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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

They said they did, but they didn't. If a dev says they rebuilt their engine or made a new one 99.9999% chance they're lying. You basically can't just build a new engine now, it's too much work. It's most definitely still the same one but with some of the lighting tech rewritten to get better reflections and supports higher poly counts and maybe some nice tools for the developers to use. But it is most definitely not a new engine. If you go on the Activision web page and look at their job listings for infinity ward you'll notice under the LD descriptions it still mentions Radiant. 

Exactly, unless you have 500 million dollars and five years to spare like Microsoft. I'd say it is worth the investment for Microsoft as well. Get it right and you and your 12 studios have a in-house state of the art engine to use, which can be a big time and money-saver. 

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26 minutes ago, NAK said:

Exactly, unless you have 500 million dollars and five years to spare like Microsoft. I'd say it is worth the investment for Microsoft as well. Get it right and you and your 12 studios have a in-house state of the art engine to use, which can be a big time and money-saver. 

It's definitely a new engine but Multi is saying it's a rebuild of an old engine. If Halo 5 used what we'll call the "Halo Engine" then Halo: Infinite will be using Halo Engine 2.0. It is a new engine but it's still built on the old one.

I bet there's still Halo 3 code in it though...

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1 hour ago, SpitFlame said:

The worst thing Halo ever did was popularize the two-weapon slot limit.

Two-weapon slot limit is something that Halo doesn't really work without though. Halo isn't really a true arena shooter. 

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5 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Top 5 ways to make Halo: Infinite campaign great:

1) A sandbox of very distinct and powerful, but difficult-to-use weapons that make a difference in the hands of a skilled player with good judgement. Also, specially designed ammo counts to allow players to use said weapons for more than 1-2 encounters. No SMG clones, no cheap-EMP whoring. Weapons excel at their roles, but still require skill to wield effectively at said roles. See: CE's magnum, rockets, and sniper rifle. 

2) Restoring enemies to CE design. Grunts are ineffectual on their own, and supplement a powerful Elite unit to where you can't openly challenge the whole covenant file to a 1 on 1. Extremely active and agile elites who strafe and move 24/7, with headbobbing and ACTUAL difficulty to headshot. Jackals that are actually difficult to stun and headshot with a single shot, and that behave defensively. Hunters that are strong, but slow and predictable and with the ability to be instakilled by well placed shots from certain weapons (other than the main utility). All enemies are much more aggressive than their H2 and beyond iterations, and will generally pursue the player into whatever far-off distance the player tries to retreat to. 

3) Carefully designed, unique encounters. Encounters are built with several ways to beat them, but with a high level of difficulty in each case. They do not ever overtake the means that the player has available in the sandbox. There is a healthy even mix of small-scale infantry-infantry encounters, medium-scale infantry-infantry encounters, large scale infantry/vehicles-infantry/vehicles encounters, and infantry-infantry/vehicles encounters.  Player infantry to enemy vehicles/infantry is something that was perfected in CE. The rockets were hugely powerful, but slow and requiring careful aim and positioning to use. This lead to incredibly tense moments in campaign where competency with the rockets meant being able to eliminate several enemy vehicles and infantry with just grenades, a utility, and rockets. See: AotCR and Two Betrayals to see it done perfectly. 

4) Huge faction battles. Again, these are ripe for falling into good encounter design because sheer enemy faction numbers can alone make an encounter difficult, if the player tackles it without any thought. Imagine an encounter where, say Flood and Prometheans have a huge battle and you have to make it past said battle intact. The ideal way to deal with it is to be stealthy and pick off packs of enemies without gaining attention, either via sniping or by hiding and using silenced weapons/explosives up close. If not done carefully, the player expends tremendous time, effort, and ammo in dispatching both groups of enemies. See Two Betrayals to see this done perfectly, or even Keyes. 

5) Openness of encounters: Levels don't have to be non-linear or in player-decided order (90% of even Halo CE is completely linear and still top notch), but levels should be adequately spacious to allow for various different types of positioning and weapon combinations, and not constrict the player's total potential. To see it done right, see The Library. Difficult, yes, but you have a huge amount of room to dodge and avoid flood while shooting them, unlike Sacred Icon or Cortana. In addition, have a multitude of ways to complete certain mid and large scale encounters. See the rocks section on Halo: you can drive around and kill enemies with the warthog as the dropships drop them off, you can hide in the rocks and kill them as they come by with your sniper rifle, or you can take cover with the marines on the tall rock and snipe them from afar. 

6) CE style flood, if flood are in the game. CE's flood have the perfect balance of standing still and firing at the player, rushing the player, leaping at the player, as well as difficulty to headshot and general time to kill. Make it so that you can dodge flood melees with well timed strafes or jumps. What shouldn't get carried over from CE is the seemingly disjointed melee, where you can clearly visually jump to the side of a combat form and you'll still confoundingly eat melee damage. 

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Two that I want to throw in:

1) Put pressure on the player. Don't spawn all the enemies in front of them. Make them react, make them observe. Open them up to being flanked from the side or the rear. Spawn enemies behind them. Spawn reinforcement waves behind them while a battle is still ongoing. Enemies on the opposite side of an encounter should have the capacity to split up and rush the player. Reference the circular rooms on AoTCR; what if a couple of the jackals or elites on the far side of the room - instead of just hunkering down back there - came up both of the outer hallways to try and hunt you down? Reintroduce random patrols and variable jackal sniper spawns, if jackal snipers must be used.

2) Ammo capacity for most non-power weapons need to go up, preferably back to H1 levels. Pistol/utility rifle should be 10 spare clips. AR/SMG/whatever should also be 10 spare clips. Bumping the shotgun back up to 12/60 will make it viable over long stretches of campaign again. Plasma Pistol should only use between 10-15% battery for overcharge shots and battery drain on held overcharges should be removed, just do it like H2A where you limit how long a charge can be held, maybe introduce a backfire mechanic if you exceed the meter just for laughs.

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37 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Two that I want to throw in:

1) Put pressure on the player. Don't spawn all the enemies in front of them. Make them react, make them observe. Open them up to being flanked from the side or the rear. Spawn enemies behind them. Spawn reinforcement waves behind them while a battle is still ongoing. Enemies on the opposite side of an encounter should have the capacity to split up and rush the player. Reference the circular rooms on AoTCR; what if a couple of the jackals or elites on the far side of the room - instead of just hunkering down back there - came up both of the outer hallways to try and hunt you down? Reintroduce random patrols and variable jackal sniper spawns, if jackal snipers must be used.

Another good one. One of the things that I did love about HCE (and considerably less in H2) was that you had to memorize a few spawns over the course of the game on legendary. 

About the spawning waves thing, I've already said this but it's not unconditionally bad, it's only the H2 style that sucks ass because not clearing each wave quickly and efficiently has no cumulative damage/difficulty buildup over time like in CE, the time in between waves spawning is way too high unlike CE, and the enemies themselves just kind of stand in the same general place until you kill them, unlike CE. 

The two sections that come to mind with wave-style spawns from CE are one of the best, most challenging parts of the game. The dropships coming down during the first spire battle on Halo, and the enemy waves being dropped down during the gravlift section on T&R as well as the section that follows right after. All 3 are an absolute treat to play if you know how to play them. 

Legendary shouldn't be something that the player can walk through the first time playing the game, without dying. It should be as hard as possible without diminishing the fun of the game, and it should really feel like a huge challenge has been beaten when the player does win. 

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2 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

2) Ammo capacity for most non-power weapons need to go up, preferably back to H1 levels. Pistol/utility rifle should be 10 spare clips. AR/SMG/whatever should also be 10 spare clips. Bumping the shotgun back up to 12/60 will make it viable over long stretches of campaign again. Plasma Pistol should only use between 10-15% battery for overcharge shots and battery drain on held overcharges should be removed, just do it like H2A where you limit how long a charge can be held, maybe introduce a backfire mechanic if you exceed the meter just for laughs.

Does this go for multiplayer too? I’m all for increasing ammo in most weapons If the starting utility weapon is super powerful. 

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6 hours ago, NAK said:

Exactly, unless you have 500 million dollars and five years to spare like Microsoft. I'd say it is worth the investment for Microsoft as well. Get it right and you and your 12 studios have a in-house state of the art engine to use, which can be a big time and money-saver. 

Well EA does that with Frostbite where it's company wide, it's still nowhere near Unreal Engine. And they've invested a LOT of time and money into it. If EA and Dice can't make an engine quite as good as Unreal I sure don't expect 343 to. 

5 hours ago, Shekkles said:

It's definitely a new engine but Multi is saying it's a rebuild of an old engine. If Halo 5 used what we'll call the "Halo Engine" then Halo: Infinite will be using Halo Engine 2.0. It is a new engine but it's still built on the old one.

I bet there's still Halo 3 code in it though...

I guess it just depends on your definition of new. Like the new Modern Warfare, 343 probably rewrote some lighting things, added more accurate light bounces, maybe a few tools for them to use while they develop the game, and called it a day and gave the engine a name. You'll still be able to tell in movement that everything about it resembles the engine we know now. 

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8 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

They said they did, but they didn't. If a dev says they rebuilt their engine or made a new one 99.9999% chance they're lying. You basically can't just build a new engine now, it's too much work. It's most definitely still the same one but with some of the lighting tech rewritten to get better reflections and supports higher poly counts and maybe some nice tools for the developers to use. But it is most definitely not a new engine. If you go on the Activision web page and look at their job listings for infinity ward you'll notice under the LD descriptions it still mentions Radiant. 

Oh well that sucks. What about slip space is it actually new or still blam? 
be nice if m$ just paid epic to use uE4 for the next halo(the game would look better than ever, would probably have more content than ever, easily modded, could have AI in customs for the first time ever etc) 

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7 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Oh well that sucks. What about slip space is it actually new or still blam? 

I think it doesn't matter to be honest lol whether or not its a new engine or the Halo 2 engine it makes essentially no difference to a consumer beyond if you want something like real time destruction. Most engine improvements only make differences to the developer during development, or in the graphical fidelity. Neither of which should matter to anyone here. What matters is if the game is well designed lol Halo on unreal engine is still a Halo being made by this team. 

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On the topic of how Infinite could have an awesome campaign if they do it right, one thing I always hope for is that non-utility/power weapons still be incredibly effective even on Legendary.

CE is the only game where even the AR can be used to aggressively rush down an Elite 1v1, and have the mag capacity to sustain it without needing to reload mid-fight. The way CE's health mechanics work helps.

In every game after, you either just get shut down and melted (like H2), or the damn gun has to reload at least twice to kill something of worth. A lot of times, a combination of both.

It is fun to be able to use the entire sandbox in CE if you want, and is one of the most important things that I always hope for with each new game. Sadly I have been disappointed for so long.

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12 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

I think it doesn't matter to be honest lol whether or not its a new engine or the Halo 2 engine it makes

I guess because one of the reasons they made this was to make new and better content easier so I’m hoping to see just that at launch. 

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5 hours ago, SpitFlame said:

The worst thing Halo ever did was popularize the two-weapon slot limit.

How many weapons do you think a player should be able to simultaneously carry in Halo?  What control scheme would allow the player to easily switch between that many weapons?  

3 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

battery drain on held overcharges should be removed, just do it like H2A where you limit how long a charge can be held, maybe introduce a backfire mechanic if you exceed the meter just for laughs.

What are people’s thoughts on a player’s own weapon hurting him if used improperly?  

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

How many weapons do you think a player should be able to simultaneously carry in Halo?  What control scheme would allow the player to easily switch between that many weapons?  

What are people’s thoughts on a player’s own weapon hurting him if used improperly?  

Destiny and the Titianfall games allow you to hold three weapons. Press Y to switch to secondary, hold Y to switch to anti-titan or special weapon. 
 

Weapons hurting players if used improperly is a great way to balance easy to use weapons like the plasma pistol and rocket launcher. Maybe the Storm Rifle could damage you if you let it overheat, we all know that weapon needs rebalancing. 

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40 minutes ago, Boyo said:

How many weapons do you think a player should be able to simultaneously carry in Halo?

More than 2, that’s for sure. Maybe all the UNSC ones.

40 minutes ago, Boyo said:

What control scheme would allow the player to easily switch between that many weapons?

Dude, haven’t you ever played a shooter where you could carry many weapons? Doom, BioShock, etc. You have a weapons wheel or hotkeys. I realize the limit happened because Halo was a console exclusive, which is part of the reason why shooters are better on PC.

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6 minutes ago, SpitFlame said:

More than 2, that’s for sure. Maybe all the UNSC ones.

Dude, haven’t you ever played a shooter where you could carry many weapons? Doom, BioShock, etc. You have a weapons wheel or hotkeys. I realize the limit happened because Halo was a console exclusive, which is part of the reason why shooters are better on PC.

Well, a controller doesn’t have enough buttons for hotkeys and a weapon wheel is pretty clunky for a game with Halo’s pace.  That all you got?  

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14 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Well, a controller doesn’t have enough buttons for hotkeys and a weapon wheel is pretty clunky for a game with Halo’s pace.  That all you got?  

Halo Infinite is on PC so hotkeys would work there. As for consoles, why wouldn’t a weapon wheel work? Doom is much faster paced and it had a wheel for the console version.

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4 minutes ago, SpitFlame said:

for consoles, why wouldn’t a weapon wheel work?

Could you YY with a weapon wheel?  

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Could you YY with a weapon wheel?  

As in cancelling a reload? Sure, I don’t see why not. Could be that you activate the wheel by holding down the Y button.

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1 minute ago, SpitFlame said:

As in cancelling a reload? Sure, I don’t see why not. Could be that you activate the wheel by holding down the Y button.

The noob combo works because switching weapons is fast and seamless.  How do you think a weapon wheel would affect weapon sets like the noob combo?  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

The noob combo works because switching weapons is fast and seamless.  How do you think a weapon wheel would affect weapon sets like the noob combo?  

salvation.jpg

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How do you think allowing players to carry all the weapons would affect individual weapon design and overall sandbox balance?  Is a utility weapon even necessary anymore when players can carry a unique weapon for every specific circumstance?  

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On 6/25/2020 at 6:04 PM, MaceX42 said:

Destiny and the Titianfall games allow you to hold three weapons. Press Y to switch to secondary, hold Y to switch to anti-titan or special weapon. 
 

Weapons hurting players if used improperly is a great way to balance easy to use weapons like the plasma pistol and rocket launcher. Maybe the Storm Rifle could damage you if you let it overheat, we all know that weapon needs rebalancing. 

I have thought about the 3 weapons idea before, where holding Y would pull out your Magnum which would be your main utility and the only weapon that you cannot drop, I like the idea of always having a utility weapon intrinsically tied to your character, I mean it is called the utility weapon and it being a Magnum makes it intuitive and low profile instead of a giant rifle tied to you at all times, but that's about as far as I would go when it comes to the possibility of adding more weapon slots to Halo, I think anything more than that and you start to blur the lines of what is appropriate for Halo and what makes it the way it is, you might as well go all out and add 8 weapon slots if you're going anything beyond what I suggested.

I've also thought about the weapon overheating causing damage as you mentioned, it would be a trade off where either the Storm/Plasma Rifle or Repeater would allow you to carry on firing after it has overheated, the overheated shots would glow red and deal more damage but the trade off is that it drains your shields. Hypothetically this could even be combined with an OS to make the weapon a semi-power weapon, OS gives you more shield so would allow you to use the overheated shots for longer and put out a ton of damage, but that would be entirely up to you whether you want to burn your OS in exchange for more damage. Maybe also make it so you have to hold the reload button to dissipate heat from the gun manually instead of it being automatic, this way you can build up heat and it gives the player a bit more control and choice in how they decide to use this weapon.

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