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Halo Infinite Discussion

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5 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

When Infinite is released we need to have a petition made on any serious changes that need to be made to the game.

What would you like Infinite to look like, gameplay wise?  

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2 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

When Infinite is released we need to have a petition made on any serious changes that need to be made to the game.

This is a bit tangental to your point, but I actually think building community infrastructure to lobby more persuasively for changes is something that could be extremely beneficial. Well-worded, well-reasoned, and well-organized/coordinated petitions, video content, etc. are sure to be more effective than our current mishmash of crude YouTube rants and forum complaints.

The problem is that building this infrastructure would take a lot of time and effort, and there's no real point in putting in that time and effort if the game is ass to begin with. You need a robust and populous community to make those efforts pay off. Halo does not have a robust and populous community at the moment; we need a good game to draw people in. So, if the game has serious issues off the bat, we'll never have the community population to make those investments worthwhile.

I, for one, would love to start making content, draft more formal-ish petitions, etc., but if the game has sprint and Spartan Abilities again, I'm probably not even going to buy/play it, much less spend my limited free time putting those things together.

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47 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

It should be expected the halo community wants a sequel or something similar to H3.

That being a properly made game.

A 'properly made' halo game would play nothing like Halo 3. 

There would be no RNG, faster kill times, more range on the utility weapon, faster power item respawn times, etc...

Pretty much every aspect that made Halo 3 would be non-existent in a 'properly made' Halo game.

I hope infinite is 'properly made.'

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Am I the only one getting vietnam flashbacks to "self selection bias" the last time the community tried to petition for change?

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Halo: Infinite is probably going to have gameplay that has little resemblance to any prior Halo game. After all, Microsoft's penultimate goal with the game is to create a large multi-platform hit that is as popular as other mainstream FPS games like CS:GO, Valorant, COD, etc.

To do that, 343 has probably taken the game in an entirely new direction in an attempt to make the game appealing not only to the franchise's existing console fanbase, but also to the much larger potential audience of FPS players on PC. How exactly they're going to do that is very difficult to say, as their prior attempts to revamp the franchise's core gameplay haven't been all that inspiring, to say the least.

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21 minutes ago, TI Inspire said:

To do that, 343 has probably taken the game in an entirely new direction in an attempt to make the game appealing not only to the franchise's existing console fanbase, but also to the much larger potential audience of FPS players on PC. How exactly they're going to do that is very difficult to say ...

Here's a theory - popular shooters like CoD, CSGO, Valorant, etc... all have very fast kill times.

I wonder if 343 plans to incorporate CoD-like kill times across Infinite (so basically SWAT would be the default mode). After all, they've already jacked sprint and ADS, why wouldn't they take it one step further?

It would probably be better than the garbage 343's delivered thus far.

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35 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Here's a theory - popular shooters like CoD, CSGO, Valorant, etc... all have very fast kill times.

I wonder if 343 plans to incorporate CoD-like kill times across Infinite (so basically SWAT would be the default mode). After all, they've already jacked sprint and ADS, why wouldn't they take it one step further?

It would probably be better than the garbage 343's delivered thus far.

One of the things that differentiates Halo from other shooters are the generally longer kill times. I think COD kill times would be received pretty negatively.

We'll see what happens, but I feel pretty sure that after 5 years, 343 came up with a number of ideas we probably don't expect.

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So!

A while back, I had made three guesses to what Halo Infinite's gameplay loop would be. In summary:

A) They move forward with Halo 5's movement in HCS as a starting point, and configure the Spartan Abilities by changing or removing some of them. Sandbox is still fucked due to the required high bullet magnetism and aim assist.

B) They make a hybrid with Classic and Modern Halo, similar to Mythic. Thrust exists in some shape or form, which in turn fucks the sandbox.

C) They make an actual Classic Halo, but it's Halo 3 with its flaws unconditionally embraced. Again, sandbox is fucked.

You may have noticed there is no option for 343 making an actual good game. I think we all know why that option isn't there.

Vote what you think the game will be, with emotes! For "A", use the Down Arrow. For "B", use the Goldenboy face. For "C", use the Salt Shaker.

 

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Allow me to give you the D)
 

4v4 Arena is a classic Halo experience.  
 

9v9 Invasion gives players armor abilities and equipment off spawn.  
 

6v6 Squad features select armor abilities and equipment as pick ups.  
 

But it would take some big balls to cut Team Slayer and Big Team Battle so this isn’t happening.  

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I feel like it will be "hey we got price money and we made 3+ reskinned midships, we really care for our hardcore community", while most of the hype will be build with campaign and masterchief, maybe mixing some more classic Halo art style into their modern art style to generate a feeling that Halo is returning to its roots even if the gameplay won't reflect it.
Feel like they know a lot of people will buy anything that has HALO printed onto it, play some epic orchestral music over action scenes in a trailer and people buy the game without wasting a second thought on what the multiplayer will be like.

I remember being one of a couple people in this forum who said they wouldn't buy Halo 5 (not trying to say that makes a meaningful difference btw, just because I really hated where they were going before and they didn't fix the issues I had with the game) but I felt like most of the people got the game anyways, even if they now hate it. Releasing a game every few years seems to have people desperate enough to buy about anything "Halo" anyways.
But yeah not saying you could boycott it, gamer boycotts have never worked - I feel like while great multiplayer and everything could potentially make the game grow and make for a stronger community there is so little chance a big name like Halo will fail that they can basically do whatever they want and get away with it. It was the same issue with Halo 4 and Halo 5, I think some people at 343 want to make their own Halo instead of recreating bungie's Halo and I would be massively surprised if that would change this time around.

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7 hours ago, TI Inspire said:

Halo: Infinite is probably going to have gameplay that has little resemblance to any prior Halo game. After all, Microsoft's penultimate goal with the game is to create a large multi-platform hit that is as popular as other mainstream FPS games like CS:GO, Valorant, COD, etc.

To do that, 343 has probably taken the game in an entirely new direction in an attempt to make the game appealing not only to the franchise's existing console fanbase, but also to the much larger potential audience of FPS players on PC. How exactly they're going to do that is very difficult to say, as their prior attempts to revamp the franchise's core gameplay haven't been all that inspiring, to say the least.

I think that is probably the smartest thing they could do. They are almost surely doing it with the campaign: Microsoft needs something to show off the capabilities of their new console. The campaign gives them the most freedom to do so, I would be shocked if it isn't extremely different than the previous Halo campaigns. Large landscapes and more freedom will almost surely be a few of the main aspects they will emphasize. Multiplayer is another thing altogether, but to appeal to both the PC and the Console scene it pretty much needs to be significantly different than what has come before. Besides, if it is different enough, everyone has to try it in order to give a chance and see if they like it. 

6 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Here's a theory - popular shooters like CoD, CSGO, Valorant, etc... all have very fast kill times.

I wonder if 343 plans to incorporate CoD-like kill times across Infinite (so basically SWAT would be the default mode). After all, they've already jacked sprint and ADS, why wouldn't they take it one step further?

It would probably be better than the garbage 343's delivered thus far.

Although I doubt it would go as far as being like SWAT, something like this wouldn't shock me. I would be more than happy with a Halo game that has an 0.7-1.0 second "perfect" kill time for the utility weapon. It would probably make it feel more like CE anyways. I'm totally for less of a reliance on Team Shot .

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16 hours ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

I actually think building community infrastructure to lobby more persuasively for changes is something that could be extremely beneficial. Well-worded, well-reasoned, and well-organized/coordinated petitions, video content, etc. are sure to be more effective than our current mishmash of crude YouTube rants and forum complaints.

One, if they don’t know what certain segments of the community want by now, they’ll never know.  

Two, design by committee is a horrible idea.  All you need is one person who knows what s/he is doing and the authority/resources to implement it.  

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What "the Halo community wants" really has to stop being the benchmark, gameplay wise. Sweaty players who actually understand how the game functions have a bad habit of wildly overestimating just how much of the Halo community also understand how the game functions. 

The portion of Halo players who actually understand how to play the game is anywhere from 15% to 5%. 

If you use "what the community wants" as a shorthand for what YOU want, you'll be sorely disappointed when Infinite launches with Halo 5 copy-pasted movement. Most of the Halo community are really dumb as shit as far as knowing how to design a good Halo game goes, ironically enough. A CS or Quake player probably knows how to design the gameplay better. 

Also, Halo 3 being the most acclaimed multiplayer by Halo players is just further proof that Halo 2/3 kids have a huge disproportionate influence on the general opinion of the games. 

Halo needs to almost entirely abandon all of the new stuff they added in Halo 3.

An ideal Halo would take the majority of it's influence from CE, with some hints here and there from H2 and H3. 

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So a discussion about Projectile BR. How would you think it would perform with modern netcode, and dedicated servers? I'm a fan of projectile over hitscan. H2 BR with hitscan was fine, but H2A BR with hitscan is insanely strong. 

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The only weapons that should be hitscan are laser weapons like the Sentinel Beam.  Projectile weapons should only require significant leading at distances outside of red reticle range.  

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2 hours ago, Banamy said:

So a discussion about Projectile BR. How would you think it would perform with modern netcode, and dedicated servers? I'm a fan of projectile over hitscan. H2 BR with hitscan was fine, but H2A BR with hitscan is insanely strong. 

To be real it would work almost exactly the same as the Halo 3 BR with better registration and hitboxes twice as big as Halo 3 had so that you could actually hit people who were sliding and ducking and climbing over everything online. Just imagine the Halo 5 sniper rifle hit boxes added onto the Halo 3 BR and you'd be pretty fucking close. That's not what people really want but its exactly what would happen

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16 hours ago, TI Inspire said:

One of the things that differentiates Halo from other shooters are the generally longer kill times. I think COD kill times would be received pretty negatively.

Tough to say how halo players would react. On the one hand, players may have a better experience if they can kill opponents faster. I also think r/halo people are 100% indifferent on gameplay - they'll just eat up anything that has "Halo" in the title. 

I also think potentially negative reception wont stop 343 from implementing new gameplay mechanics. The inclusion of bloom, sprint, ADS, loadouts, etc... attest to this. 

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7 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

I also think r/halo people are 100% indifferent on gameplay - they'll just eat up anything that has "Halo" in the title. 

This is part of why Halo always has a huge uphill battle in regards to having good game design. An ignorant, loudmouthed, and clueless social playerbase - combined with a developer who's too preoccupied with self-centered ideas of "making the games the way THEY want to", rather than anything actually decent. 

Applies to both Bungie and 343i era Halo. 

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Anyone who says they won't buy a Halo game if it doesn't have sprint is a liar. I hear that defense all the time from casuals and I know it's bullshit. Casuals will buy every mainline Halo game no matter how it plays.

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Brute Weapons 

 

Mauler 

RT semi automatically fires diamond-shaped volleys of 9 molten pellets ([email protected]) that can ricochet off a hard surface but fizzle out once past medium range.  

LT semi automatically fires Bruteshot rounds that kill in 2 direct hits (0.6 seconds) and can knock an airborne user upward but begin dropping once past close range.  

X reloads the shared 8 round magazine.  Primary fire consumes 1 round per shot while alt fire consumes 2 rounds per shot.  

 

Spiker  

RT automatically fires projectiles that can ricochet off angled surfaces but begin dropping once past medium range.  Spikes kill in 8 shots (0.8 seconds) but produce minor vertical and side to side recoil.  Spikes that strike an object head on become partially embedded in it.  The exposed portion of an embedded spike can be used as a temporary jump up.  

X reloads the 32 round magazine.  

LT fires a limited range Clawline (grappling gun) that quickly pulls the user to its point of impact.  

 

Sand Blaster 

RT fires glass projectiles that kill in 5 shots (1.3 seconds) with a final headshot.  LT fires a short range, horizontal ribbon of sand.  While holding LT, RT tightens the flat spread into a concentrated jet, increasing its range.  The weapon’s shared ammo pool automatically refills while standing on sand.  

X transforms the user into the Sandman, a nearly invisible subterranean vehicle that can only operate on sand, like a sand submarine whose position is only revealed by a ripple traveling across the ground.  

While the Sandman is active, LB creates a pit that can swallow vehicles whole, destroying them.  RB causes the Sandman to emerge, the top half of a large humanoid creature rising from the sand.  Once emerged, RT spits a stream of damaging sand forward while LT claps its arms together, damaging whatever is caught between the two colliding dunes.   

 

Gravity Hammer 

RT smashes the hammer head down, damaging and knocking proximate players back.  

LT emits an expanding spherical shockwave that reflects incoming grenades and slow moving projectiles.  

X pulls proximate pick ups to the user.  An attracted objective becomes attached to the weapon, allowing the user to carry it without hindering his ability to move or attack.  

 

Gravity Bow 

RT quickly charges then automatically fires projectiles that kill in 2 shots (0.5 seconds), knocking players and objects back.  Impact can flip light vehicles and tip medium vehicles over.  

LT alt fires a sticky projectile the begins dropping once past medium range.  X toggles between a Gravity Vortex that spins and tosses players, vehicles, and objects within its area of effect or a Gravity Anchor that drags down an impacted aerial vehicle.  

 

SAW 

RT rolls the large, spiked, perpetually-moving wheel forward (roll over infantry/vehicles to kill/destroy them).  

Once deployed, LT and RT steer the remotely controlled vehicle left and right.  

X toggles between player-view and vehicle-view.  

LT+RT activates a short duration speed boost.  

 

Concussion Cannons (turret) 

Dual cannons are independently fired with LT and RT, both raising the weapon’s shared heat level.  Projectiles kill in two shots, knocking proximate players, vehicles, and objects back.  

 

Spike (grenade) 

A Spike grenade’s shaped charge focuses the blast, sending the majority of the damage perpendicularly away from the surface it is stuck to.  8 spikes are also fired perpendicularly away from the stuck surface, ricocheting off hard surfaces.  

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2 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Tough to say how halo players would react. On the one hand, players may have a better experience if they can kill opponents faster. I also think r/halo people are 100% indifferent on gameplay - they'll just eat up anything that has "Halo" in the title. 

I also think potentially negative reception wont stop 343 from implementing new gameplay mechanics. The inclusion of bloom, sprint, ADS, loadouts, etc... attest to this. 

To be honest, I'd be more receptive to H5 if it actually had COD like kill times. They added ADS to the f'in energy sword for gods sake!! That line has already been crossed a long time ago. Advanced movement mechanics just doesn't work with Halos long kill times. I remember playing that CE anniversary playlist in H5 and even though the CE pistol had a ton of bullet mag/AA, it still kept the advanced movement in check. And H5 actually became somewhat playable and didn't have two different design philosophies clashing against each other. I hope they don't have advanced movement again because tbh that crap is played out but if they do for some reason have it, the weapons should have COD kill times. Just go all the way with it Halo would be dead at that point anyway. 

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37 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

Advanced movement mechanics just doesn't work with Halos long kill times.

Agreed. 343 ripped every movement gimmick from popular shooters without the one thing that makes them work - fast kill times. 

Could you imagine CoD just throwing halo-style shields into the game without changing anything else? I think the population would tank just like modern Halo has experienced. 

If advanced movement is kept and the kill times aren't sped way up to compensate its inclusion, good luck getting a sustainable population. 

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28 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Agreed. 343 ripped every movement gimmick from popular shooters without the one thing that makes them work - fast kill times. 

Could you imagine CoD just throwing halo-style shields into the game without changing anything else? I think the population would tank just like modern Halo has experienced. 

If advanced movement is kept and the kill times aren't sped way up to compensate its inclusion, good luck getting a sustainable population. 

Ironically the same TTK argument can be made for any ability that lowers your gun, it's just the worst on sprint and """advanced""" movement because usually those can additionally be used to escape gunfights - and almost only that - because you can't shoot. Passive health regen is there, if you are down a single shot in a gunfight with long TTK just sprint away, or thruster or whatever fucking pseudo advanced 1 button press ability.
This is a Halo forum mainly so idk how many people would know but I would call stuff like strafejumping in Quake or CS surfing advanced because it actually has a skillgap compared to "well you press this button to get away xD", it's shitty 1 button press abilities to disengage mostly, they don't even come with a proper cooldown, even MOBAs know giving people dash/flash (or whatever you wanna call it) would be fucking broken.

Apparently Halo doesn't care because "why would a super soldier not be able to sprint", great waypoint and r/halo argument, I wonder if they would defend your spartan being able to shit midgame too because "why wouldn't a super soldier be able to take a shit" amirite?

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In their community update 343 mentioned that this July event is specifically for Campaign. They didn't say no multiplayer, but it was worded as if we shouldn't expect anything else. I'd be surprised if they didn't at least tease the multiplayer for a full reveal around the Gamescom digital event in August, but with how this community goes we probably will have to wait another month for any real Multiplayer info. 

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