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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 minute ago, _Synapse said:

BR is mind-numbingly boring to play, personally. Practically random starts, 3-5 minute stretches of nothing happening,

This is a good thing.  It lets streamers be entertaining instead having to focus on the constant action of the game.  Not my cup of tea but I can see how the format is beneficial to personalities.  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

This is a good thing.  It lets streamers be entertaining instead having to focus on the constant action of the game.  Not my cup of tea but I can see how the format is beneficial to personalities.  

I have heard from people who play that the grind is extremely rewarding, and that the drawn-out, tense moments are more than worth the satisfaction of a victory. 

That being said, I still don't think it's all that fun to actually play. Watching it is definitely fun, though. Kind of like H2 or H3 events.  

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30 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I have heard from people who play that the grind is extremely rewarding, and that the drawn-out, tense moments are more than worth the satisfaction of a victory. 

That being said, I still don't think it's all that fun to actually play. Watching it is definitely fun, though. Kind of like H2 or H3 events.  

yeah, different strokes for different folks.  

Thats how i feel about CS.  I hate playing the game, but I think its the best esport to watch.

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If a Halo ring was scaled to an appropriate width, it could make a great Battle Royal map where segments of it are eventually knocked off to shrink the play space.  Rather than the typical narrowing column, the ring would push players together in a more linear fashion, like Narrows on steroids.  In addition, since the ring begins as a continuous loop but then becomes u shaped once a segment is destroyed, two players could potentially fight their way across the entire play space to reach each other.  

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Cheese is part of the formula though.  Fortnite added building.  

Are there any requirements beside:  

Giant map that eventually shrinks.  
Lots of players with one life.  
Minimal spawn gear with picks ups on map.  
 

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I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

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5 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

What gun were you using? lol. Most guns on Apex have a relatively tiny amount of recoil. Prowler, R9, Wingman, 301 depending on your optic, G7 Scout, etc. And those are basically the most used guns in the game. Maybe you were using the Havoc or something. As to the whole BR debate, I can understand why some people hate the genre, but I can also understand why some people fell head over heels in love with the genre. Most BR's to me are really, really meh. Warzone, Fortnite, Firestorm in Battlefield died almost faster than Halo 4, PUBG was good but ran horribly, etc. Apex is what saved the genre to me. Perfect mix of movement and gunskill, and teamshooting actually matters. I think I like it the most because it probably feels the most like a team shooter, and the least like a BR out of all the BR's, if that makes any sense. Not to mention I watch Snip3down play all the time, he actually just won the biggest ever Apex tournament last night. 

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24 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

Was it pre-muzzle flash patch? Because that was ridiculous and made it impossible to track targets well without a gold stabilizer.

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42 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

I'm the same way. Can't stand recoil unless it's really, REALLY mitigated and monodirectional. 

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Sorry if you were just shitposting, in which case I'll look like a huge sperg...

7 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

This hate of BR modes is self-defeating.  Its just a new gametype on a huge map.  Isn't this the EXACT type of shit that we have been arguing for years that halo should "innovate" with or steal? 

I get that Halo has vehicles and weapons on map, and BR does as well, but wow man. That doesn't make BR any closer to working well in Halo.

Halo arena and BR are not some match made in heaven. One actively detracts from the other's existence. The weapon balance in Halo isn't only designed around average difficulty of use, killtimes, and ideal killtimes, it's designed around effective range. This ONE THING, I kid you not, will kill a Halo BR mode dead, if the weapon ranges present in Arena are used in Battle Royale. Absolutely murder it. The estimated time of development that would need to be devoted to designing ranges that work well for both Arena and BR? Wew, how about we just don't. Dude, call me crazy but I think there is a good reason 343 came right out and said "no".

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Things that don't need to fuck with the core mechanics? 

Heh. So let's just talk about progression for a bit. You know they have to strongly consider stripping the player of their abilities and/or shields at spawn just to allow any sense of progression in this area, I'm not saying they would, but this is one of the main appeals of BR, and you know Halo Infinite's weapons aren't going to be fun to play against if that happens, because much like in every Halo they will be hyper accurate. If they take the route of stripping the player at all it's going to suck. Halo's sandbox isn't designed to handle the player being stripped of anything. Spartans are extremely capable at spawn. Much like BR usually isn't designed around SUPER HIGH DEFAULT JUMP HEIGHT and overall high mobility + high ttk, Halo isn't designed around stripping these things. Once again they would have to redesign all the weapons, a third time, so this works. 3 things already that alter weapon design on a fundamental level between Arena and BR.

Or, they don't strip the player's shields at spawn, whatever, you can ignore that. 

Do you remember Halo 5? Easy to forget I know. It also had this annoying thing where it needed to make all the special new weapons upgrades over the base ones, and this isn't something I'm pointing out as a complaint, it happens to be something BR modes need to function. Upgrade weapon design. After all, what's a BR mode without good loot? (wait, Halo still doesn't have an inventory system...) It's going to try to be 'fair' though, don't worry. Halo loves doing that. Oh, that brings us to the next bitter truth pill: Halo's focus on keeping things fair and balanced, or I should say necessity. Totally at odds with the crowd that plays BR.  Absolutely nobody that has ever played a BR game has wanted to be on even footing with another player outside of the gulag. Typically, everyone wants better weapons. You want better weapons, you want better shields, you want better everything than your opponent if you're playing BR. Let's just be honest with ourselves here.

Say they don't do the whole upgrade style weapon design thing.. they still have to make sure player traits show progression. Let's say it uses a REQ energy style system, and player's traits can upgrade as the match continues just as more power weapons come in play. Personally I think that could be fun as hell, if done better than Warzone, but knowing 343? Idk. You also have Sprint and armor abilities, which we still don't know the full impact of on Infinite, but knowing Halo it's massive like always, and Sprint is 100% going to be on at spawn.

Just saying Halo needs fundamental changes to its design to have a BR mode that is even passable, dude. 

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15 hours ago, xSociety said:

A Halo Battle Royal could actually work well if they stray from all the classic BR tropes.

No one has really made a successful Arena BR game, Halo could do it. There are way too many things needed to make it work to write out and I don't think it's worth talking about unless we knew it was happening.

The problem here is that "arena" and "BR" are conflicting to begin with. I know this is a Halo forum so it might be hard to pinpoint for people what the "arena" part in arena shooters really stands for, after all Halo has watered down arena shooter design philosophy since CE and even more with all the titles that came after but to cut it short it's about map control, combat positioning and item cycles. With arena shooters the maps you get are designed for competitive combat, something that just doesn't work in a battle royale because you have a giant open map and have to use artificial means to even give people a reason to run into each other (the zone closing in) since the natural game flow would have you sit around and let the enemy come to you. A giant map cannot give any player or team any significant sort of map control to begin with and denying resources from the opponents is impossible too, so in the purest sense there is no way you can make an "arena BR game" imo.
Sure you might be able to make some hybrid but its arena part will play worse than proper arena shooters and its BR parts will most likely also play worse than a proper BR game because you are trying to compromise too much to blend the two ending up with a bastardized mess of a shooter.
Seen some people say that Hyperscape is an arena shooter and couldn't stop myself from thinking it's funny how unaware the public is about arena shooters these days, for a good reason tho - games these days focus on a target audience that wouldn't stand a chance in a proper arena shooter until they really try to learn it, and sadly that isn't viable anymore as many people would rather pick up a CoD or Halo game that caters to them with bullshit comeback mechanics and insane aim assist so they can feel like a pro with no effort put into it from their side.

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

If you hate recoil and ADS shooters arena shooters should theoretically be perfect for you.
Hard to tell if you can make the jump from Halo which is as watered down as a game with some arena shooter designs can get but I would def suggest trying if you own a PC, from basically all your posts I saw in the last few weeks it sounds to me like that genre would be a better place for you than Halo.

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I tried Apex but I couldn't shoot for shit

 I think Halo has ruined me

I find gun recoil mechanics on ADS-heavy shooters to be incredibly stupid now

I was garbage at Apex when I first started, now I can hold my own in high-ish ranks. What you need more than anything is a paradigm shift in pacing - Apex is fast compared to Halo, so you basically need to turn your brain off and rely on reflexes more than anything. Get the general idea of approaching combat under your fingers and then just learn to twitch without thinking. It sounds like it's a high-skill frame of mind but really it's just a lateral move from what you're used to in Halo. As far as pure aiming, I had to stop fighting the mouse and "agree" with what Apex was demanding of me to aim competently.

I also bought a DeathAdder v2 mouse which is pretty nice.

EDIT: Oh and having just recently made the switch to 144Hz, boy that helps too.

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2 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I was garbage at Apex when I first started, now I can hold my own in high-ish ranks. What you need more than anything is a paradigm shift in pacing - Apex is fast compared to Halo, so you basically need to turn your brain off and rely on reflexes more than anything. Get the general idea of approaching combat under your fingers and then just learn to twitch without thinking. It sounds like it's a high-skill frame of mind but really it's just a lateral move from what you're used to in Halo.

Not sure how much more you can turn your brain off after being used to teamshot Halo titles tbh.

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Just now, Warlord Wossman said:

Not sure how much more you can turn your brain off after being used to teamshot Halo titles tbh.

That's turning your brain off strategically, I'm talking turning your brain off physically.

But... ...yes.

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1 hour ago, PolyG said:

Halo still doesn't have an inventory system

RT - Fire

LT - Scope, Alt-fire 

RB - Throw grenade 

LB - Jump, Armor Ability (aerial) 

 

A - Armor Ability 

B - Equipment 

X - Reload, Aux weapon control 

Y - Switch weapons, Equip Sidearm 

 

L3 - Crouch 

R3 - Melee 

 

Up - Cycle grenade types 

Down - Cycle armor abilities 

Left - Cycle equipment 

Right - Cycle sidearms 

 

The controller provides the player with access to five independent systems.  Each system has a primary function, fire weapon, throw grenade, and a secondary function, switch weapon, cycle grenade type.  

Since weapons are the main mode of interaction, their secondary functions get the preferential treatment of face buttons.  Grenades, Armor Abilities, Equipment, and Sidearms all use the D pad to cycle through the available inventory for that class of item.  

  

Weapons - LT, RT, X, Y 

 

Grenades - RB, Up

 

Armor Abilities - A, LB, Down 

 

Equipment - B, Left 

 

Sidearms - Y (hold), Right 

 

There are many weapons but the player can only hold two of them at any one time.  In contrast, there are only four grenade types and the player can hold all of them, simultaneously.  

Armor Abilities, Equipment, and Sidearms follow the same model as grenades; one primary operation button to throw, activate, deploy, or equip, and one secondary operation button to cycle through the available inventory for that particular class of items.  

 

Armor Abilities (A, LB, Down) 

 

Each armor ability is actually composed of two separate abilities, one general purpose ability activated by the A button and one aerial ability activated by the jump button (LB) while the player is airborne.  

Down on the D pad cycles through the player’s available sets of armor abilities.  The player can hold up to four sets of armor abilities.  

 

Thruster and Jump Jet are worn like a backpack.  

 

Evade and Wall Kick are represented by alien knee and elbow pads.  

 

Gravity Boots and Gravity Gauntlet are predictably represented by a pair of boots and a glove on the left hand.  B performs a high jump.  While airborne, B hovers.  While hovering, B performs a ground stomp.  

While airborne, LB lunges forward and if a ledge is reached, clambers up it.  

 

Sphere and Glider are represented by a set of shoulder pads and a glowing emblem on the chest.  B transforms the player model into a smaller, metallic sphere that can roll and jump but not attack.  

While airborne, LB deploys a hardlight wing that reduces descent speed and increases forward movement speed.  While in sphere form, activating glider turns the player model into a small, drone-like aerial craft that doesn’t appear on radar.  

 

Equipment (B)

 

Left on the D pad cycles through the player’s available equipment.  The B button deploys or activates the selected piece of equipment.  The player can hold up to four pieces of equipment.  

 

Power Drain 

Flamethrower 

Missile Pod 

Hologram 

Bubble Shield 

Artifact 

Spotting Scope 

 

Sidearms (Hold Y, Right) 

 

Sidearms are a sub-class of weapons that do not count toward the two weapon limit.  Players can hold up to four sidearms.  

Right on the D pad cycles through the player’s available sidearms.  Holding Y equips the selected sidearm.  Y again switches back to the primary weapon and secondary weapon.  

Like any other weapon, sidearms are operated with RT, LT, and X.  

 

Magnum 

 

RT semi automatically fires bullets that kill in 4 shots (1.0 seconds) with a bleedthrough headshot or in 7 bodyshots (2.0 seconds).  AP rounds deal increased damage to vehicles and occupants.  

LT activates a 2x scope.  

X reloads the 12 round magazine.   

 

Energy Sword 

 

RT lunges at a targeted enemy, killing in one hit.  

LT activates Speedboost (+20%).  

X performs a Thermal Scan, revealing recent enemy footprints.  

 

SAW 

 

RT rolls the large, spiked, perpetually-moving wheel forward (roll over infantry/vehicles to kill/destroy them).  

Once deployed, LT and RT steer the remotely controlled vehicle left and right.  

X toggles between player-view and vehicle-view.  

LT+RT activates a short duration speed boost.  

 

Power Glove 

 

RT pulls a targeted aerial vehicle to the user.  

LT picks up and drops a moveable object.  

While carrying an object, X rotates it and RT launches it forward.  Different objects have different projectile traits.  

 

 

There’s an inventory system and the loot to fill it with.  

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One button is for pinging, right? There was pinging in the gameplay, which did the usual scanning expanding wave, but it didn't seem to do anything other than that effect.

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4 minutes ago, theslatcher said:

One button is for pinging, right? There was pinging in the gameplay, which did the usual scanning expanding wave, but it didn't seem to do anything other than that effect.

What do you think that expanding visual scan wave should do?  Highlight visible enemies and pick ups?  

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8 minutes ago, theslatcher said:

One button is for pinging, right? There was pinging in the gameplay, which did the usual scanning expanding wave, but it didn't seem to do anything other than that effect.

I kinda would like that in halo. A ping system like apex. Imagine pinging the sniper camper to your team so they know whom to target. People don’t use mics so stuff like that could help. Now I get some people might spam it but I say give people a option to disable it. 

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Enemy pings & power weapon timers/waypoints (stays visible after item gets picked up) are great ways to make halo more accessible without raising the killtimes, adding sprint/movement gimmicks, etc...

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6 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Enemy pings & power weapon timers/waypoints (stays visible after item gets picked up) are great ways to make halo more accessible without raising the killtimes, adding sprint/movement gimmicks, etc...

Since this isn’t a BR I say each ping should last 5 or 10 seconds. 

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I honestly didn't mind the audio portion of the weapon pad system. It's kind like the NHE countdowns but not as constant. I'm indifferent towards the text visual on the left side of the screen and intro shots, but let's try and stay far away from constant on-screen locators.

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1 hour ago, PolyG said:

Sorry if you were just shitposting, in which case I'll look like a huge sperg...

I get that Halo has vehicles and weapons on map, and BR does as well, but wow man. That doesn't make BR any closer to working well in Halo.

Halo arena and BR are not some match made in heaven. One actively detracts from the other's existence. The weapon balance in Halo isn't only designed around average difficulty of use, killtimes, and ideal killtimes, it's designed around effective range. This ONE THING, I kid you not, will kill a Halo BR mode dead, if the weapon ranges present in Arena are used in Battle Royale. Absolutely murder it. The estimated time of development that would need to be devoted to designing ranges that work well for both Arena and BR? Wew, how about we just don't. Dude, call me crazy but I think there is a good reason 343 came right out and said "no".

Heh. So let's just talk about progression for a bit. You know they have to strongly consider stripping the player of their abilities and/or shields at spawn just to allow any sense of progression in this area, I'm not saying they would, but this is one of the main appeals of BR, and you know Halo Infinite's weapons aren't going to be fun to play against if that happens, because much like in every Halo they will be hyper accurate. If they take the route of stripping the player at all it's going to suck. Halo's sandbox isn't designed to handle the player being stripped of anything. Spartans are extremely capable at spawn. Much like BR usually isn't designed around SUPER HIGH DEFAULT JUMP HEIGHT and overall high mobility + high ttk, Halo isn't designed around stripping these things. Once again they would have to redesign all the weapons, a third time, so this works. 3 things already that alter weapon design on a fundamental level between Arena and BR.

Or, they don't strip the player's shields at spawn, whatever, you can ignore that. 

Do you remember Halo 5? Easy to forget I know. It also had this annoying thing where it needed to make all the special new weapons upgrades over the base ones, and this isn't something I'm pointing out as a complaint, it happens to be something BR modes need to function. Upgrade weapon design. After all, what's a BR mode without good loot? (wait, Halo still doesn't have an inventory system...) It's going to try to be 'fair' though, don't worry. Halo loves doing that. Oh, that brings us to the next bitter truth pill: Halo's focus on keeping things fair and balanced, or I should say necessity. Totally at odds with the crowd that plays BR.  Absolutely nobody that has ever played a BR game has wanted to be on even footing with another player outside of the gulag. Typically, everyone wants better weapons. You want better weapons, you want better shields, you want better everything than your opponent if you're playing BR. Let's just be honest with ourselves here.

Say they don't do the whole upgrade style weapon design thing.. they still have to make sure player traits show progression. Let's say it uses a REQ energy style system, and player's traits can upgrade as the match continues just as more power weapons come in play. Personally I think that could be fun as hell, if done better than Warzone, but knowing 343? Idk. You also have Sprint and armor abilities, which we still don't know the full impact of on Infinite, but knowing Halo it's massive like always, and Sprint is 100% going to be on at spawn.

Just saying Halo needs fundamental changes to its design to have a BR mode that is even passable, dude. 

You're applying how every other BR is designed to Halo though... Halo shouldn't try to come in line with "every other BR".  It should be, as it should be in all facets, its own thing.  Adopt the gametype basics, big maps, lots of players, collapsing playspace.  But otherwise let it be halo.  It doesn't "need" weapon progressions.  It doesn't "need" good loot.  That's what I was saying before, ALL existing BR's are really loot-shooters. The matches take a long time.  You spend half your time looting and managing inventory.  Halo could be the first pure shooter. Shorter match times. Less time moving shit around in your backpack. Don't overcomplicate it. Even if it is more complicated than core Halo, it could still be great and markedly different than other BRs.

 

Quote

Personally I think that could be fun as hell, if done better than Warzone, but knowing 343? Idk.

 

At this point, they have had 5 years, 343's repeated screw ups and probable internal strife make me question how good this game is going to be period.  But I don't think them NOT making a BR mode would have any affect on improving the quality of the rest of the game.  5 years and a half billion dollar budget means there is no reason not to ask for the world and have a reasonable expectation that they will deliver.

 

 

 

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