstanding something with hitscan?

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55 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Hitscan is bad design and shouldn't exist I don't know how else to say this. 

I don't think it's inherently bad, just poorly done.

The problem with hitscan is that for the sake of slight convenience and network consistency, you have to radically change a lot of other things about your utility to make it a skillful weapon. 

At the same time, I don't think it's unusable. 

Tack it onto a few other weapons in the sandbox, give each of them their own unique caveats to using, their own unique strengths, and you have made it useful.

Unless of course hitscan intrinsically violates some fundamental principle that I'm not aware of

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20 minutes ago, Ugug said:

What's the problem with my shots going exactly where I aim them? Am I misunderstanding something with hitscan?

Nothing really some people just get mad at weapon balancing that has hitscan weapons, slow movement, tons of aim assist, low to no recoil etc so that it appears easy to shoot and then assume its because you didn't have to lead your target as well. Projectile bullets are just one of many tools to differentiate weapons and aren't especially required or needed if you use the other tools correctly

Its up there with the comments you read sometimes where people are like "ugh no skill teamshot meta" like it isn't also extremely difficult to be great at. Not everyone does that when they bring it up of course but there's a pretty high rate of people stating subjective opinions as objective facts about all aspects of Halo around here 

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

Hitscan is bad design and shouldn't exist I don't know how else to say this. 

As time goes on I find myself agreeing with this more and more. 

24 minutes ago, Ugug said:

What's the problem with my shots going exactly where I aim them? Am I misunderstanding something with hitscan?

Nothing. Nothing is wrong with hitscan, at least not in a vacuum.


But there is a reason that Halo CE's weapon balance stands the test of time and the others do not. It's not pitting slow inaccurate projectile weapons against precision weapons with hitscan and hoping damage will close the gap. All of them are accurate, but not overly so. None of them are hitscan, but the projectiles are fast. 

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If there's one thing that interacting with the Halo fanbase will teach you, it's that gatekeeping is a good thing. 

The more people become part of the fanbase, the essence of the game is lost further and further, and watered down in the name of pleasing 3 second attention span idiots who can't play for more than 5 seconds unless they have 18372937383 billion movement options to mentally masturbate to or 19381927292728 automatic weapons that all kill faster than the utility so that the sandbox feels balanced to them. 

Browsing Halo twitter makes me seriously depressed at the AR-slayer tards who are allowed to have an opinion. 

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

20 years of seeing how hitscan makes weapon balance impossible. And common sense. 

Lol I was joking man I just wanted to see what you’d as a developer would say and I do agree. But isn’t there some non truth to that though? I mean look at CS. That game is hitscan and it obviously has other mechanics that help balance the guns. Recoil, spread patterns. Now I know you don’t like recoil as a balancing tool(although I can’t fathom why completely) 

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H3 disqualifies itself from being a valid competitive title because of its netcode alone. Doesnt mean its not a good game though.

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16 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Does anyone else support the idea of a projectile sniper rifle? 

You could put it on a 0:30 - 1:00 respawn, give it 12 shots, and a fast RoF if we just made it a projectile weapon. 

For sure, I tried to describe something similar here, the particularities of what I posted don't have to be exact but you kinda get the idea of the type of weapon I'm advocating for, I definitely feel that there's room for it in the sandbox.

 

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56 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

If there's one thing that interacting with the Halo fanbase will teach you, it's that gatekeeping is a good thing. 

The more people become part of the fanbase, the essence of the game is lost further and further, and watered down in the name of pleasing 3 second attention span idiots who can't play for more than 5 seconds unless they have 18372937383 billion movement options to mentally masturbate to or 19381927292728 automatic weapons that all kill faster than the utility so that the sandbox feels balanced to them. 

Browsing Halo twitter makes me seriously depressed at the AR-slayer tards who are allowed to have an opinion. 

Why can’t we just have a strong Ar but a precision better? Like some of y’all want the Ce magnum, h2 BR, etc and the AR to be as weak as the halo reach AR. Like I believe h4 balanced utility vs auto the best. The precision weapons were stronger, a food player could beat an auto user, but the auto player still did significant damage. And if you were half shields when they started firing you’d most likely die. Depending on the range this would guarantee it. H5 currently does a decent balance as well. You can kick ass with that Ar but I bet you a guy using the magnum is going to be the dominant winner in the end. 

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6 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Why can’t we just have a strong Ar but a precision better? Like some of y’all want the Ce magnum, h2 BR, etc and the AR to be as weak as the halo reach AR. Like I believe h4 balanced utility vs auto the best. The precision weapons were stronger, a food player could beat an auto user, but the auto player still did significant damage. And if you were half shields when they started firing you’d most likely die. Depending on the range this would guarantee it. H5 currently does a decent balance as well. You can kick ass with that Ar but I bet you a guy using the magnum is going to be the dominant winner in the end. 

It depends on how you define "strong". Too often, people take the AR's inaccuracy outside of short range as a sign that the AR is too weak. The AR should not be a viable weapon outside of short range, it's as simple as that.

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9 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

It depends on how you define "strong". Too often, people take the AR's inaccuracy outside of short range as a sign that the AR is too weak. The AR should not be a viable weapon outside of short range, it's as simple as that.

Burst firing should increase effective range.  

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4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Burst firing should increase effective range.  

I mean yeah, but someone with even just competent aim should be able to take you out faster with a utility weapon. The drop off in viable range needs to be pretty sharp. I'd say at mid-range, burst firing an AR should really only a viable tool to descope your opponent/clean up a one-shot player.

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Quick Camo made the AR more than just your back up weapon.  Picking up a weapon was a choice.  Keep the AR for the ability to quick camo or keep the Magnum for its utility.  Is there any way we could reimagine the unique relationship between your secondary spawn weapon and and a map pick up like Camo, creating a new decision for players to make?  

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27 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

I mean yeah, but someone with even just competent aim should be able to take you out faster with a utility weapon. The drop off in viable range needs to be pretty sharp. I'd say at mid-range, burst firing an AR should really only a viable tool to descope your opponent/clean up a one-shot player.

H4 AR was really good. It was strong, did decent damage at mid range and yet was still inferior to precision weapons, whom is how things should be. I’m a believer that the utility we spawn with should be strong but map pick ups should be worth a damn still. 

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49 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Why can’t we just have a strong Ar but a precision better? Like some of y’all want the Ce magnum, h2 BR, etc and the AR to be as weak as the halo reach AR. Like I believe h4 balanced utility vs auto the best. The precision weapons were stronger, a food player could beat an auto user, but the auto player still did significant damage. And if you were half shields when they started firing you’d most likely die. Depending on the range this would guarantee it. H5 currently does a decent balance as well. You can kick ass with that Ar but I bet you a guy using the magnum is going to be the dominant winner in the end. 

Every Halo game that wasn't CE had a fundamental problem with autos: they killed faster in their optimal range than the utility weapon. 

Autos are inherently less skillful and lower effort to use, so they should never have the potential to dominate more skillful weapons, even in their optimal range. 

I don't mind having strong autos, as long as they're significantly weaker than utility weapons. My ideal AR has a TTK of about 1.2 seconds, and my ideal utility has a TTK of 0.6 seconds. 

No, Halo 5 doesn't do it well. A game with a 5SK 1.2 second TTK should not have a single auto with a TTK below 1.6 seconds. 

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Just now, _Synapse said:

Autos are inherently less skillful and lower effort to use, so they should never have the potential to dominate more skillful weapons, even in their optimal range. 

I disagree with this.  

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8 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Every Halo game that wasn't CE had a fundamental problem with autos: they killed faster in their optimal range than the utility weapon. 

Autos are inherently less skillful and lower effort to use, so they should never have the potential to dominate more skillful weapons, even in their optimal range. 

I don't mind having strong autos, as long as they're significantly weaker than utility weapons. My ideal AR has a TTK of about 1.2 seconds, and my ideal utility has a TTK of 0.6 seconds. 

No, Halo 5 doesn't do it well. A game with a 5SK 1.2 second TTK should not have a single auto with a TTK below 1.6 seconds. 

H5 you still can dominate a guy easily using their AR. You just have less of a chance at CQC. The Ar can’t be weak or else that crowd will be vastly annoyed. 
and that’s pretty significant man. You be acting as if the utility is that hard to use when it’s not. This isn’t like shooting the wingman from apex legends. 

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Quick Camo made the AR more than just your back up weapon.  Picking up a weapon was a choice.  Keep the AR for the ability to quick camo or keep the Magnum for its utility.  Is there any way we could reimagine the unique relationship between your secondary spawn weapon and and a map pick up like Camo, creating a new decision for players to make?  

• You could introduce a variety of powerups and have them interact with the secondary (and any other weapon in the sandbox that you deemed necessary). For example: a speed boost that slowed down back to base speed whenever you fired, with a 1.5 second acceleration period before it brought you back to the powerup's maximum speed. Swapping to your secondary lets you instantly accelerate to maximum powerup speed. 

• A farther and higher grenade throw arc when holding your secondary. 

• Making the weapon easier to use than a utility, within close range- at the cost of much higher minimum TTK. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

H5 you still can dominate a guy easily using their AR. You just have less of a chance at CQC. The Ar can’t be weak or else that crowd will be vastly annoyed. 

The AR has a 1.37 second TTK. That's 0.17 seconds between it and the utility.

Compare that to CE, where there's 0.4 seconds between the AR and the utility. 

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5 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I’m a believer that the utility we spawn with should be strong but map pick ups should be worth a damn still. 

Yes, but the AR isn't a map pickup—it's a starting weapon. I can't speak on the H4 weapon balance because it's literally been 8 years since I've played it, but "doing decent damage at mid-range" shouldn't be the goal of the AR as that makes it bleed out of its niche role. We've been over this before: Halo's weapon sandbox isn't balanced when everything is always viable, it's balanced when guns are the optimal weapon for the lay-player within their intended roles.

3 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I disagree with this.  

I'd say calling the AR inherently less skillful and lower effort is wrong, but there hasn't been a practical implementation of the AR in Halo that has proven otherwise. Burst firing is one mechanism that kinda sorta makes it more skillful than just spraying and praying, but it isn't that far removed. I'd be all for putting a recoil pattern on the AR if it was a really aggressive one, I'm just not sure how well that ports over to console aiming mechanics.

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7 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

The AR has a 1.37 second TTK. That's 0.17 seconds between it and the utility.

Compare that to CE, where there's 0.4 seconds between the AR and the utility. 

Dude it’s not a big deal especially since the AR is trash outside of close range, and it’s got bloom and spread and compared to the magnum which is no bloom. The fact that the pistol still dominates ARS let’s me know there’s nothing in particularly wrong about that. On paper that looks wrong but the execution is fine. Many of these AR scrubs never aim at the head too so they’re doing significantly less damage than they normally would 

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