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Halo Infinite Discussion

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17 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Halo originally is based off of doom anyway. 

Where you get that from?  

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32 minutes ago, Gold said:

Where you get that from?  

Idk where I heard it from but I remember a YouTube video about it. And anyway all you gotta do is look at OG doom guy and you can put two and two together. 

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I will say that EVERYTHING in Halo 3 feels slow.

Not just the movement, which is mainly hindered by the FoV. But also the entire sandbox. The guns kill slow. The fire rates are slow. The BR's 3 shot burst is itself slow. The bullets move slow. The reload is slow. The melee, swap speed, and the rest of the animations are slow. Even the vehicles feel slow. The enemies in campaign are all slow. Hell, even the grav lifts are slow, come to think of it.

All in comparison to literally every other Halo game on one thing or another. The level of impotence I feel my Spartan has in Halo 3 is extremely jarring compared to everything else in MCC, for better or worse. It is astonishing.

Fast, reactive, responsive, and aggressive gameplay is NOT something I think of when talking about Halo 3. Rather, slow, and Methodical. Which to it's credit, is what people also typically like about it, I think. But if we are trying to speed up the game or at least just make it FEEL faster, Halo 3 is definitely the worst template to base classic Halo gameplay speed on, IMO.

Granted, I'm sure that a good portion of Halo 3's perceived slowness can be attributed to the narrow FoV, sound design, and choice of animations, instead of the literal speed of the game. But the overall weak sandbox on top of it certainly does it no favors.

H2 is feels so good in comparison.

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26 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Halo 3 is a garbage fucking game. 

Now, now. Let's not get carried away.

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The folks arguing that Halo is better with sprint are the modern-day version of the folks arguing that Halo 3's random BR spread/kill time was no big deal on the MLG forums in 2009. 

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11 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

The folks arguing that Halo is better with sprint are the modern-day version of the folks arguing that Halo 3's random BR spread/kill time was no big deal on the MLG forums in 2009. 

MLG GD was one big fuck fest. 

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4 hours ago, Gold said:

Where you get that from?  

4 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Idk where I heard it from

lol

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7 hours ago, Gold said:

Where you get that from?  

I've always thought of this as well. Not and insult btw. I just think that, particularly in the campaigns, doom is a major influence, especially with how enemies are designed. Just look at the hunters for example. Very similar to barons in the original doom.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

I've always thought of this as well. Not and insult btw. I just think that, particularly in the campaigns, doom is a major influence, especially with how enemies are designed. Just look at the hunters for example. Very similar to barons in the original doom.

Isn't he just getting it confused with quake? They've definitely said the game was based on quake. 

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On 7/4/2020 at 9:11 PM, Reamis25 said:

Do you realize what would happen if we took h5 movement but h3 sized maps? The fact is the movement in h3,2,1 is slow as shit in general. It feels slow, and it barely felt faster even with a fov of 120. Oh yeah Eldewrito has sprint and it’s ridiculously fast.

My man, map flow would be gone if we simply increased the base movement speed without regard for anything else. The same reason that instant respawn was universally hated in H4, is the same reason that we don't do this. 

Imagine killing 3 enemy players in Pit CTF and trying to run the flag through green box but having 2 fresh respawners from court already there to completely stop all team momentum. 

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Doom was incredible for it's time but I honestly don't understand why people consider the gameplay to still be the gold standard today. 

Doom really isn't difficult. The enemies are almost universally slower and less agile than the player, so all you really have to do is not walk in a straight line while shooting at them. Basically everything gets killed by just spamming shots while circlestrafing. 

It's even more of a power fantasy than Halo, to be quite frank. Even the toughest enemies are a joke given a wide enough space and decently powerful weapons. 

To compensate for this, you have some of the dumbest artificially-difficulty increasing bullshit of any video game. Random areas where the already-claustrophobically cramped rooms simply shut off all exits and spawn 30 demons as soon as you pick something mildly inconspicuous up, godawful 40 minute long puzzle sections where you scour the map for a stupid keycard, and the like.

It was good for the time, but it's extremely dated game design now. Halo is distinct from Doom because the weakened player character introduces a lot of tactical strategy and tension in dealing with comparatively stronger enemies. 

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8 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Doom was incredible for it's time but I honestly don't understand why people consider the gameplay to still be the gold standard today. 

Doom really isn't difficult. The enemies are almost universally slower and less agile than the player, so all you really have to do is not walk in a straight line while shooting at them. Basically everything gets killed by just spamming shots while circlestrafing. 

It's even more of a power fantasy than Halo, to be quite frank. Even the toughest enemies are a joke given a wide enough space and decently powerful weapons. 

To compensate for this, you have some of the dumbest artificially-difficulty increasing bullshit of any video game. Random areas where the already-claustrophobically cramped rooms simply shut off all exits and spawn 30 demons as soon as you pick something mildly inconspicuous up, godawful 40 minute long puzzle sections where you scour the map for a stupid keycard, and the like.

It was good for the time, but it's extremely dated game design now. Halo is distinct from Doom because the weakened player character introduces a lot of tactical strategy and tension in dealing with comparatively stronger enemies. 

Because it’s fast paced AF. 

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18 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

My man, map flow would be gone if we simply increased the base movement speed without regard for anything else. The same reason that instant respawn was universally hated in H4, is the same reason that we don't do this. 

Imagine killing 3 enemy players in Pit CTF and trying to run the flag through green box but having 2 fresh respawners from court already there to completely stop all team momentum. 

That’s why we increase it but not to ridiculous proportions 

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22 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Doom was incredible for it's time but I honestly don't understand why people consider the gameplay to still be the gold standard today. 

Doom really isn't difficult. The enemies are almost universally slower and less agile than the player, so all you really have to do is not walk in a straight line while shooting at them. Basically everything gets killed by just spamming shots while circlestrafing. 

It's even more of a power fantasy than Halo, to be quite frank. Even the toughest enemies are a joke given a wide enough space and decently powerful weapons. 

To compensate for this, you have some of the dumbest artificially-difficulty increasing bullshit of any video game. Random areas where the already-claustrophobically cramped rooms simply shut off all exits and spawn 30 demons as soon as you pick something mildly inconspicuous up, godawful 40 minute long puzzle sections where you scour the map for a stupid keycard, and the like.

It was good for the time, but it's extremely dated game design now. Halo is distinct from Doom because the weakened player character introduces a lot of tactical strategy and tension in dealing with comparatively stronger enemies. 

Certain aspects of it's game design are the gold standard.

Vanilla Doom is pretty easy but WADs realize it's full potential.  Circle strafing works in a room that has only a handful of Imps, but when you're fighting tons of Imps plus a Revenant with it's homing projectiles plus the Mancubus with it's own unique projectiles plus Chaingunners in the back suddenly your movement and target prioritization actually matters a lot.  You're no longer just mindlessly circling around everything, but being mindful of everything being thrown at you.

The maps being more than simple start to end hallways is a GOOD thing.  Yes, this wasn't always done well, but I'd rather deal with the occasional annoying keycard hunt than the same bland hallway map boring me to death over and over.

The fact that most enemies are projectile and that you can potentially mitigate all damage through effective footwork is a good thing.  Halo was wise to copy this.

I'll say "it's fast as fuck" is also another benefit.  It's just fun to go fast, and not have to slog through everything.  Bobbing and weaving through everything is so much more entertaining than just slowly pushing up and constant corner peaking that you see in CoD and to a lesser extent Halo.

Small, non-redundant sandbox design.  Again another thing Halo was wise to copy.

I will agree there's a lot of artificial difficulty though.  Unpredictable traps that almost always kill you outright in order to force you to load a save, but then are pretty easy to deal with after, are just bullshit game design.  And I'll say that using cramped areas to make dodging harder is actually *good* game design depending, tying enemies to map design like that is a good thing, but many instances where the player is basically locked into place against enemies surrounding them is not.

But yes I like Quake a lot more.

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4 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

Certain aspects of it's game design are the gold standard.

Vanilla Doom is pretty easy but WADs realize it's full potential.  Circle strafing works in a room that has only a handful of Imps, but when you're fighting tons of Imps plus a Revenant with it's homing projectiles plus the Mancubus with it's own unique projectiles plus Chaingunners in the back suddenly your movement and target prioritization actually matters a lot.  You're no longer just mindlessly circling around everything, but being mindful of everything being thrown at you.

The maps being more than simple start to end hallways is a GOOD thing.  Yes, this wasn't always done well, but I'd rather deal with the occasional annoying keycard hunt than the same bland hallway map boring me to death over and over.

The fact that most enemies are projectile and that you can potentially mitigate all damage through effective footwork is a good thing.  Halo was wise to copy this.

I'll say it's fast as fuck is also another benefit.  It's just fun to go fast, and not have to slog through everything.  Bobbing and weaving through everything is so much more entertaining than just slowly pushing up and constant corner peaking that you see in CoD and to a lesser extent Halo.

Small, non-redundant sandbox design.  Again another thing Halo was wise to copy.

I will agree there's a lot of artificial difficulty though.  Unpredictable traps that almost always kill you outright in order to force you to load a save, but then are pretty easy to deal with after, are just bullshit game design.  And I'll say that using cramped areas to make dodging harder is actually *good* game design depending, tying enemies to map design like that is a good thing, but many instances where the player is basically locked into place against enemies surrounding them is not.

But yes I like Quake a lot more.

Thanks for the reply. And yeah, Quake is awesome. 

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On 7/4/2020 at 4:03 AM, Reamis25 said:

Why should I need those either? I want to move fast but with the ability to still fire. Doom 4(and obviously eternal) are fast AF. Vehicles and teleporters. 

I don't want sprint in Halo, ruining Campaign and competitive multiplayer, just so you can "feel good" about your BTB. Teleporters and vehicles do the job just fine. I don't mind a faster BMS, but guess what sprinting isn't BMS

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BTB needing sprint is a myth anyways, if you design the maps with no sprint in mind it shouldn't be a problem to begin with but given the fact that most BTB maps are just giant open areas with not much thought put into the design I could see how some people might convince themselves that's the only way those maps can be...

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Why would they go for a Thursday morning reveal? Not trying to bash; just not sure why they'd pick that over a Friday evening/Saturday time.

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4 hours ago, JordanB said:

I don't want sprint in Halo, ruining Campaign and competitive multiplayer, just so you can "feel good" about your BTB. Teleporters and vehicles do the job just fine. I don't mind a faster BMS, but guess what sprinting isn't BMS

Read my comments from start to finish. Here I’ll reword them for you. I want a fast bms to apply to everything. I want to feel as fast as i am sprinting. My earlier point I tried to make is sprint does make things fasteR,  but only if we didn’t upscale the maps. Basically I want halo to be fast paced movement wise, but without a needless sprint animation.

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45 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

Why would they go for a Thursday morning reveal? Not trying to bash; just not sure why they'd pick that over a Friday evening/Saturday time.

Less eyes on other major things. It'll be the only thing in that time slot. 

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Promethean Weapons 

 

Boltshot 

RT semi automatically fires projectiles that kill in 7 shots (1.5 seconds) with a headshot.  

LT charges an alt fire shot.  Once charged, RT fires a projectile that begins rapidly dropping once past close range (charging a shot for too long automatically fires it).  

X toggles between alt firing a projectile that kills in one headshot regardless of shield level or a projectile that teleports the user to its point of impact.  Alt fire projectiles ignore bubble shields and shield doors, passing right through.  

 

Sentinel Beam 

RT fires a beam that kills infantry in 1.2 seconds and gradually decreases the damage resistance of a continuously contacted vehicle.  

LT creates an orb that floats a short distance ahead of the user, simultaneously transferring him from player-view to orb-view.  While in orb-view, the right thumbstick aims the orb, allowing the user to look around.  While holding LT, RT teleports the user to the orb’s location, even through a wall or ceiling.  

X activates Tele Link, instantly transporting the user to the map’s designated exit node, if one is available.  

 

Light Rifle 

RT fires three round bursts that kill in 4 bursts (1.4 seconds) with a final headshot.  

LT activates a 3x scope and concentrates four projectiles into one, semi automatically firing projectiles that kill in 3 shots (0.9 seconds).  

X reloads the 36 round magazine.  

 

Power Glove 

RT continuously pulls a targeted vehicle toward the user.  

LT picks up and drops a proximate moveable object.  

While carrying an object, X rotates it and RT launches it forward.  Different objects have different projectile traits.  

 

Focus Rifle 

RT continuously fires a beam that kills in 0.8 seconds.  Continuous contact with a vehicle gradually reduces the health of all its occupants via Radiation damage.  

LT activates a 4x scope.  

X toggles the weapon between firing a Modulated beam or Amplified burst.  While amplified, RT charges then fires a short duration blast that penetrates and destroys all that it touches but drains half the battery in one shot.  

 

Scepter 

RT fires projectiles that kill in 3 shots (0.6 seconds) with a final headshot.  

X reloads the 12 round magazine.  

Holding LT fires a bounce-able projectile.  Releasing LT remotely detonates it, releasing a large EMP around a small incineration blast.  

Successful melee strikes begin the user’s shield recharge.  

 

Slider (turret) 

The Slider can travel left or right along an energy beam but once moving cannot stop, only change directions.  

RT automatically fires projectiles with reverse bloom.  The reticle begins large but shrinks with sustained fire, each consecutive shot becoming more accurate until the battery overheats.  In addition, each consecutive shot decreases the fire delay between shots, ramping up the RoF the longer it is automatically fired.  

 

Conduit (grenade) 

The Conduit fires a short range beam from the user’s left hand for 0.7 seconds.  A contacted player’s shields are transferred to the user at a rate of 1 shield layer per second.  

Shield barriers, shield doors, and bubble shields can be disabled with Conduit grenades.  Fusion coils can be drained of energy, rendering them inert.  

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