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Halo Infinite Discussion

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3 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Thruster as an alternative to a competent strafe is completely idiotic.

Well unless we get instant strafe like OW it’s gonna be difficult to make strafing good. 

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No Thruster in 4v4.  
 

Thruster pick up in 6v6.  
 

Thruster base trait in 9v9.  

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30 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

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 Since when was strafing good in h2? It wasn’t hard to hit someone at all. And I refuse to count that bullshit wall glitching. Halo ce is projectile. 

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34 minutes ago, Boyo said:

No Thruster in 4v4.  
 

Thruster pick up in 6v6.  
 

Thruster base trait in 9v9.  

We need universal settings man 

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9 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

We need universal settings man 

Why?

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So more casual players can pick up 4v4 hardcore etc. without feeling like they are playing a completely different game, an issue that 95% of the currently popular competitive games don't have.
That said Halo is not really a competitive game and never has been balanced around sweaty gameplay primarily but if the ranked playlists feel like a completely different game you will have less people migrating from the more casual modes which usually get people to stick with the multiplayer.

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18 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

 Since when was strafing good in h2? It wasn’t hard to hit someone at all. And I refuse to count that bullshit wall glitching. Halo ce is projectile. 

H2's movement speed was crisp and responsive—arguably the best pure strafe mechanics in the series (though there's room to claim that, absent input delay, CE's was better). The fact that "it wasn't hard to hit someone at all" is a function of the BR and the obscene amount of bullet magnetism. Even with that bullet magnetism, H2's strafe is far better than H3's.

I'm mainly targeting your claim that strafing can't be "good" unless there's zero movement inertia. I'd agree that the game's mechanics should get as close to that mark as possible, but it's a bit ridiculous to claim thats the only way Halo's strafe can be "good".

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11 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

So more casual players can pick up 4v4 hardcore etc. without feeling like they are playing a completely different game

So tanks in 4v4 then?  They’re in big team, why aren’t they in 4v4?  

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14 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

H2's movement speed was crisp and responsive—arguably the best pure strafe mechanics in the series (though there's room to claim that, absent input delay, CE's was better). The fact that "it wasn't hard to hit someone at all" is a function of the BR and the obscene amount of bullet magnetism. Even with that bullet magnetism, H2's strafe is far better than H3's.

I'm mainly targeting your claim that strafing can't be "good" unless there's zero movement inertia. I'd agree that the game's mechanics should get as close to that mark as possible, but it's a bit ridiculous to claim thats the only way Halo's strafe can be "good".

You know I honestly don’t notice a difference in the movement at all between 2&3 Is there something I’ve missed or what? 

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

So tanks in 4v4 then?  They’re in big team, why aren’t they in 4v4?  

Because vehicles are an additional gameplay layer in itself, they come with a dedicated control scheme already.
Infantry gameplay exists in both modes and has traditionally been the same for the exact reason I named, just that the hardcore modes often got requests for being changed because the baseline for gameplay usually is pretty terrible for more serious 4v4.

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If it’s ok to have vehicles in one mode but not another, is it also ok to have weapons designed specifically to combat those vehicles?  

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9 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

You know I honestly don’t notice a difference in the movement at all between 2&3 Is there something I’ve missed or what? 

Halo 3 has a single frame of animation where the character stops moving before going a different direction. It's not super perceptible but its why strafe seems to accel slower than 2. 

I dont think h3 has that bad a strafe. If anything its decent, especially compared to how difficult it is to aim compared to 2. But you really want to play the game with 10% faster movement. Its more fun this way.

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If it’s ok to have vehicles in one mode but not another, is it also ok to have weapons designed specifically to combat those vehicles?  

Sure, and then you only put them on the map if vehicles are present, it's more of a sandbox expansion than messing with the base gameplay as I said. Should be pretty simple to understand people will be confused about no thrusters in 4v4, pickup thrusters in 6v6 and spawning with thrusters in 9v9 which will significantly change how you play just walking around compared to vehicles and anti vehicle weapons missing in 4v4.
It's more intuitive to understand why vehicles might not work well in 4v4 and on small maps for casual players than thrusterpack availability being split into 3 different states for seemingly no reason, there will be muscle memory effects trying to thrust off spawn if you play 9v9 and then switch to 4v4 with your suggestion while vehicles not being there is much more natural since you don't even think about their controls if they are not on the map...

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And surely the maps will need to be designed differently to accommodate vehicles, correct?  So we have different weapons, different vehicles, and different maps.  Don’t you think with all these differences that infantry may need some differences too?  

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They should repurpose thruster where instead of a sudden lateral move, it just gives you more air control. That way you can strafe in the air like you can on the ground. Players will have normal jumps or they can activate thrusters mid-jump. Your thrusters will have a limited supply so you're not gliding around the map like fucking princess peach. Combine this with wall jumps and things could get interesting.

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Maps with vehicles need vehicle pathing.  Thrust helps balance infantry movement on maps with vehicle pathing.  

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It wouldn’t be a coincidence that the width of a tank and the length of a thrust are approximately the same distance.  

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11 minutes ago, Boyo said:

And surely the maps will need to be designed differently to accommodate vehicles, correct?  So we have different weapons, different vehicles, and different maps.  Don’t you think with all these differences that infantry may need some differences too?  

Quickly want to comment on "different weapons" and "different vehicles": Precisely we just want a different weapon and vehicle selection, I know that's what you meant but what I am trying to advertise with consistency in infantry gameplay also applies to weapon balance. Sure maybe you could say the rocket launcher needs more splash damage in BTB because the maps are bigger and more open but my point is that different modes in the same game coming with intuitive consistencies makes the entire game feel more polished overall and the players run into less "invisible walls" when trying different playlists in matchmaking.
But with that in mind I think I would answer your question by saying that with the right core gameplay and map design I think infantry playing the same across all modes is very desirable and should work. It should help tying the game together by giving people some elements where what they learned translates into every other gamemode/playlist mechanically while they still have to worry about positioning, different items/vehicles and map layouts.

1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Maps with vehicles need vehicle pathing.  Thrust helps balance infantry movement on maps with vehicle pathing.  

If thrust were this important to balance infantry vs. vehicle encounters it sounds more like thrust was thrown at BTB with already completed maps to fix an issue that emerged over time. I do feel like with the right map design something like having thrusters to help infantry is very minor, I would rather invest into more thought through maps instead of relying on thrusters fixing issues on these maps that shouldn't be there to begin with if I view them as problematic.

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Empowering infantry through thruster allows vehicles to be powerful.  It’s similar to a crisp strafe and a fast killing utility.  The utility CAN kill fast BECAUSE the strafe is crisp.  Vehicles CAN kill fast BECAUSE infantry can dodge them.  

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53 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Empowering infantry through thruster allows vehicles to be powerful.  It’s similar to a crisp strafe and a fast killing utility.  The utility CAN kill fast BECAUSE the strafe is crisp.  Vehicles CAN kill fast BECAUSE infantry can dodge them.  

In infantry vs. infantry gunfights without cover strafe is your only option to dodge tho (well without trusters which most people would prefer for 4v4) while infantry vs vehicle is more of an asymmetric encounter, vehicles have different size and movement and are inherently locked out of certain parts of the map which makes them much easier to avoid as somebody who is just walking around.
Also I think many people here want a fast killing starting weapon which just works best with decent strafe accel and movement speed while I am not so sure about strong vehicles. Vehicles in Halo are mainly designed with campaign and BTB in mind which means they are very easy to use compared to even the pistol in Halo 5, that's usually also why in BTB they also give people an assault rifle so there is something lesser skilled players can pick up kills with before really learning to get effective with the pistol (not saying it's hard to learn but BTB is really the super casual mode for them so they care about those things).
If vehicles were treated more like power weapons (which arguable are also not as strong as I would like them to be in most Halo games) and had some serious killing potential I would rather balance it out by the vehicle requiring more skill to operate and perform well with rather than giving people thrusters to dodge the vehicles. I don't think this will happen, through the entire series BTB was a very casual mode and vehicles do reflect this to an extend, sure some kids might claim it requires insane skill to do well with a banshee - which is questionable at best - but if you look at warthogs, ghosts, wraiths, scorpions and all those vehicles they don't require a ton of mechanical skill to get kills with, if anything it's more about how you position and move around with them.

That said I personally always felt like vehicles are much nicer in a support role where smart usage can really benefit your team if they work together with you instead of just some bulky tank that is easy to get kills with and if you kill the enemy tank first you can grab some free kills - that just isn't very fun imo even if it's probably going to stay so people who have a hard time shooting others with a BR can go on the occasional killing spree in BTB.

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