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Halo Infinite Discussion

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9 minutes ago, L0l0 said:

We have come to this point.:mj:

I've seen random normies on facebook with the Craig brute as their profile picture. Halo is in the mainstream again, but for all the wrong reasons.

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I don’t get this love for the 1-50 system. It honestly just sucks in my eyes. Other games do ranking far better than halo ever did. 

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5 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

1-50 is too vague. It’s not simple at all. The skill between a level 35 and level 40 isn’t easily known. But the skill between a guy literally a placement above is. 
how would you design that though?

This is a perfect system done in many games to create a more balanced environment.

tbh h5 ranks are better than 1-50. It also isn’t a annoying grind. Thiis is a situation of nostalgia hitting you deep. You just love that system too much. 

>halo 3 kid

>1-50 is too complicated

Like poetry 

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7 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

>halo 3 kid

>1-50 is too complicated

Like poetry 

It’s not complicated it’s just annoying. It’s a ridiculous grind that doesn’t tell me shit. It’s also an annoying grind. And you think you’re special for being a CE kid?   You obviously don’t plan on playing infinite so why you discussing about the game. Look most of us don’t like that it’s not a classic halo but for now we’ll deal with what we got. And with mcc improvements hopefully we will still have a solid pop

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Why not combine a division system with 1-50? You hit 50 in Silver and then move to 1 in Gold. You hit 50 in Gold then move to 1 in Onxy/whatever fucking element you can think of. Best of both worlds.

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3 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

1-50 is too vague. It’s not simple at all. The skill between a level 35 and level 40 isn’t easily known. But the skill between a guy literally a placement above is. 
how would you design that though?

This is a perfect system done in many games to create a more balanced environment.

tbh h5 ranks are better than 1-50. It also isn’t a annoying grind. Thiis is a situation of nostalgia hitting you deep. You just love that system too much. 

Its not vague at all.  Higher numbers, better skill, lower numbers worse.  a 40 is clearly worse than a 50. The difference between a diamond 1 and diamond 5 is more abstract.  All the current systems use that kind of ranking... because Josh Menke is the one who designed it for almost all of them.  He designed ranks for Overwatch, Starcraft, CoD and Halo.  Its his trademark, its not inherently better.

It might be a bit nostalgia, but having nostalgia doesn't automatically make that thing bad.  1-50 ranks is part of Halo's identity and there is nothing inherently wrong with that representation at all. I'm also only talking about the 1-50 indicator of skill, not the skill calculation and matchmaking.  Placement matches are still a good idea, as is requiring a certain social rank before hopping into ranked play. "The grind" just makes it attractive to smurphing to pad stats while crushing lower level players, so we want to avoid that.  Handling 50+ is easy just show their CSR under the 50.  You could even throw in a Master system in that would be the only symbol-ized rank.

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17 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

Okay so I’m done with the shitposting but I had an idea I’m interested to see what y’all think. 343 can’t do classic halo - that much is obvious. Personally I hate the indecisive direction the franchise has been heading since reach or arguably h3. At this point I would be far more interested in the halo franchise if it something entirely different.

I think the rainbow 6 siege format could work well. 343 so badly wants to make a modern squad shooter, so they should try using a format that actually works. Keep sprint, keep automatics, keep the modern aesthetic and abilities and all the other futuristic shit. It would all work in this context. And actually I think that would be a lot of fun.

Imagine the scenario being UNSC forces sending a 5 man squad to destroy some lightly guarded covenant ship with an important cargo. You pick your squad, choose between a handful of Spartans with different weapons and abilities. Match starts and your squad gets dropped off on the hull of the ship. You use a drone or ai or something to find a safe way into the ship and use a breaching explosive to open it up. Ultimately you have to get to some part of the ship to plant a bomb that the other team has set up to defend. 

They just need to stop pretending that they’re making a classic style halo game. I would actually play what I just described above whereas I will not play sprintfinite. Thoughts?

Keep in mind, what I'm about to say is coming from somebody who enjoyed Halo 5.

I think this could be cool. One of my issues with Halo as a franchise is that there is virtually infinite (:simms:) things you could do in the sandbox and world that you could argue would fit in the sandbox, and I would love for those ideas to be explored in spin offs. Like what you described I think could definitely work. I mean there's no reason it couldn't work. I was never a fan of the amount of work that went into setting up the defended site and scoping it out using drones, so there may be some things I'd like tweaked for personal taste. But I think enough tools exist in the Halo universe, or you could create new tools that would still feel like they fit in the universe, and you could make a great game out of what you described.

For what you described, if it was to be a spinoff, I'd probably have it featuring UNSC marines compared to spartans though. A small touch, but assuming we're toning down the "super hero" features and the person won't be able to jump six feet in the air, I think it would be more fitting for marines to be the playable characters.

I guess if the question is "would I prefer what you described", my answer would probably be no. Let's ignore Infinite for a second since I don't feel I have enough information to make a judgement call. If you asked me would I prefer Halo 5 or the potential game you described assuming the game is at least as good as Rainbow 6 Siege, I'd probably still prefer Halo 5. But if you asked me about Halo 3 or Halo 4, I'd happily play the game you suggested over those two.

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14 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Its not vague at all.  Higher numbers, better skill, lower numbers worse.  a 40 is clearly worse than a 50. The difference between a diamond 1 and diamond 5 is more abstract.  All the current systems use that kind of ranking... because Josh Menke is the one who designed it for almost all of them.  He designed ranks for Overwatch, Starcraft, CoD and Halo.  Its his trademark, its not inherently better.

It might be a bit nostalgia, but having nostalgia doesn't automatically make that thing bad.  1-50 ranks is part of Halo's identity and there is nothing inherently wrong with that representation at all. I'm also only talking about the 1-50 indicator of skill, not the skill calculation and matchmaking.  Placement matches are still a good idea, as is requiring a certain social rank before hopping into ranked play. "The grind" just makes it attractive to smurphing to pad stats while crushing lower level players, so we want to avoid that.  Handling 50+ is easy just show their CSR under the 50.  You could even throw in a Master system in that would be the only symbol-ized rank.

1. Eh it’s usually better in each of the games you mentioned. Although halo 5s irritation wasn’t that great. But only because placements were heavily inaccurate.
2. Crushing low level players is bound to happen in social regardless. The thing I’m trying to avoid here is the “dumbass” who goes into rank not knowing what they’re doing. Or the guy who has skill in earlier halos but got the game later on but has no idea how to play the map he’s on. 
3.i prefer the division indicator. 1-50 isn’t enjoyable as it was back in h3. 

 

Overall get rid of the annoying grind. Ranks should reset every quarter(3 months) as I don’t play with a guy who comes back 6 months later who no longer plays like a 50.

 

Oh here’s another reason for the required social rank and that is MMR. What if gold level players beat bronze level and win 10X matches in a row? They shouldn’t get onyx or champ. MMR could help out determine if your opponents belonged in that placement or not as well 

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2 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

1. Eh it’s usually better in each of the games you mentioned. Although halo 5s irritation wasn’t that great. But only because placements were heavily inaccurate.
2. Crushing low level players is bound to happen in social regardless. The thing I’m trying to avoid here is the “dumbass” who goes into rank not knowing what they’re doing. Or the guy who has skill in earlier halos but got the game later on but has no idea how to play the map he’s on. 
3.i prefer the division indicator. 1-50 isn’t enjoyable as it was back in h3. 

1) What you're describing as "better" is mostly subjective.  If the placement system and under the hood calculations are the same, which is what i'm suggesting, but  its just the visual representation of skill that is different then it becomes preference at that point.

2) Not sure what this has to do with anything.  i said i support placement matches and a short social rank increase before accessing ranked?

3) I prefer 1-50

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34 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Or you command your tendril like grappling hook to slither its way across the smooth curves of the covenant ship, wriggling its way in through a gap in the armor so it can unlock the back door for ya.  

This is the funniest shit I’ve ever read on this site LMAOO

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8 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

1) What you're describing as "better" is mostly subjective.  If the placement system and under the hood calculations are the same, which is what i'm suggesting, but  its just the visual representation of skill that is different then it becomes preference at that point.

2) Not sure what this has to do with anything.  i said i support placement matches and a short social rank increase before accessing ranked?

3) I prefer 1-50

1. It may a subjective but considering just about every game with a ranking system uses it I’d debate that it’s better by that notion alone. 
3. I prefer being called a champion than a 50

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3 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

1. It may a subjective but considering just about every game with a ranking system uses it I’d debate that it’s better by that notion alone. 

Most FPS games use sprint so it must be better for Halo right?

I'm not gonna say 1-50 is objectively better than the bronze etc tier system, but 1-50 is a classic Halo move, and tbh if you can understand that a Diamond is better than a Gold you can understand that a 40 is better than a 30. Like one is directly told you with a number that one is higher, and the other you have to actually think about or look up if this is your first time seeing this type of ranking system.

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24 minutes ago, Silos said:

For what you described, if it was to be a spinoff, I'd probably have it featuring UNSC marines compared to spartans though. A small touch, but assuming we're toning down the "super hero" features and the person won't be able to jump six feet in the air, I think it would be more fitting for marines to be the playable characters.

I’ve thought about the relationship between two human “species” a bit.  I think what I settled on was that Spartans don’t sprint, moving at 120% speed all the time while ODSTs move at 100% speed but can temporarily boost it to 120% by sprinting.  This way, one shot kill gametypes like SWAT and Infection can use the ODST movement model while traditional gametypes use the Spartan movement model.  

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

1. It may a subjective but considering just about every game with a ranking system uses it I’d debate that it’s better by that notion alone. 
3. I prefer being called a champion than a 50

1) again, its that way because the same guy designed all those ranking systems.  its his signature.  1-50 is Halo's signature and he works for 343 now, so if i were him i would adopt it.  The visible ranking is not a big deal either way, im not going to cry over whatever they come up with as long as the under-the-hood shit works right (tight in ranked, light touch in social, party restrictions, accurate placement matches, automatic boosting/smurph banning).  I think 1-50 is more "Halo".

2) I addressed this too.  The only symbolized rank would be the Master/Grandmaster/Champion rank like they have now, with a number indicating where in the top 200 you stand. Or they could do a set of symbols if they want like Halo 2 but that should be the ONLY set.  So its an "Oh shit" to everybody whenever you see a symbol instead of a number. no more "Is platinum better than gold or the other way around?  How much worse is plat 5 from diamond 2 really?"

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6 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Most FPS games use sprint so it must be better for Halo right?

I'm not gonna say 1-50 is objectively better than the bronze etc tier system, but 1-50 is a classic Halo move, and tbh if you can understand that a Diamond is better than a Gold you can understand that a 40 is better than a 30. Like one is directly told you with a number that one is higher, and the other you have to actually think about or look up if this is your first time seeing this type of ranking system.

touché 
Well to be fair I said 35. What makes it objectively better? 
And is it a bad system? Not every game that uses this system was made by him?  Most games adopt it because it works. 
mcc 1-50 which according to 343 is how it worked in h2 and h3, this system isn’t as good as it used to be. 

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29 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Its not vague at all.  Higher numbers, better skill, lower numbers worse.  a 40 is clearly worse than a 50. The difference between a diamond 1 and diamond 5 is more abstract.

Logic doesn't add up here. Divisions are just 1-50s reskinned with better imagery and a more clear sense of progression. It's just labeling.

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1 minute ago, Reamis25 said:

touché 
Well to be fair I said 35. What makes it objectively better? 

idk what "35" means.

1-50 isn't objectively better - I just think it's better for Halo. How many games use the tier ranking system you want to use? Basically everything?

How many games use 1-50? I don't play enough games to know but I'd reckon close to zero since Halo 3. Why not go back to a classic Halo move to differentiate yourself from the competition rather than trying to copy the competition - something that 343 has been doing since Halo 4 and it's getting old

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R6 is the only other game I played with a ranking system besides h2 and I found the bronze style ranking very confusing at first until I realized that the underlying MMR is just a number that is correlated 1:1 with your “rank”. I don’t dislike that style of ranking but the argument that it’s more understandable than 1-50 is clearly only true if you are coming from another game with a similar style ranking. 

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3 minutes ago, JordanB said:

idk what "35" means.

1-50 isn't objectively better - I just think it's better for Halo. How many games use the tier ranking system you want to use? Basically everything?

How many games use 1-50? I don't play enough games to know but I'd reckon close to zero since Halo 3. Why not go back to a classic Halo move to differentiate yourself from the competition rather than trying to copy the competition - something that 343 has been doing since Halo 4 and it's getting old

Some things are better copied than being original for the sake of originality. Like I think something more familiar is better in this case when it comes to skilled ranking. Even halo should hold some familiarity so people may get comfortable. The problem with 343s trend following problems is they do things worse than the games they copy elements from so people go play that instead. 

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1 minute ago, Infinity said:

Logic doesn't add up here. Divisions are just 1-50s reskinned with better imagery and a more clear sense of progression. It's just labeling.

Right one is linear and requires literally 0 knowledge of the ranking system to immediately understand everything about it, the other needs you to know the tiers, how many there are, how many sub tiers until you rank up.  I am NOT saying either one is hard, they're absolutely not, but i think its clear that 1-50 is simpler.

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

Some things are better copied than being original for the sake of originality. Like I think something more familiar is better in this case when it comes to skilled ranking. 

But it's not more familiar unless you've already seen it before. Plus some games only go up to bronze 3, others go up to bronze 5, plus you have to account for divisions, therefore I'm required to look into it to see how high it goes. In a 1-50 you don't ever have to see it before - the higher number is clearly higher ranked. 

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9 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Right one is linear and requires literally 0 knowledge of the ranking system to immediately understand everything about it, the other needs you to know the tiers, how many there are, how many sub tiers until you rank up.  I am NOT saying either one is hard, they're absolutely not, but i think its clear that 1-50 is simpler.

If there’s a sense of difficulty to get out of a tier you can recognize the difference in skill between a plat 5 and D2. 
@JordanB dude most of aren’t you who plays or played few games. I’d debate the average person on pc that’s played a game passionately(these are the usually the gamers who play ranked in games) can easily recognize the system.  And the same goes for console 

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Guys, i'm not saying understanding any of this shit is hard, just harder. One has a difficulty of 0/10 the other 1/10 to understand. But tiered symbolic ranks ARE more abstract and i think 1-50 is just better for Halo.  There was a time when 1-50 was THE ranking system that everybody was familiar with, so sure maybe nostalgia counts.  Just take that system, update it with modern shit under the hood and at the high-end margins then call it a day. The halo ranking system was iconic until for some reason they decided that people were too averse to competition to see their ranks.  Even the symbolized ranks in current games have their differences that don't make one system directly transferable to another game with a similar system.  Their is no need to copy other games. Just have halo be halo.

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8 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

If there’s a sense of difficulty to get out of a tier you can recognize the difference in skill between a plat 5 and D2. 

There's a skill difference between a 42 and a 37 too. Like Hootspa said this is literally just a visuals argument - everything behind the scenes operates the same way

There are new people who get into gaming, either console or PC. It isn't just the same market year after year.

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